Walmart on Welfare: We support their employees so they don't have to.

[Andylusion]

Clearly a civil servant mandated minimum living wage is required.

People Before Profits Comrades !!!

Actually, 'People before Profits' sounds like a really honorable creed to me. It's what Jesus would want. America has lost its way. Greed kills. And it's definitely killing America.

That is not what Jesus, or the Bible taught. Not at all.

And although it might sound really 'honorable', in practice, it's a complete failure.

If you run a business, and you put people before profits, you don't have a business anymore. Now all those employees who were making money, are now unemployed. That's better?

And people who live that way with their personal finances, are often completely impoverished.

I had a friend, which I mentioned several times now, from Somalia. They would send all their spare money back to Somalia. Then their car broke down, and guess what... no money to fix it. But people before profits! Right? Can't have them saving up money, and being wealthy no.

So now they can't get to work.

I know women who gave all their money to their kids, and then ended up losing their home. Couldn't pay the mortgage. People before money! Oh but now she's homeless, and can't help anyone.

You know who helps the poor more than any other people group? The rich. Why? Because they focused on profits, and thus have money to help others with. Impoverished people that don't have any profit.... can't help jack squat.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Clearly a civil servant mandated minimum living wage is required.

People Before Profits Comrades !!!

Actually, 'People before Profits' sounds like a really honorable creed to me. It's what Jesus would want. America has lost its way. Greed kills. And it's definitely killing America.

That is not what Jesus, or the Bible taught. Not at all.

And although it might sound really 'honorable', in practice, it's a complete failure.

If you run a business, and you put people before profits, you don't have a business anymore. Now all those employees who were making money, are now unemployed. That's better?

And people who live that way with their personal finances, are often completely impoverished.

I had a friend, which I mentioned several times now, from Somalia. They would send all their spare money back to Somalia. Then their car broke down, and guess what... no money to fix it. But people before profits! Right? Can have them saving up money, and being wealthy no.

So now they can't get to work.

I know women who gave all their money to their kids, and then ended up losing their home. Couldn't pay the mortgage. People before money! Oh but now she's homeless, and can't help anyone.

You know who helps the poor more than any other people group? The rich. Why? Because they focused on profits, and thus have money to help others with. Impoverished people that don't have any profit.... can't help jack squat.

Why are you people on both sides, so black and white?

This isn't a either or proposition. You can both treat your employees well and make a profit, many companies do it everyday.

Wal Mart is neither Evil or Good in this argument, they are don't pay that bad and they don't go out of their way to help employees.

 

[Ava]

Dunce!
If WalMart didnt hire them the taxpayer would be on the hook for their entire subsistence. WalMart subsidizes the state, not the other way around.

That is a fact. And it should not be overlooked that those employees are paying their fair share of federal income taxes.

 

[OKTexas]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

Until this situation is absolutely unique to Wal Mart you fucking idiots need to shut the fuck up!

 

[Andylusion]

I wonder if Redfish is serious when he claimed, "Those on the left want to eliminate that option (shopping at Wal-Mart) and make the poor suffer more than they already do. No one could be that stupid to make such a claim, the post must be sarcasm.

Um... yeah. Look, the only reason people go to Walmart, is because it's cheaper. Cheaper products.... benefits the poor. I said this before. I went to my local store to find a Vaccume sweeper, and found it for $72 or so. I paused, and thought to check walmart first, and found the exact same model, for $46 or so. Exact same product, for almost $30 less. Did that benefit me? Yes.... of course it did.

Additionally, part of the reason prices are as low as they are at others stores... is because they compete with Walmart.

If Walmart was eliminate, now only would you not have lower prices there, but the other stores without that competition, and with the additional demand from former walmart customers, would raise their prices.

The result would be that the poor and impoverished, would have fewer low cost goods to buy, making them more impoverished.

Poverty is as much a function of wage dollar amounts, as it is what they can buy with those dollars. Eliminating low cost goods, makes them more impoverished.

So yes, unless you are one of those completely economically illiterate leftards.... yes without Walmart the poor would be worse off.

 

[Andylusion]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

First off... I'd like to know more about the "Special Low Tax rate on Walmart Dividends claimed by the Walton".

As far as I've been able to find, there is only one Dividend Tax Rate, of 15%, and it's claimed by EVERYONE. *I* claim that dividend tax rate on my dividend payments. Everyone does. IF you have a 401K, or 403B, or an IRA, and you own stock..... YOU CLAIM THAT TAX RATE.

Now if there is some sort of super special, "Walton Only" tax benefit, then that's not a problem of Walmart, that's a problem of bad politicians. Find out who wrote, and voted for that bill, or slipped in that Pork, and let's FIRE their butt.

Second, all those tax breaks.... I don't have problem with that at all. If I was in control, they would pay ZERO in tax.

Which is better... more stores and more jobs, and more cheap products benefiting all of society...... or more Solyndra? More political kick backs to supporters? More Hydrogen Cars, and NextGen Clean Coal projects? Which would you rather have?

You idiots on the left are real quick to talk about how the economy is growing under Obama, and then turn right around an complain bitterly about the exact people growing the economy!

But thirdly.... I question even the source of the information.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

From the article:

"Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce."

An estimate from completely unbiased, pure data from Democrat Staff.... Really?

I have no yet looked at the data, but I do wonder about it.

Nevertheless, I will agree that it is possible that there are billions being given to people from the government.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

I happen to check out SNAP, just for my own humor. I found out something amazing. At least it's amazing to me.

I *almost* qualify for SNAP. That's insane. By any reasonable measure, I am not impoverished. I earn almost double the minimum wage. Not quite, but almost.

Yet according to this outline, I am just $140 a month over the max to qualify.

Why? Because first, my home does not count towards qualifying. My home could be worth $300,000, and SNAP doesn't count your personal residence at all.

I could have a roommate paying me rent, and that does not count as earned income. (even if it did, I could conveniently forget to add that, if I was an immoral person).

My car, doesn't count. I could have a bran new $50,000 Porche, and it wouldn't count at all towards qualifying for SNAP.

My IRA and 401K, which has thousands, could have even MILLIONS in it, and it doesn't count towards qualifying for SNAP.

Additionally, I own thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment, and furniture, and nearly new appliances in my Kitchen, and none of that is counted.

Look at that page again.... Do you see what a family of 4 can earn, and still qualify for food stamps?

According to that page, a family of 4, can earn $20/hr, that's $41,600 a year, and still qualify for SNAP.

A family of 2, can earn $14/hr, which is $30,000 a year, and still qualify for food stamps.

A couple, with 6 kids, could earn $34/hr, or $70,000 a year, and STILL qualify for SNAP.

This is what I'm talking about right here.

Is it possible that Walmart has employees collecting $6.2 Billion? Yes. But it's not Walmarts fault. It's the Federal Government that is giving out billions in welfare to people who don't need it. The Store Management team at the local Walmart, might be collecting Federal handouts, even if they had a Million dollar net worth.

You leftists are to blame for this, not Walmart.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

First off... I'd like to know more about the "Special Low Tax rate on Walmart Dividends claimed by the Walton".

As far as I've been able to find, there is only one Dividend Tax Rate, of 15%, and it's claimed by EVERYONE. *I* claim that dividend tax rate on my dividend payments. Everyone does. IF you have a 401K, or 403B, or an IRA, and you own stock..... YOU CLAIM THAT TAX RATE.

Now if there is some sort of super special, "Walton Only" tax benefit, then that's not a problem of Walmart, that's a problem of bad politicians. Find out who wrote, and voted for that bill, or slipped in that Pork, and let's FIRE their butt.

Second, all those tax breaks.... I don't have problem with that at all. If I was in control, they would pay ZERO in tax.

Which is better... more stores and more jobs, and more cheap products benefiting all of society...... or more Solyndra? More political kick backs to supporters? More Hydrogen Cars, and NextGen Clean Coal projects? Which would you rather have?

You idiots on the left are real quick to talk about how the economy is growing under Obama, and then turn right around an complain bitterly about the exact people growing the economy!

But thirdly.... I question even the source of the information.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

From the article:

"Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce."

An estimate from completely unbiased, pure data from Democrat Staff.... Really?

I have no yet looked at the data, but I do wonder about it.

Nevertheless, I will agree that it is possible that there are billions being given to people from the government.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

I happen to check out SNAP, just for my own humor. I found out something amazing. At least it's amazing to me.

I *almost* qualify for SNAP. That's insane. By any reasonable measure, I am not impoverished. I earn almost double the minimum wage. Not quite, but almost.

Yet according to this outline, I am just $140 a month over the max to qualify.

Why? Because first, my home does not count towards qualifying. My home could be worth $300,000, and SNAP doesn't count your personal residence at all.

I could have a roommate paying me rent, and that does not count as earned income. (even if it did, I could conveniently forget to add that, if I was an immoral person).

My car, doesn't count. I could have a bran new $50,000 Porche, and it wouldn't count at all towards qualifying for SNAP.

My IRA and 401K, which has thousands, could have even MILLIONS in it, and it doesn't count towards qualifying for SNAP.

Additionally, I own thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment, and furniture, and nearly new appliances in my Kitchen, and none of that is counted.

Look at that page again.... Do you see what a family of 4 can earn, and still qualify for food stamps?

According to that page, a family of 4, can earn $20/hr, that's $41,600 a year, and still qualify for SNAP.

A family of 2, can earn $14/hr, which is $30,000 a year, and still qualify for food stamps.

A couple, with 6 kids, could earn $34/hr, or $70,000 a year, and STILL qualify for SNAP.

This is what I'm talking about right here.

Is it possible that Walmart has employees collecting $6.2 Billion? Yes. But it's not Walmarts fault. It's the Federal Government that is giving out billions in welfare to people who don't need it. The Store Management team at the local Walmart, might be collecting Federal handouts, even if they had a Million dollar net worth.

You leftists are to blame for this, not Walmart.

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

 

[bripat9643]

OK conservatives....what is your plan?

30 million American workers need government assistance to survive.

Everyone needs assistance to survive

Who should make up the difference

The Taxpayer or the Employer?

Whoever wants to.

Not sure of what you are talking about

Yes, everyone needs to survive. If they work full time and can't subsist on what they make, who should make up the difference.

Now, you say "whoever wants to"
If we have 30 million people who do not make enough to live on and only 5 million people "want to" help. What happens to the other 25 million?

I don't know. I guess in your view they all just die, right?

It is your proposal

Tell us how you would implement it

There's nothing to "implement". I just answered your question. Who should help people in need? Whoever wants to.

You didn't find my answer satisfying because your question isn't honest. What you're really asking is, "Who should be forced to help people in need?" To that, I'd answer "no one".

Your solution still leaves tens of millions of workers needing government assistance and does nothing to resolve the problem

They only "need" government assistance according to ideologues who feel qualified to determine what everyone needs. 2 billion people in this world survive on less than $2.00/day. IF they can survive, then so can anyone making minimum wage. They aren't required to have cable, a plasma TV, a smart phone and a late model car.

 

[Redfish]

Right winger (sometimes known as Jake Snarkey) thinks every american should be guaranteed an annual income of 100K whether they work or not, whether they have any skills or not, whether they have any education or none.

Said another way, RW and his sock Jake are one idiot using two names.

BTW, he has never denied this.

 

[rightwinger]

OK conservatives....what is your plan?

30 million American workers need government assistance to survive.

Everyone needs assistance to survive

Who should make up the difference

The Taxpayer or the Employer?

Whoever wants to.

Not sure of what you are talking about

Yes, everyone needs to survive. If they work full time and can't subsist on what they make, who should make up the difference.

Now, you say "whoever wants to"
If we have 30 million people who do not make enough to live on and only 5 million people "want to" help. What happens to the other 25 million?

But the entire premise is faulty. In 2011, I earned a taxable income of only $12,000. I still survived. Was it fun? No. But I am still here.

You can survive on minimum wage. Get a second job. Two minimum wage jobs, is $31,000 a year. You can survive on that.

There are 30 million workers who need government assistance to survive

Can you point out 30 million second jobs they can take?

 

[bripat9643]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

First off... I'd like to know more about the "Special Low Tax rate on Walmart Dividends claimed by the Walton".

As far as I've been able to find, there is only one Dividend Tax Rate, of 15%, and it's claimed by EVERYONE. *I* claim that dividend tax rate on my dividend payments. Everyone does. IF you have a 401K, or 403B, or an IRA, and you own stock..... YOU CLAIM THAT TAX RATE.

Now if there is some sort of super special, "Walton Only" tax benefit, then that's not a problem of Walmart, that's a problem of bad politicians. Find out who wrote, and voted for that bill, or slipped in that Pork, and let's FIRE their butt.

Second, all those tax breaks.... I don't have problem with that at all. If I was in control, they would pay ZERO in tax.

Which is better... more stores and more jobs, and more cheap products benefiting all of society...... or more Solyndra? More political kick backs to supporters? More Hydrogen Cars, and NextGen Clean Coal projects? Which would you rather have?

You idiots on the left are real quick to talk about how the economy is growing under Obama, and then turn right around an complain bitterly about the exact people growing the economy!

But thirdly.... I question even the source of the information.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

From the article:

"Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce."

An estimate from completely unbiased, pure data from Democrat Staff.... Really?

I have no yet looked at the data, but I do wonder about it.

Nevertheless, I will agree that it is possible that there are billions being given to people from the government.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

I happen to check out SNAP, just for my own humor. I found out something amazing. At least it's amazing to me.

I *almost* qualify for SNAP. That's insane. By any reasonable measure, I am not impoverished. I earn almost double the minimum wage. Not quite, but almost.

Yet according to this outline, I am just $140 a month over the max to qualify.

Why? Because first, my home does not count towards qualifying. My home could be worth $300,000, and SNAP doesn't count your personal residence at all.

I could have a roommate paying me rent, and that does not count as earned income. (even if it did, I could conveniently forget to add that, if I was an immoral person).

My car, doesn't count. I could have a bran new $50,000 Porche, and it wouldn't count at all towards qualifying for SNAP.

My IRA and 401K, which has thousands, could have even MILLIONS in it, and it doesn't count towards qualifying for SNAP.

Additionally, I own thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment, and furniture, and nearly new appliances in my Kitchen, and none of that is counted.

Look at that page again.... Do you see what a family of 4 can earn, and still qualify for food stamps?

According to that page, a family of 4, can earn $20/hr, that's $41,600 a year, and still qualify for SNAP.

A family of 2, can earn $14/hr, which is $30,000 a year, and still qualify for food stamps.

A couple, with 6 kids, could earn $34/hr, or $70,000 a year, and STILL qualify for SNAP.

This is what I'm talking about right here.

Is it possible that Walmart has employees collecting $6.2 Billion? Yes. But it's not Walmarts fault. It's the Federal Government that is giving out billions in welfare to people who don't need it. The Store Management team at the local Walmart, might be collecting Federal handouts, even if they had a Million dollar net worth.

You leftists are to blame for this, not Walmart.

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

Abolish Welfare.
Abolish SNAP.
Abolish the minimum wage.

 

[bripat9643]

But the entire premise is faulty. In 2011, I earned a taxable income of only $12,000. I still survived. Was it fun? No. But I am still here.

You can survive on minimum wage. Get a second job. Two minimum wage jobs, is $31,000 a year. You can survive on that.

There are 30 million workers who need government assistance to survive

Can you point out 30 million second jobs they can take?

They don't need government assistance to survive.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

First off... I'd like to know more about the "Special Low Tax rate on Walmart Dividends claimed by the Walton".

As far as I've been able to find, there is only one Dividend Tax Rate, of 15%, and it's claimed by EVERYONE. *I* claim that dividend tax rate on my dividend payments. Everyone does. IF you have a 401K, or 403B, or an IRA, and you own stock..... YOU CLAIM THAT TAX RATE.

Now if there is some sort of super special, "Walton Only" tax benefit, then that's not a problem of Walmart, that's a problem of bad politicians. Find out who wrote, and voted for that bill, or slipped in that Pork, and let's FIRE their butt.

Second, all those tax breaks.... I don't have problem with that at all. If I was in control, they would pay ZERO in tax.

Which is better... more stores and more jobs, and more cheap products benefiting all of society...... or more Solyndra? More political kick backs to supporters? More Hydrogen Cars, and NextGen Clean Coal projects? Which would you rather have?

You idiots on the left are real quick to talk about how the economy is growing under Obama, and then turn right around an complain bitterly about the exact people growing the economy!

But thirdly.... I question even the source of the information.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

From the article:

"Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce."

An estimate from completely unbiased, pure data from Democrat Staff.... Really?

I have no yet looked at the data, but I do wonder about it.

Nevertheless, I will agree that it is possible that there are billions being given to people from the government.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

I happen to check out SNAP, just for my own humor. I found out something amazing. At least it's amazing to me.

I *almost* qualify for SNAP. That's insane. By any reasonable measure, I am not impoverished. I earn almost double the minimum wage. Not quite, but almost.

Yet according to this outline, I am just $140 a month over the max to qualify.

Why? Because first, my home does not count towards qualifying. My home could be worth $300,000, and SNAP doesn't count your personal residence at all.

I could have a roommate paying me rent, and that does not count as earned income. (even if it did, I could conveniently forget to add that, if I was an immoral person).

My car, doesn't count. I could have a bran new $50,000 Porche, and it wouldn't count at all towards qualifying for SNAP.

My IRA and 401K, which has thousands, could have even MILLIONS in it, and it doesn't count towards qualifying for SNAP.

Additionally, I own thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment, and furniture, and nearly new appliances in my Kitchen, and none of that is counted.

Look at that page again.... Do you see what a family of 4 can earn, and still qualify for food stamps?

According to that page, a family of 4, can earn $20/hr, that's $41,600 a year, and still qualify for SNAP.

A family of 2, can earn $14/hr, which is $30,000 a year, and still qualify for food stamps.

A couple, with 6 kids, could earn $34/hr, or $70,000 a year, and STILL qualify for SNAP.

This is what I'm talking about right here.

Is it possible that Walmart has employees collecting $6.2 Billion? Yes. But it's not Walmarts fault. It's the Federal Government that is giving out billions in welfare to people who don't need it. The Store Management team at the local Walmart, might be collecting Federal handouts, even if they had a Million dollar net worth.

You leftists are to blame for this, not Walmart.

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

Abolish Welfare.
Abolish SNAP.
Abolish the minimum wage.

NONE of that is going to happen, but hey you just keep screaming your way into non relevance while the Democrats do whatever they want b/c NO ONE wants your stupid alternative.

Jesus how are people so stupid

 

[The Rabbi]

OK conservatives....what is your plan?

30 million American workers need government assistance to survive.

Everyone needs assistance to survive

Who should make up the difference

The Taxpayer or the Employer?

Whoever wants to.

Not sure of what you are talking about

Yes, everyone needs to survive. If they work full time and can't subsist on what they make, who should make up the difference.

Now, you say "whoever wants to"
If we have 30 million people who do not make enough to live on and only 5 million people "want to" help. What happens to the other 25 million?

But the entire premise is faulty. In 2011, I earned a taxable income of only $12,000. I still survived. Was it fun? No. But I am still here.

You can survive on minimum wage. Get a second job. Two minimum wage jobs, is $31,000 a year. You can survive on that.

There are 30 million workers who need government assistance to survive

Can you point out 30 million second jobs they can take?

No, there aren't. Your intiial point is a fallacy.

 

[bripat9643]

If you really want to have a conversation about Welfare and who the real "takers" are -- let's start with this.

First off... I'd like to know more about the "Special Low Tax rate on Walmart Dividends claimed by the Walton".

As far as I've been able to find, there is only one Dividend Tax Rate, of 15%, and it's claimed by EVERYONE. *I* claim that dividend tax rate on my dividend payments. Everyone does. IF you have a 401K, or 403B, or an IRA, and you own stock..... YOU CLAIM THAT TAX RATE.

Now if there is some sort of super special, "Walton Only" tax benefit, then that's not a problem of Walmart, that's a problem of bad politicians. Find out who wrote, and voted for that bill, or slipped in that Pork, and let's FIRE their butt.

Second, all those tax breaks.... I don't have problem with that at all. If I was in control, they would pay ZERO in tax.

Which is better... more stores and more jobs, and more cheap products benefiting all of society...... or more Solyndra? More political kick backs to supporters? More Hydrogen Cars, and NextGen Clean Coal projects? Which would you rather have?

You idiots on the left are real quick to talk about how the economy is growing under Obama, and then turn right around an complain bitterly about the exact people growing the economy!

But thirdly.... I question even the source of the information.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

From the article:

"Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce."

An estimate from completely unbiased, pure data from Democrat Staff.... Really?

I have no yet looked at the data, but I do wonder about it.

Nevertheless, I will agree that it is possible that there are billions being given to people from the government.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

I happen to check out SNAP, just for my own humor. I found out something amazing. At least it's amazing to me.

I *almost* qualify for SNAP. That's insane. By any reasonable measure, I am not impoverished. I earn almost double the minimum wage. Not quite, but almost.

Yet according to this outline, I am just $140 a month over the max to qualify.

Why? Because first, my home does not count towards qualifying. My home could be worth $300,000, and SNAP doesn't count your personal residence at all.

I could have a roommate paying me rent, and that does not count as earned income. (even if it did, I could conveniently forget to add that, if I was an immoral person).

My car, doesn't count. I could have a bran new $50,000 Porche, and it wouldn't count at all towards qualifying for SNAP.

My IRA and 401K, which has thousands, could have even MILLIONS in it, and it doesn't count towards qualifying for SNAP.

Additionally, I own thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment, and furniture, and nearly new appliances in my Kitchen, and none of that is counted.

Look at that page again.... Do you see what a family of 4 can earn, and still qualify for food stamps?

According to that page, a family of 4, can earn $20/hr, that's $41,600 a year, and still qualify for SNAP.

A family of 2, can earn $14/hr, which is $30,000 a year, and still qualify for food stamps.

A couple, with 6 kids, could earn $34/hr, or $70,000 a year, and STILL qualify for SNAP.

This is what I'm talking about right here.

Is it possible that Walmart has employees collecting $6.2 Billion? Yes. But it's not Walmarts fault. It's the Federal Government that is giving out billions in welfare to people who don't need it. The Store Management team at the local Walmart, might be collecting Federal handouts, even if they had a Million dollar net worth.

You leftists are to blame for this, not Walmart.

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

Abolish Welfare.
Abolish SNAP.
Abolish the minimum wage.

NONE of that is going to happen, but hey you just keep screaming your way into non relevance while the Democrats do whatever they want b/c NO ONE wants your stupid alternative.

Jesus how are people so stupid

Your $10/hr minimum wage isn't going to happen either. The idea that ordering corporations to pay their employees what a bunch of whackadoodle left wingers think they deserve is hardly what anyone would call "relevant." Does anyone beside the Loonytoon leftwing support your plan?

 

[Andylusion]

Clearly a civil servant mandated minimum living wage is required.

People Before Profits Comrades !!!

Actually, 'People before Profits' sounds like a really honorable creed to me. It's what Jesus would want. America has lost its way. Greed kills. And it's definitely killing America.

That is not what Jesus, or the Bible taught. Not at all.

And although it might sound really 'honorable', in practice, it's a complete failure.

If you run a business, and you put people before profits, you don't have a business anymore. Now all those employees who were making money, are now unemployed. That's better?

And people who live that way with their personal finances, are often completely impoverished.

I had a friend, which I mentioned several times now, from Somalia. They would send all their spare money back to Somalia. Then their car broke down, and guess what... no money to fix it. But people before profits! Right? Can have them saving up money, and being wealthy no.

So now they can't get to work.

I know women who gave all their money to their kids, and then ended up losing their home. Couldn't pay the mortgage. People before money! Oh but now she's homeless, and can't help anyone.

You know who helps the poor more than any other people group? The rich. Why? Because they focused on profits, and thus have money to help others with. Impoverished people that don't have any profit.... can't help jack squat.

Why are you people on both sides, so black and white?

This isn't a either or proposition. You can both treat your employees well and make a profit, many companies do it everyday.

Wal Mart is neither Evil or Good in this argument, they are don't pay that bad and they don't go out of their way to help employees.

There was nothing black or white about my argument. It was simply a statement of reality.

Secondly, yes you can, and most businesses do.

The problem is, people want to define 'treat well', as in pay me far more than my labor is worth. And the fact is, a company of any kind, can NOT pay people more than their labor is worth.

When you pay people more than their labor is worth.... you go out of business.

The companies that "treat employees well, and make a profit" in leftard land, are ones where the labor they are providing, is in fact worth more, and thus they can pay more.

Again, if you hired someone to mow your lawn, and they changed $30 a mow. You might agree to that offer. But if they say "you need to treat me well, and pay me $100 a mow", what are you going to do? You likely not going to agree to that. Why? Cause the labor isn't worth $100 a mow, unless you happen to have an acre of land.

The only difference between that example, and the burger flipper, is that there is a corporation between the employee and the customer. But the economics is exactly the same. The company can NOT pay an employee more for their labor, than the customer is willing to pay for the labor.

If they do.... they go out of business. That's all there is to it. That's why every single time the minimum wage goes up, the price of everything else goes up. If you look at the price of burrito at Chipotle in 2006, it was $4.75. By 2010, it was $6.00. And lately after the Ohio minimum wage went up to $7.90, now it's $6.50.

Guess what.... I don't buy as many burritos as I did back then. Why? Cost too much.

Now if the price goes up too high, people stop buying. If enough people stop buying, stores start closing. When the store closes, those people you thought were "treated well" by being paid more... now are paid ZERO. Ultimately the Minimum Wage, is always ZERO.

The customer is always going to pay the full price of the labor, until the customer determine the labor isn't worth that high price, and stops buying.

Has NOTHING to do with the company. The company would LOVE to determine the value of the labor. They would LOVE to just deem the value of that burger flippers labor is $1 Million an hour, if they could. They would pay the employee $900K an hour, and pocket the $100K, and everyone would be filthy rich.

But the company has no ability to determine how much your labor is worth. Only the customer does. If *YOU* are not willing to pay more for that labor, the company can't do jack about it.

 

[Andylusion]

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

From the USDA site.... second sentence under resources....
However, certain resources are NOT counted, such as a home and lot, the resources of people who receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI), the resources of people who receive Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF, formerly AFDC), and most retirement (pension) plans.

For additional clarity....

Help - Full Help List

From the SNAP government tutorial site....

1. Some things that count as assets or resources:
   • Money that you have in cash or in checking or savings accounts
   • Stocks
   • Bonds
2. Some things that do not count as assets or resources:
   • Your house and belongings
   • A burial plot for each household member
   • Retirement accounts such as 401 K, Railroad Retirement, or others
   • Any asset that you cannot change into cash
   • Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) or others

401Ks..... IRAs.... Pensions... Household and belongings... Any other asset that you can not change into cash.

All NOT counted. That second to last one, is such a joke. If it can not be changed into cash, then it's not an asset to begin with. If it has value... it can be changed into cash. DIRT can be changed into cash. Just look for "top soil" on craigslist. What a joke.

As for case workers questioning the need people have for food stamps, that's not how government works.

If the government workers do not spend all the cast they are allotted by the government, then congressman and senators look up and say "hmm... they apparently didn't need that money. Let's cut the budget"... then those case workers.... end up unemployed.

The people working at the USDA, have every incentive to spend every dollar they can spend, and absolutely no incentive at all, to 'question' whether any given individual needs it.

Here in Ohio, several years back, the food stamp program actually purchased TV advertising, in order to increase enrollment. Since they didn't have the enrollment to give out the money that way, they blew the money on advertisements. Anything to spend that cash, and no have money left over at the end of the year.



Example ad.

So you want to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour. Ok, so a bunch of people are laid off, and now they are earning zero.

The rest find that prices have risen, and now they are no better off than when they earned less.

This is not a solution.

 

[Andylusion]

There are 30 million workers who need government assistance to survive

Can you point out 30 million second jobs they can take?

Yes. McDonald's and Wendy's are hiring ALL THE TIME. Walmart is hiring ALL THE TIME. There are thousands of jobs that are NEVER posted anywhere. You can deliver pizza. You can babysit kids. You can mow lawns. You can walk dogs. You can paint, clean, or do minor repair on people's homes. There are millions of things you can do, that people will pay you for.

I know a guy right now, that bought a bucket.... a mop.... and soap.... and he washes floors. Total startup cost for his floor mopping business? $15 at WALMART.

The only way you can't find a second job, is because you are lazy person who doesn't want to work. When I was in college.... I had THREE jobs. While in school. I worked at the Subway on Campus, and a Grocery store on the weekend, and had a little job at Wendy's.

Want to know how hard it was to find? I walked in, and ask for an application, and then asked to see the manager.

And second, they do not "need government assistance to survive". In 2012, I had a taxable income of $12,000 for the whole year. I did not collect food stamps. I survived. You people are just flat out full of absolute CRAP. That's all there is to it. You log on here, and just poop crap on the forum. You don't know jack squat.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

all good points and why I believe the correct thing to do is raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and then repair the SNAP guidelines.5

For instance, there should be cap to how many people in the household increase your benefits. Let's go with the average family size and round up so 2.3 kid plus mom and dad = 5 people. After that, your benefits DO NOT go up. Have 12 kids if you want but your SNAP benefits stop going up after 3.

And I believe you are wrong about 401Ks and such I just looked and they ARE counted.

A primary vehicle isn't counted against a person, nor is a house, but I have to believe if a person lived in a mansion and drove a Porsche that the worker on their case might question their need for SNAP, however being a government employee maybe they wouldn't.

Eligibility Food and Nutrition Service

From the USDA site.... second sentence under resources....
However, certain resources are NOT counted, such as a home and lot, the resources of people who receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI), the resources of people who receive Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF, formerly AFDC), and most retirement (pension) plans.

For additional clarity....

Help - Full Help List

From the SNAP government tutorial site....

1. Some things that count as assets or resources:
   • Money that you have in cash or in checking or savings accounts
   • Stocks
   • Bonds
2. Some things that do not count as assets or resources:
   • Your house and belongings
   • A burial plot for each household member
   • Retirement accounts such as 401 K, Railroad Retirement, or others
   • Any asset that you cannot change into cash
   • Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) or others

401Ks..... IRAs.... Pensions... Household and belongings... Any other asset that you can not change into cash.

All NOT counted. That second to last one, is such a joke. If it can not be changed into cash, then it's not an asset to begin with. If it has value... it can be changed into cash. DIRT can be changed into cash. Just look for "top soil" on craigslist. What a joke.

As for case workers questioning the need people have for food stamps, that's not how government works.

If the government workers do not spend all the cast they are allotted by the government, then congressman and senators look up and say "hmm... they apparently didn't need that money. Let's cut the budget"... then those case workers.... end up unemployed.

The people working at the USDA, have every incentive to spend every dollar they can spend, and absolutely no incentive at all, to 'question' whether any given individual needs it.

Here in Ohio, several years back, the food stamp program actually purchased TV advertising, in order to increase enrollment. Since they didn't have the enrollment to give out the money that way, they blew the money on advertisements. Anything to spend that cash, and no have money left over at the end of the year.



Example ad.

So you want to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour. Ok, so a bunch of people are laid off, and now they are earning zero.

The rest find that prices have risen, and now they are no better off than when they earned less.

This is not a solution.

First of all, who's going to get laid off? That's just some stupid scare tactic and is not supported by ANY evidence. Historically the unemployment rate has barely moved when the minimum wage has been raised.

Second of all, prices are going to go up regardless of wages. Again historically the minimum wage has not affected inflation one way or the other.

Let's say Bob works at McDonalds and currently qualifies for welfare. Let's say Bob get's $2K a year in welfare on top of the $12K a year he earns at McD. Now let's suppose the minimum wage goes up and Bob is now earning $14K a year at McD but no longer qualifies for welfare.

Bob still has the same $14K a year to spend, the difference being none of it came from welfare.

Do I care that Bob has the same amount of money is pocket as before? NO. All I care about is that he's no longer on the public dole.

You "conservatives" sure can be morons sometimes.

 

[Andylusion]

NONE of that is going to happen, but hey you just keep screaming your way into non relevance while the Democrats do whatever they want b/c NO ONE wants your stupid alternative.

Jesus how are people so stupid

Oh shut up. Your system is what has gotten us to where we are. We have a better system, that has worked every time it's tried.

Greece tried it your way, and they screwed their economy up so bad, that they rolled back the minimum wage, because the unemployment rate hit 28% following the absolute stupidity of brainless foolish morons like you.

Just shut up. Your way failed. We raised the minimum wage in 2007, 2008, 2009. Did that 'boost the economy with increased spending power of the lower class!'.......? Huh? Did it moron? Did it?? WHERE WAS THE BOOST MORON?!?

You stupid.... foolish.... ignorant... blind... ideologues... with your holier-than-thou, stupidity that his been proven false OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. But you are so far beyond absolutely retarded, you can't even tell your dumb crap has failed every single time.

Just get off the forum. The we want the average IQ of the forum to go up, and you leaving is the best way to achieve that. Just get lost. You lost this argument. You lost every claim. You have been proven wrong more times than I can count, and yet you are so arrogant and ignorant, you have zero credibility to say no one wants the alternative to your trash? What a moron. Go live in Greece. Your policies worked so well there, then shut up and move there you mindless fool.