Voting Machines are corrupting our elections.

[sealybobo]

F****** stupid Americans around the world unions are protecting workers of other countries meanwhile the birthplace of unions unions are being destroyed and wages are going down and you right wing fools are complaining at the same time you like lower wages for everybody but you greedy bastards

 

[sealybobo]

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

If it weren't for unions your company would have no reason to not cut your pay in half.

If I'm wrong you're the acception not the norm.

My dad is a retired union worker. Has 2 home $800k great healthcare and a pension. Jealous? Most Americans are. He was a cook. The American dream. Put me and my bro through college and my brothers a VP of a fortune 500 company. Even my bro knows you're a fool.

Unions? Logic defies your commentary.....Unions are dying. Bad for business. Worse for workers.
Realize this....Unions are businesses. As such, they operate in their own self interest.
An example would be the Harley Davidson plant in York, PA.....The union tried to extort more for the members despite the market busting cost of labor which cause HD to price their products above the income levels of most Americans. The company told the union there was no room for the union's demands.....The union walked and the plant closed.
Another is the Stella D'Oro bakery in the Bronx, NY. For years the company and the union went round and round. Finally, the union got a judge to rule on a suit in favor of the workers. Stella D'Oro warned that if the labor costs went up, the plant would close. The union refused to accept terms that would benefit both the company and the workers. The union dug in its heels. Leadership convinced the workers that the union was acting in the worker's interests.
The company closed the plant. So instead of the workers getting a small raise and maintaining benefits and being able to keep working, they got nothing....As for my wages. HA!......I EARN my salary plus commission. No need for some Mook to represent me...
Oh, did you really consult with your brother before you posted? And he told you what to post ( you're a fool)?....
Right. I believe you....
Now we have this SEIU crowd who pretend to be a union but are just anti business activists running around telling fast food workers they are getting fifteen bucks an hour.....Funny how these poor people can be so easily led.
Anyway, you can kneel at the union altar and pray to them for any success you may have. I have the satisfaction of knowing that my accomplishments are my own.
BTW, you libs snipe at those who have wealth. calling them greedy..
You are worse. You posted "Union too motherfucker...Suck it.....Translation.. Screw you. I got mine......
Hypocrite......

No I can't read the rest of your post it is steeped in ignorance and I can't stand it. There's so much you don't know and I have no time to explain it all to you

 

[dcraelin]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

 

[Seawytch]

Really? So you can find me 1,000 cases of voter fraud in a single urban area that would have been stopped by a state issued photo I.D.?

Start listing.

ConservativeTruth.org Should We Take Voter Fraud as Seriously as Business Fraud - Mary Mostert - 11-11-02
Why were polls kept open? So same voters could vote over and over again until Carnahan won.

Should, is, did.

Cases...actual cases that would have been stopped by voter ID.

All I posted. Show me cases where voter ID stopped a person from voting? Here is a novel idea...get off your fat fucking welfare deadbeat ass and go to courthouse or DMV and get an ID.

At least 10% of voters do not have the required state issued photo ID. How many voters are you willing to disenfranchise to stop one case of fraud...give me a number.

"Disenfranchise".....Oh please. Cut the bullshit...
Shit democrats are the biggest culprits of voter disenfranchisement.....All those postage stamp sized House Districts where GOP voters have virtually no say in elections....And states with huge swaths of square mileage of GOP voters only to be knocked out by those in urban areas that vote in virtual unthinking lock step for democrats.....
Don't even go there.
Here's the deal.. if one is too God damned lazy or stupid to obtain a FREE ID then fuck off. They don't deserve to vote.
And don't give me any "But what about" shit.
I find it amazing that these people who claim they cannot get to the place where ID's are distributed but have no problem at all getting to their polling place.

So we're jumping from Voting Machines and IDs to redistricting? Okay...

The majority of the most horribly gerrymandered districts are Republican.

Top 10 Gerrymandered Districts

And just like with Voting Machines requiring a paper trail, required logic and accuracy testing and a required post election manual audit of the paper trail, California's citizens redistricting committees can keep anything untoward from happening.

Not everyone can get your free ID. People who live more than 10 miles from a DMV have a difficult time. Poor people who can't get the time off to wait in line at the DMV. People who don't have their original birth certificate.

I'm not opposed to voter ID...when it disenfranchises fewer people than incidents of fraud that it stops.

 

[Seawytch]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

 

[sealybobo]

ConservativeTruth.org Should We Take Voter Fraud as Seriously as Business Fraud - Mary Mostert - 11-11-02
Why were polls kept open? So same voters could vote over and over again until Carnahan won.

Should, is, did.

Cases...actual cases that would have been stopped by voter ID.

All I posted. Show me cases where voter ID stopped a person from voting? Here is a novel idea...get off your fat fucking welfare deadbeat ass and go to courthouse or DMV and get an ID.

At least 10% of voters do not have the required state issued photo ID. How many voters are you willing to disenfranchise to stop one case of fraud...give me a number.

"Disenfranchise".....Oh please. Cut the bullshit...
Shit democrats are the biggest culprits of voter disenfranchisement.....All those postage stamp sized House Districts where GOP voters have virtually no say in elections....And states with huge swaths of square mileage of GOP voters only to be knocked out by those in urban areas that vote in virtual unthinking lock step for democrats.....
Don't even go there.
Here's the deal.. if one is too God damned lazy or stupid to obtain a FREE ID then fuck off. They don't deserve to vote.
And don't give me any "But what about" shit.
I find it amazing that these people who claim they cannot get to the place where ID's are distributed but have no problem at all getting to their polling place.

So we're jumping from Voting Machines and IDs to redistricting? Okay...

The majority of the most horribly gerrymandered districts are Republican.

Top 10 Gerrymandered Districts

And just like with Voting Machines requiring a paper trail, required logic and accuracy testing and a required post election manual audit of the paper trail, California's citizens redistricting committees can keep anything untoward from happening.

Not everyone can get your free ID. People who live more than 10 miles from a DMV have a difficult time. Poor people who can't get the time off to wait in line at the DMV. People who don't have their original birth certificate.

I'm not opposed to voter ID...when it disenfranchises fewer people than incidents of fraud that it stops.

Most people who can vote just don't. Stupid americans

 

[DonaldFG]

Voting machines have not stopped dead people from voting..

Slowly but surely they've taking over everything the media in 1997, tax breaks for the rich. They control everything and that includes you

They being the military-industrial complex. The industrial part includes all big corporations and the Federal Reserve.

 

[DonaldFG]

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

How can anyone even tell if there were no problems? Rigging is so easy.

 

[DonaldFG]

Ours are scanning machines. The ballot has ovals in which the voter must color in the entire oval( think standardized tests) if not, the vote does not count because the scanner ignores it. The instructions are in plain English on the ballot.

That's better then the current touch-screen machines. You are lucky.

 

[DonaldFG]

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

There are paper trails, and paper trails. Not all are verifiable. The type in my original post are verifiable.

 

[DonaldFG]

Where, in freaking Australia? I worked in a county electoral board a couple of years ago and I can assure that there are redundant checks and rechecks on every machine and double checks when the returns come in. Outside of a couple of well publicized electronic glitches which were caught by the electoral board there is absolutely no evidence that a single voting machine in the U.S. has ever been intentionally corrupted. That's why electoral boards are staffed by both registered republicans and registered democrats. It 's a myth.

You think? Check out the following:
The Evidence - Computerized Election Fraud in America

 

[Seawytch]

Anyone who defends electronic voting machine likes it that they can be rigged.

I don't trust any private company with my vote. The last thing we should have privatized.

Hmmmmm....or I've worked with them for 10 years without any problems.

How can anyone even tell if there were no problems? Rigging is so easy.

Nope. If the proper safeguards are in place it is not easy. I've worked extensively with the Hart voting system for 10 years without any issues.

 

[dcraelin]

Both scenarios are not so easy because poll watchers can oversee the whole process.
Yes , you can swap one ballot, but as the number of fraudulent ballot increases the dificulty of performing fraud increases .

One single person in the right place can affect thousands of voting machines and no paper trail will be left to indicate what happened.

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

I think it does

 

[Seawytch]

But the poll watchers wouldn't notice them literally taking the machines apart and swapping out circuit boards?

Really?

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

I think it does

Thinking does not make it so.

You SHOULD be able to vote outside your precinct. Electronic connectivity of registration allows immediate updating as soon as a voter votes.

 

[FJO]

Unless and until voting machines are as reliable as lottery machines, they should be scrapped.

The old way of marking your choice on an official ballot with a pencil and counted by honest people at the end is still the best, fastest and most honest way of determining election results.

 

[FJO]

If I may be so audacious as suggesting that other parts of the world have elections better done than elections in the United States, let me describe what we do here in Canada:

About two months before a federal election every single household is visited by volunteers to confirm the eligibility of that household to vote.The names of eligible voters then go on the list of that is checked for the name appearing on the list in the appropriate voting place. On election day, if the name appears, the person votes, if not he can go to hell.

It is the responsibility of all individuals to assure that they vote in the riding (that is Canadian for precinct) they belong. No early voting except in totally exceptional circumstances. No voting out of your riding unless given proof that you just move there, or you are on business assignment that makes it impossible to vote at home or something similar.

We usually know the election results no more than an hour after the last poll closed.

BTW, most Canadians are puzzled about the presidential primary process.
What gives Iowa and New Hampshire special status?
Why there is no "Super September" two months prior to the election, instead of is several painstaking "Super Tuesdays"?

The way China is holding American debt, America should be careful of spending even one penny frivolously.

Why can't the contenders in all parties resolve their differences without embarrassing and vicious blood letting.
Why does it have to drag on for almost two years?
How the contenders can perform their jobs if they spend most of their time campaigning?
Why don't they resign their current post if they are so confident of winning the higher office for which they aspire?
Why do Americans let the losers back to their posts which they obviously hated enough to spend millions to get away from?

 

[dcraelin]

No , because poll watchers are only present at the election day.
With voting machines you would have to have watchers present since the start of the tests up to the moment in which they are unsealed. Arguably , it can be done , but it is a lot harder than using pen and paper.

Yes, manually counting votes is a tedious repetitive task , but the fact that it leaves a paper trail and it is auditable on every level is what makes it trustworthy. Ballots can be changed , but then the poll books have to be changed also to reflect the change in the ballots.

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

I think it does

Thinking does not make it so.

You SHOULD be able to vote outside your precinct. Electronic connectivity of registration allows immediate updating as soon as a voter votes.

and it screws up one method of checking on the veracity of the polls, counting those going into the precinct and the votes coming out of it. ....United and NYSE show the problems that can arise even just from 'normal' error.

 

[Seawytch]

Voting machines can have paper trails. Most states even require them now.

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

I think it does

Thinking does not make it so.

You SHOULD be able to vote outside your precinct. Electronic connectivity of registration allows immediate updating as soon as a voter votes.

and it screws up one method of checking on the veracity of the polls, counting those going into the precinct and the votes coming out of it. ....United and NYSE show the problems that can arise even just from 'normal' error.

Oh please. We don't need hundreds of little unconnected polling places processing paper ballots and signing paper rosters.

Colorado is the model the country should be following.

 

[dcraelin]

They should, and there should also be random checks of computerized voting results.

Some states are computerizing the voter registration lists and allowing outside precinct voting which I think makes random checks harder.

It doesn't.

I think it does

Thinking does not make it so.

You SHOULD be able to vote outside your precinct. Electronic connectivity of registration allows immediate updating as soon as a voter votes.

and it screws up one method of checking on the veracity of the polls, counting those going into the precinct and the votes coming out of it. ....United and NYSE show the problems that can arise even just from 'normal' error.

Oh please. We don't need hundreds of little unconnected polling places processing paper ballots and signing paper rosters.

Colorado is the model the country should be following.

maybe we do. its a simple way to check integrity, and employees dont have to be tech-savy. the recent government hack getting the names of all federal employees and those that applied is an example of the hazard. Some things shouldn't be "modernized".

Its worked for ages and change should be slow

 

[thereisnospoon]

So your a liberal bureaucrat operating from the inside. Imagine that.

Union too motherfucker...suck it.

You're a union douche? It figures. SUCKER.....
You got some pinky ring wearing Ginzo dipping into your paycheck so they can live in a million dollar house and keep an apartment for their Gumad..
And you get nothing in return....

If it weren't for unions your company would have no reason to not cut your pay in half.

If I'm wrong you're the acception not the norm.

My dad is a retired union worker. Has 2 home $800k great healthcare and a pension. Jealous? Most Americans are. He was a cook. The American dream. Put me and my bro through college and my brothers a VP of a fortune 500 company. Even my bro knows you're a fool.

Unions? Logic defies your commentary.....Unions are dying. Bad for business. Worse for workers.
Realize this....Unions are businesses. As such, they operate in their own self interest.
An example would be the Harley Davidson plant in York, PA.....The union tried to extort more for the members despite the market busting cost of labor which cause HD to price their products above the income levels of most Americans. The company told the union there was no room for the union's demands.....The union walked and the plant closed.
Another is the Stella D'Oro bakery in the Bronx, NY. For years the company and the union went round and round. Finally, the union got a judge to rule on a suit in favor of the workers. Stella D'Oro warned that if the labor costs went up, the plant would close. The union refused to accept terms that would benefit both the company and the workers. The union dug in its heels. Leadership convinced the workers that the union was acting in the worker's interests.
The company closed the plant. So instead of the workers getting a small raise and maintaining benefits and being able to keep working, they got nothing....As for my wages. HA!......I EARN my salary plus commission. No need for some Mook to represent me...
Oh, did you really consult with your brother before you posted? And he told you what to post ( you're a fool)?....
Right. I believe you....
Now we have this SEIU crowd who pretend to be a union but are just anti business activists running around telling fast food workers they are getting fifteen bucks an hour.....Funny how these poor people can be so easily led.
Anyway, you can kneel at the union altar and pray to them for any success you may have. I have the satisfaction of knowing that my accomplishments are my own.
BTW, you libs snipe at those who have wealth. calling them greedy..
You are worse. You posted "Union too motherfucker...Suck it.....Translation.. Screw you. I got mine......
Hypocrite......

I tried to read your post but two times I only got two sentences in you are an ignorant American who knows nothing about the world. Now I will try and suffer through your post or the rest of it

I expected nothing less from a closed minded union thug.
Kitten...I have more knowledge in one thought than you have had in your lifetime.
The fact is your union thuggery has been exposed. Hence the reason why only 7% of the total private sector workforce is union....Nobody wants anything to do with these crooks.
The very idea that you union people call those sessions with employers collective "bargaining" is a laugh riot. For in the past, these meetings were no less than extortion.
The proof is in the very language used by union bosses and the rank and file....."demand"......Who the fuck are you to demand anything?.....Well, unions have worn out their welcome. Western Europe, unionism's last frontier is seeing unions rapidly fall out of popularity.
Every time somebody farts over there, half the country goes on strike. Yesterday it was the London Underground drivers getting their panties in a twist over some new lines going to 24 hour operation. Londoners were generally pissed off because the Underground was not running. That's bullshit..