Voting Machines are corrupting our elections.

[CultureCitizen]

I imagine it can happen. It doesn't take too much time, and again, there are trillions of dollars at stake.

Worse case scenario would be a government official rigging the machines beforehand.

Regardless, Diebold machines are not, by far ,unhackable.

It's FAR easier to just swap out paper ballots - or simply report fraudulent counts.

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What difference doe it make ? All the candidates are corrupt too.

non responsive

 

[Uncensored2008]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The problem is not so much with the machines as it is with the operators. Little old ladies in Depends diapers who don't even know how to make their home answering machine work are operating state-of-the-art computers upon which our democracy rests.

Lack of training. Incompetence. That's the root of the problem. Not corruption.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Ours are scanning machines. The ballot has ovals in which the voter must color in the entire oval( think standardized tests) if not, the vote does not count because the scanner ignores it. The instructions are in plain English on the ballot.

 

[Bush92]

The problem is not so much with the machines as it is with the operators. Little old ladies in Depends diapers who don't even know how to make their home answering machine work are operating state-of-the-art computers upon which our democracy rests.

Lack of training. Incompetence. That's the root of the problem. Not corruption.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Ours are scanning machines. The ballot has ovals in which the voter must color in the entire oval( think standardized tests) if not, the vote does not count because the scanner ignores it. The instructions are in plain English on the ballot.

Stress the word "English" in bold.

 

[thereisnospoon]

To pull off the kind of election fraud fantasized by the uninformed would require an army of conspirators. Our politicians can't even keep an Oval Office blowjob a secret. Even the paid professional Watergate conspirators were a posse of clowns.

Manipulating the number of votes cast in a voting district would have to be small scale enough to go undetected. Since the manipulation would have to be small, you would have to select districts which have razor thin margins against your candidate.

You can't know ahead of time with surgical precision which voting districts are going to be so close as to affect a national outcome and thus eligible for undetected manipulation. You also can't just manipulate one or two districts to carry a state. You will have to distort several districts in each target state. So you would have to pull off wide scale fraud across a massive number of districts, nationwide, to ensure certain victory, all while going completely undetected. And this would require a large coordinated effort involving many dozens of people across the entire country who would take their secrets to the grave.

This just can't, and doesn't, happen.

Those people who get caught committing fraud are small time retards. They cast two or three votes in what has to be the most futilely stupid risk ever, which has no chance of changing the outcome of an election.

Why do they do it? Who knows. They are, by definition, stupid and egocentric.

Actually it is much larger a problem that one would think.....There have been elections where the winning candidate had zero chance of winning. One county near here which was using the old punch card type mechanical machines had a fringe candidate win a County Commission seat by a small margin vs a much better financed and popular candidate.
The local and state elections authorities found that not only were machines tampered with, the number of ballot cards did not equal the number of voters that signed in to vote.
The election was thrown out and a new one held. The poll watchers were all replaced...

 

[Seawytch]

Voter ID is step in right direction to prevent fraud in urban areas.

Really? So you can find me 1,000 cases of voter fraud in a single urban area that would have been stopped by a state issued photo I.D.?

Start listing.

ConservativeTruth.org Should We Take Voter Fraud as Seriously as Business Fraud - Mary Mostert - 11-11-02
Why were polls kept open? So same voters could vote over and over again until Carnahan won.

Should, is, did.

Cases...actual cases that would have been stopped by voter ID.

All I posted. Show me cases where voter ID stopped a person from voting? Here is a novel idea...get off your fat fucking welfare deadbeat ass and go to courthouse or DMV and get an ID.

At least 10% of voters do not have the required state issued photo ID. How many voters are you willing to disenfranchise to stop one case of fraud...give me a number.

 

[Seawytch]

I imagine it can happen. It doesn't take too much time, and again, there are trillions of dollars at stake.

Worse case scenario would be a government official rigging the machines beforehand.

Regardless, Diebold machines are not, by far ,unhackable.

It's FAR easier to just swap out paper ballots - or simply report fraudulent counts.

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

 

[dcraelin]

1) How do you ensure the software or PROM was programmed correctly ?

Test it - they are all the same - you know. Seeing how you're a "computer scientist" and all.

2) How do you do that for every single voting machine ?

Since PROM's are encoded from a master, they are exact duplicates.

3) Exactly which model of voting machine has "no networking" and no USB and if so, how do you get the results out of the machine?

The famous Diebold machines democrats attacked - the results are transmitted to the inserted card - which each voter is given.

Virginia voting machines certainly didn't have the specs you mention.
Meet the e-voting machine so easy to hack it will take your breath away Ars Technica

If Virginia actually put out machines using WiFi, their tech people should be fired.

Diebold machines are virtually impossible to hack.

Test it - they are all the same - you know. Seeing how you're a "computer scientist" and all.
You can test one individual machine. Then you have to assume the rest of the machines have the same PROM.
Testing that all the machines have the same PROM is the hard part

The famous Diebold machines democrats attacked - the results are transmitted to the inserted card - which each voter is given.

"The attacks require physical access. This is easy for insiders, who program the machines for an election or install them. And we would argue it's typically not that hard for outsiders. A lot of voting machines are sitting around in the church basement, the elementary school gymnasium or hallway, unattended for a week or two before the election. Usually they have really cheap cabinet locks anyone can pick; sometimes they don't even have locks on them. "

How I Hacked An Electronic Voting Machine Popular Science
Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control - Salon.com

Part of the problem is the techno-jargon itself......most people can understand the procedures surrounding old-fashioned voting......but when you get USB and PROM, WIFI and all the techno crap beyond that & whatever else the fuck, you empower a group of pompous assholes that can baffle with bullshit. Assholes I dont trust.

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Even in the most absurd claims, they had to LITERALLY take them apart and replace the main board. That's not "hacking."

The Diebold machines cannot be hacked.

Fear not, they won't stop the election fraud you depending on, you'll still have your people walking up saying "si, me nombre es Henry Chang" and voting...

Is that the way it happens in the voting district or precinct that you go vote at?

 

[Seawytch]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

 

[whitehall]

Where, in freaking Australia? I worked in a county electoral board a couple of years ago and I can assure that there are redundant checks and rechecks on every machine and double checks when the returns come in. Outside of a couple of well publicized electronic glitches which were caught by the electoral board there is absolutely no evidence that a single voting machine in the U.S. has ever been intentionally corrupted. That's why electoral boards are staffed by both registered republicans and registered democrats. It 's a myth.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Outside of a couple of well publicized incidences which were caught by the electoral board there is absolutely no evidence that a single voting machine in the U.S. has ever been intentionally corrupted. It 's a myth.

And now , imagine for one moment a particular country was interested in rigging the elections of the USA AND purposefully paying a man in the middle to do some simple task, like changing the PROM or bribing the company that produces the software or the PROM that runs the machines.
Yes , it is unlikely but it is possible AND it takes VERY little effort to make massive changes.

In an election the stakes are so high that the system must be secured against the intrusion of external agents.
Voting machines are the worst idea from the anonymity and security view points.
Take a look at computerphile's video.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

Quoting Tomas' Scott video from computerphile : "Congratulations , you have just invented the world's most expensive pencil".
Minute 3:45

 

[thereisnospoon]

Voter ID is step in right direction to prevent fraud in urban areas.

Really? So you can find me 1,000 cases of voter fraud in a single urban area that would have been stopped by a state issued photo I.D.?

Start listing.

ConservativeTruth.org Should We Take Voter Fraud as Seriously as Business Fraud - Mary Mostert - 11-11-02
Why were polls kept open? So same voters could vote over and over again until Carnahan won.

Should, is, did.

Cases...actual cases that would have been stopped by voter ID.

All I posted. Show me cases where voter ID stopped a person from voting? Here is a novel idea...get off your fat fucking welfare deadbeat ass and go to courthouse or DMV and get an ID.

At least 10% of voters do not have the required state issued photo ID. How many voters are you willing to disenfranchise to stop one case of fraud...give me a number.

"Disenfranchise".....Oh please. Cut the bullshit...
Shit democrats are the biggest culprits of voter disenfranchisement.....All those postage stamp sized House Districts where GOP voters have virtually no say in elections....And states with huge swaths of square mileage of GOP voters only to be knocked out by those in urban areas that vote in virtual unthinking lock step for democrats.....
Don't even go there.
Here's the deal.. if one is too God damned lazy or stupid to obtain a FREE ID then fuck off. They don't deserve to vote.
And don't give me any "But what about" shit.
I find it amazing that these people who claim they cannot get to the place where ID's are distributed but have no problem at all getting to their polling place.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I imagine it can happen. It doesn't take too much time, and again, there are trillions of dollars at stake.

Worse case scenario would be a government official rigging the machines beforehand.

Regardless, Diebold machines are not, by far ,unhackable.

It's FAR easier to just swap out paper ballots - or simply report fraudulent counts.

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

 

[sealybobo]

It's FAR easier to just swap out paper ballots - or simply report fraudulent counts.

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

If it weren't for unions your company would have no reason to not cut your pay in half.

If I'm wrong you're the acception not the norm.

My dad is a retired union worker. Has 2 home $800k great healthcare and a pension. Jealous? Most Americans are. He was a cook. The American dream. Put me and my bro through college and my brothers a VP of a fortune 500 company. Even my bro knows you're a fool.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

If it weren't for unions your company would have no reason to not cut your pay in half.

If I'm wrong you're the acception not the norm.

My dad is a retired union worker. Has 2 home $800k great healthcare and a pension. Jealous? Most Americans are. He was a cook. The American dream. Put me and my bro through college and my brothers a VP of a fortune 500 company. Even my bro knows you're a fool.

Unions? Logic defies your commentary.....Unions are dying. Bad for business. Worse for workers.
Realize this....Unions are businesses. As such, they operate in their own self interest.
An example would be the Harley Davidson plant in York, PA.....The union tried to extort more for the members despite the market busting cost of labor which cause HD to price their products above the income levels of most Americans. The company told the union there was no room for the union's demands.....The union walked and the plant closed.
Another is the Stella D'Oro bakery in the Bronx, NY. For years the company and the union went round and round. Finally, the union got a judge to rule on a suit in favor of the workers. Stella D'Oro warned that if the labor costs went up, the plant would close. The union refused to accept terms that would benefit both the company and the workers. The union dug in its heels. Leadership convinced the workers that the union was acting in the worker's interests.
The company closed the plant. So instead of the workers getting a small raise and maintaining benefits and being able to keep working, they got nothing....As for my wages. HA!......I EARN my salary plus commission. No need for some Mook to represent me...
Oh, did you really consult with your brother before you posted? And he told you what to post ( you're a fool)?....
Right. I believe you....
Now we have this SEIU crowd who pretend to be a union but are just anti business activists running around telling fast food workers they are getting fifteen bucks an hour.....Funny how these poor people can be so easily led.
Anyway, you can kneel at the union altar and pray to them for any success you may have. I have the satisfaction of knowing that my accomplishments are my own.
BTW, you libs snipe at those who have wealth. calling them greedy..
You are worse. You posted "Union too motherfucker...Suck it.....Translation.. Screw you. I got mine......
Hypocrite......

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

If it weren't for unions your company would have no reason to not cut your pay in half.

If I'm wrong you're the acception not the norm.

My dad is a retired union worker. Has 2 home $800k great healthcare and a pension. Jealous? Most Americans are. He was a cook. The American dream. Put me and my bro through college and my brothers a VP of a fortune 500 company. Even my bro knows you're a fool.

Unions? Logic defies your commentary.....Unions are dying. Bad for business. Worse for workers.
Realize this....Unions are businesses. As such, they operate in their own self interest.
An example would be the Harley Davidson plant in York, PA.....The union tried to extort more for the members despite the market busting cost of labor which cause HD to price their products above the income levels of most Americans. The company told the union there was no room for the union's demands.....The union walked and the plant closed.
Another is the Stella D'Oro bakery in the Bronx, NY. For years the company and the union went round and round. Finally, the union got a judge to rule on a suit in favor of the workers. Stella D'Oro warned that if the labor costs went up, the plant would close. The union refused to accept terms that would benefit both the company and the workers. The union dug in its heels. Leadership convinced the workers that the union was acting in the worker's interests.
The company closed the plant. So instead of the workers getting a small raise and maintaining benefits and being able to keep working, they got nothing....As for my wages. HA!......I EARN my salary plus commission. No need for some Mook to represent me...
Oh, did you really consult with your brother before you posted? And he told you what to post ( you're a fool)?....
Right. I believe you....
Now we have this SEIU crowd who pretend to be a union but are just anti business activists running around telling fast food workers they are getting fifteen bucks an hour.....Funny how these poor people can be so easily led.
Anyway, you can kneel at the union altar and pray to them for any success you may have. I have the satisfaction of knowing that my accomplishments are my own.
BTW, you libs snipe at those who have wealth. calling them greedy..
You are worse. You posted "Union too motherfucker...Suck it.....Translation.. Screw you. I got mine......
Hypocrite......

I tried to read your post but two times I only got two sentences in you are an ignorant American who knows nothing about the world. Now I will try and suffer through your post or the rest of it