Virginia...has more guns now....less gun crime, even with the latest shooting.

[JimBowie1958]

And for at least the 20th time, murder rates have been dropping everywhere. In places with massive gun sale increases. And places without it. When your 'effect' exists regardless of the presence of your 'cause', your 'cause' isn't.

And for the millionth time, you puke up another bullshit lie. Murders are going UP in Baltimore, New York, LA and Shitcago.

"Milwaukee, which last year had one of its lowest annual homicide totals in city history, recorded 84 murders so far this year, more than double the 41 it tallied at the same point last year....
The number of murders in 2015 jumped by 33% or more in Baltimore, New Orleans and St. Louis. Meanwhile, in Chicago, the nation's third-largest city, the homicide toll climbed 19% and the number of shooting incidents increased by 21% during the first half of the year.

In all the cities, the increased violence is disproportionately impacting poor and predominantly African-American and Latino neighborhoods."

Several big U.S. cities see homicide rates surge

But that doesn't really matter to you since they are minority neighborhoods, and most of the murders committed by Dimbocrat aligned criminal gangs and narcotics dealers.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Again, we're discussing states.

Ah. Cherry picking your information to prove your claim. Nice.

And by 'cherry picking', you mean discussing the topic of the thread? For crying out loud, a State name is in the title.

Keep running.

On the national level, your claim is disproven; only you can tell us why you refuse to understand this.

By abandoning the topic of the thread, you've conceded that I'm right. That on the State level, more guns don't result in less crime. As many of the States with more gun ownership have higher crime rates.

And once again, you don't even disagree with me.

Wise that. As we both know I'm right.

And you spin and twist even more lies. MOST cities have low murder rates, not higher murder rates because they can afford more patrolling at greater efficiency.

The only reason these cities are seeing crime in general going and murder in particular is BECAUSE THEY ARE RUN BY DEMOCRATS.

 

[Skylar]

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.
And,,. it doesn't.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide. You've already conceded the mechanism for that higher suicide rate: the greater lethality of guns.

But tell us again how a successful suicide attempt isn't committing suicide. Its fun watching you chase your own tail.

 

[Skylar]

Who said it wasn't possible?

You.
More guns = more gun violence.

And I've backed that up, citing state after State with higher than average gun ownership rates.....and higher than average violent crime.

And states with lower than average gun ownership rates and lower violent crime.

Still need that link to your stats…..

Are you saying that Alaska doesn't have a high gun ownership rate? Or that it doesn't have a high per capita crime rate?

You know why Alaska has a lot of crime….criminals go to Alaska to get away from the police…..

How about south Carolina? Tennessee? Louisiana? Nevada? There's only so many excuses you can offer before you become the spokesman for confirmation bias.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Lets see the source of your bullshit statistics and see what they really say specifically.

 

[M14 Shooter]

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.
And,,. it doesn't.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.

Presence in the house means higher risk

Presence in the house is not use in an attempt.
All of your supporting information deals with efficacy of use in an actual attempt.
None of your information supports anything dealing with presence in the house and the probability of use.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You.
More guns = more gun violence.

And I've backed that up, citing state after State with higher than average gun ownership rates.....and higher than average violent crime.

And states with lower than average gun ownership rates and lower violent crime.

Still need that link to your stats…..

Are you saying that Alaska doesn't have a high gun ownership rate? Or that it doesn't have a high per capita crime rate?

You know why Alaska has a lot of crime….criminals go to Alaska to get away from the police…..

How about south Carolina? Tennessee? Louisiana? Nevada? There's only so many excuses you can offer before you become the spokesman for confirmation bias.

Those are high density of low income minority populations and so the crime rates tend to be much higher, but still lower than Baltimore.

 

[Skylar]

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.
And,,. it doesn't.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.

Presence in the house means higher risk

Presence in the house is not use in an attempt.

Presence in the house increases the odds of committing suicide. As you can't rightly kill yourself with a gun if you don't have access to one.

And you've already admitted how much more lethal fire arms are than other most common methods of suicide.

All of your supporting information deals with efficacy of use in an actual attempt.

And once again, you concede the entire argument. As you've just admitted to the mechanism that results in double the suicide rate when there is a gun in the home: the dramatically higher lethality of fire arms in comparison to most other methods of suicide.

You're still stick arguing that a successful suicide attempt isn't committing suicide. And its just as silly this time as last. You're agreeing with me. As we both know I'm right.

Having a gun in the home doubles the odds that member of your household will commit suicide.

 

[Skylar]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Causation has already been conceded. Even M14 has admitted that guns make a suicide attempt far more likely to succeed.

Suicide attempts succeed less than 5% of the time on average. Use a gun, and it jumps to more than 90%.

There's your causation.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Presence in the house increases the odds of committing suicide.

Nothing you have posed supports this claim, which was that presence increased the probability by 100%

And once again, you concede the entire argument. As you've just admitted to the mechanism that results in double the suicide rate when there is a gun in the home

This is a lie; nothing I said states any such thing.
I agreed that the use of a gun dramatically increases the success rate of a suicide attempt; this in no way supports the claim that presence of a gun in a home increases the probability by 100%

Presence in the house is not use in an attempt.
All of your supporting information deals with efficacy of use in an actual attempt.
None of your information supports anything dealing with presence in the house and the probability of use.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.... and you know it.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Causation has already been conceded.

Oh look - a lie.

 

[Missourian]

Now, where are the firearm homicides concentrated in Arkansas? Little Rock and West Memphis.

And? That doesn't change the fact that your theory just shattered again. And the violent crime rate in Arkansas is one of the worst in the country.

You're literally ignoring every example of your theory breaking. And then pretending that they don't exist.

Um, have you ever heard of confirmation bias? Because you're its poster child.

Alaska is an outlier, why they are the way they are would take a lot of research to explain.

Bulllshit. You're are literally ignoring any example where your theory breaks. South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Alaska, Louisiana, Nevada, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Michigan, Missouri.....all with higher than average gun ownership rates. All with higher than average violent crime rates.

Are they ALL outliers too? How many contradictions to your theory do I have to show you before you realize your theory is a steaming pile of horseshit? There are only 50 States. and already 10 of them don't match your bullshit claims.

And I can do this from the other side too. New Jersey, one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the nation. And only 260 violent crimes per 100,000 compared to a national average of 386. Hawaii.....the lowest gun ownership rate in the nation. And the second lowest violent crime rate in the country. Conneticut.....one of the lowest gun ownership rates, yet only 283, more than 100 below the average.New Hampshire barely breaks 30% on gun ownership. Yet has a violent crime rate of 188.

Your theory is shit.

And the District of Columbia, Maryland, Delaware, Michigan and Florida all have lower than average gun ownership, and HIGHER gun murders than Arkansas.

While conversely, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, and the aforementioned Wyoming have the highest gun ownership in the country...every one above 50% gun ownership...and all but Montana had the TOTAL firearm homicides in the single digits...Montana, the highest, had 12 total firearm murders.

And as for Alaska? Alaska had 19 total firearm homicides...with a firearm ownership rate of 57%.

And Alaska has a LOWER firearm murder rate than New Jersey, Illinois and California, with a gun ownership rate of 12.3%, 20.2% and 21.3% respectively.

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So much for more guns, more gun murders. Totally debunked.

 

[2aguy]

And so, why has the number of gun related murders dropped while the number of guns has increased?

The violent crime rate in many States with high gun ownership rates has remained high in comparison to the national average. And in comparison to many States that have lower gun ownership rates.

In other words,,.,. you cannot explain why, on a national level, more guns does not mean more gun crime.
Thank you.

In other words, my point that many states with the highest gun ownership rates have higher crime rates remains unconstested. Do you realize how many points I've made that you don't even disagree with?

Apparently, you refuse to understand that the figures on the national level disprove your claim, that "the more guns, the more gun violence."
Unless, of course, you can explain how your claim is sound, even though the national numbers disprove it.

Again, we're discussing states. And many of the States with the highest violence crime rates have the highest gun ownership levels. If more guns mean less crime, why are so many states with higher than average gun ownership rates suffering higher than average violent crime?

And for at least the 20th time, murder rates have been dropping everywhere. In places with massive gun sale increases. And places without it. When your 'effect' exists regardless of the presence of your 'cause', your 'cause' isn't.

And for the millionth time, you puke up another bullshit lie. Murders are going UP in Baltimore, New York, LA and Shitcago.

"Milwaukee, which last year had one of its lowest annual homicide totals in city history, recorded 84 murders so far this year, more than double the 41 it tallied at the same point last year....
The number of murders in 2015 jumped by 33% or more in Baltimore, New Orleans and St. Louis. Meanwhile, in Chicago, the nation's third-largest city, the homicide toll climbed 19% and the number of shooting incidents increased by 21% during the first half of the year.

In all the cities, the increased violence is disproportionately impacting poor and predominantly African-American and Latino neighborhoods."

Several big U.S. cities see homicide rates surge

But that doesn't really matter to you since they are minority neighborhoods, and most of the murders committed by Dimbocrat aligned criminal gangs and narcotics dealers.

Millwaukee is is a city that also is short on cops.

 

[2aguy]

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.
And,,. it doesn't.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

.While my claim remains gloriously accurate and uncontested:
Having a gun in the home doubles the odds of someone in your household committing suicide.

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide. You've already conceded the mechanism for that higher suicide rate: the greater lethality of guns.

But tell us again how a successful suicide attempt isn't committing suicide. Its fun watching you chase your own tail.

Sorry, not shown. You have to show that homes where there were no underlying mental health issues, who also had guns in the home also had more suicides.

 

[2aguy]

Now, where are the firearm homicides concentrated in Arkansas? Little Rock and West Memphis.

And? That doesn't change the fact that your theory just shattered again. And the violent crime rate in Arkansas is one of the worst in the country.

You're literally ignoring every example of your theory breaking. And then pretending that they don't exist.

Um, have you ever heard of confirmation bias? Because you're its poster child.

Alaska is an outlier, why they are the way they are would take a lot of research to explain.

Bulllshit. You're are literally ignoring any example where your theory breaks. South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Alaska, Louisiana, Nevada, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Michigan, Missouri.....all with higher than average gun ownership rates. All with higher than average violent crime rates.

Are they ALL outliers too? How many contradictions to your theory do I have to show you before you realize your theory is a steaming pile of horseshit? There are only 50 States. and already 10 of them don't match your bullshit claims.

And I can do this from the other side too. New Jersey, one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the nation. And only 260 violent crimes per 100,000 compared to a national average of 386. Hawaii.....the lowest gun ownership rate in the nation. And the second lowest violent crime rate in the country. Conneticut.....one of the lowest gun ownership rates, yet only 283, more than 100 below the average.New Hampshire barely breaks 30% on gun ownership. Yet has a violent crime rate of 188.

Your theory is shit.

And the District of Columbia, Maryland, Delaware, Michigan and Florida all have lower than average gun ownership, and HIGHER gun murders than Arkansas.

While conversely, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, and the aforementioned Wyoming have the highest gun ownership in the country...every one above 50% gun ownership...and all but Montana had the TOTAL firearm homicides in the single digits...Montana, the highest, had 12 total firearm murders.

And as for Alaska? Alaska had 19 total firearm homicides...with a firearm ownership rate of 57%.

And Alaska has a LOWER firearm murder rate than New Jersey, Illinois and California, with a gun ownership rate of 12.3%, 20.2% and 21.3% respectively.

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So much for more guns, more gun murders. Totally debunked.

Thanks….the anti gun extremists throw out claims….and then we have to go through state by state and pull out the data that shows their claim is wrong, if not a complete lie. I have done this before and it gets old. Thanks for the effort.

 

[2aguy]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Causation has already been conceded. Even M14 has admitted that guns make a suicide attempt far more likely to succeed.

Suicide attempts succeed less than 5% of the time on average. Use a gun, and it jumps to more than 90%.

There's your causation.

Except in Japan, China, and South Korea, where the presence of cleaning products, rope and trains, as well as tall buildings make a suicide attempt far more likely to succeed…right?

 

[2aguy]

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.
And,,. it doesn't.
So... Nothing you have posted supports your claim.

Parsing your petulant pedantry aside:
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.
OK. And...?

Nothing you have posted supports this.

]
Of course it does.

Only if presence in the house = use in an attempt.

Presence in the house means higher risk

Presence in the house is not use in an attempt.

Presence in the house increases the odds of committing suicide. As you can't rightly kill yourself with a gun if you don't have access to one.

And you've already admitted how much more lethal fire arms are than other most common methods of suicide.

All of your supporting information deals with efficacy of use in an actual attempt.

And once again, you concede the entire argument. As you've just admitted to the mechanism that results in double the suicide rate when there is a gun in the home: the dramatically higher lethality of fire arms in comparison to most other methods of suicide.

You're still stick arguing that a successful suicide attempt isn't committing suicide. And its just as silly this time as last. You're agreeing with me. As we both know I'm right.

Having a gun in the home doubles the odds that member of your household will commit suicide.

Presence in the house increases the odds of committing suicide.

No, you are wrong. The gun has no effect on the desire to commit suicide, that is a mental health, drug use and alcohol abuse issue. Again, you have to show that in normal homes, with no history of mental health issues, drug use or alcohol abuse that a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Causation has already been conceded. Even M14 has admitted that guns make a suicide attempt far more likely to succeed.

Suicide attempts succeed less than 5% of the time on average. Use a gun, and it jumps to more than 90%.

There's your causation.

Using a gun simply shows more determination to end ones life and without as much pain. Shooting through the spinal cord just below the neck is a quick and relatively painless death. Men seem to prefer it for some reason, while women prefer sleeping pills. People who could use a gun and don't aren't male or aren't serious.

Taking away guns wont make it any harder to commit suicide ,but the methods will vary much more.

So that is not causation, it is just a more reliable means.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Presence in the house means higher risk. Doubling the odds of someone in that household committing suicide.
Using a gun makes it more likely someone will succeed in committing suicide.

Corelation does not prove causation, dumbass.

Causation has already been conceded.

Oh look - a lie.

Why do you seem surprised? He is a gun grabbing fascist Dimbocrat, so of course he lies.

Just like the rest of that 'party'/criminal syndicate "I did not have sex with that woman" "You can keep your doctor" "I never received any classified emails while I was Secretary of State", etc, etc, etc....

 

[JimBowie1958]

Millwaukee is is a city that also is short on cops.

Not exactly surprising, is it?