War in Ukraine - News and More

[Kruska]

But the majority of Donbass were not in favour of the Regime that came to power after the 2014 coup, they voted by a big majority for Yanukovych as bad as he was, then they woke one morning to find the elected Government had been overthrown with foreign backing, the rest is history.

Both, the West and Russia had continuously since 1991 been "influencing" their respective favorites in Ukraine. The other problem (maybe the main problem) were/are the disunited Ukrainian power-groups - more interested in their personal agendas $$ - then to develop or enhance a unified "multicultural" Ukraine.

Then there were nationalist Ukrainian elements at work - discriminating and oppressing so called non-Ukrainians - and this is were Putin got his chances - therefore nationalist Ukrainian circles contra Russian backed nationalist Russo-Ukrainians.

The UN clearly messed up in regards to ensuring internationally recognized elections in e.g. Donbas and Luhansk in 2014 - personally I would not simply trust Russian encouraged and controlled elections in those two provinces. Independently Russia had no right to attack/occupy Crimea and the UN again messed up in regards to elections held on Crimea.

IMO - Putin has a valid argument to "protect" Russian interests towards the EU and NATO. Ukraine delivered him the "excuse" or the factual reason, via applying to become a NATO member - since it is obvious to anyone that upon Ukraine being a NATO member - Russia couldn't have done anything about it.

Zelensky, the EU, NATO and the USA were confident that their attempts to get a UAF into shape - would thus allow for the UAF to attack aka retake Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea. IMO they would have succeeded in that, IF Putin had allowed them to prepare till 2024 - however he decided to attack first, in order to disrupt this "preparation" of the UAF.

NATO and the USA in the meantime have realized that the present UAF is not able to gain a decisive victory against the Russian forces. Neither are the Russian forces able to gain a leverage in regards to gaining additional Ukrainian territory. As such everything is back to 2014.

In other words - 8 years wasted to develop the remaining Ukraine, but getting into a devastating war that factually eradicated Ukraine's infrastructure, economy and industry. And I do not see (never saw since Feb. 2022) the "willingness" for the EU nor NATO to finance the entire Ukrainian society & economy in order to just keep a war ongoing, with Ukraine "only" being able to contribute towards manpower.

The US$ and the € simply don't work in that manner.

 

[JoeyVimsanteThePoet]

I beg for peace between Ukraine and Russia. We need peace everywhere on Earth.
I support peace everywhere Russia, Ukraine, the USA. The European Union. Switzerland, Australia, Brazil,, Canada, New Zealand, Africa, China, India, Japan and everywhere on Earth.

 

[Meister]

I beg for peace between Ukraine and Russia. We need peace everywhere on Earth.
I support peace everywhere Russia, Ukraine, the USA. The European Union. Switzerland, Australia, Brazil,, Canada, New Zealand, Africa, China, India, Japan and everywhere on Earth.

As long as there are two people on Earth, there will never be total peace.

 

[Vrenn]

As long as there are two people on Earth, there will never be total peace.

Will too, you wanna fight about it?

 

[Deadstick]

Both, the West and Russia had continuously since 1991 been "influencing" their respective favorites in Ukraine. The other problem (maybe the main problem) were/are the disunited Ukrainian power-groups - more interested in their personal agendas $$ - then to develop or enhance a unified "multicultural" Ukraine.

Then there were nationalist Ukrainian elements at work - discriminating and oppressing so called non-Ukrainians - and this is were Putin got his chances - therefore nationalist Ukrainian circles contra Russian backed nationalist Russo-Ukrainians.

The UN clearly messed up in regards to ensuring internationally recognized elections in e.g. Donbas and Luhansk in 2014 - personally I would not simply trust Russian encouraged and controlled elections in those two provinces. Independently Russia had no right to attack/occupy Crimea and the UN again messed up in regards to elections held on Crimea.

IMO - Putin has a valid argument to "protect" Russian interests towards the EU and NATO. Ukraine delivered him the "excuse" or the factual reason, via applying to become a NATO member - since it is obvious to anyone that upon Ukraine being a NATO member - Russia couldn't have done anything about it.

Zelensky, the EU, NATO and the USA were confident that their attempts to get a UAF into shape - would thus allow for the UAF to attack aka retake Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea. IMO they would have succeeded in that, IF Putin had allowed them to prepare till 2024 - however he decided to attack first, in order to disrupt this "preparation" of the UAF.

NATO and the USA in the meantime have realized that the present UAF is not able to gain a decisive victory against the Russian forces. Neither are the Russian forces able to gain a leverage in regards to gaining additional Ukrainian territory. As such everything is back to 2014.

In other words - 8 years wasted to develop the remaining Ukraine, but getting into a devastating war that factually eradicated Ukraine's infrastructure, economy and industry. And I do not see (never saw since Feb. 2022) the "willingness" for the EU nor NATO to finance the entire Ukrainian society & economy in order to just keep a war ongoing, with Ukraine "only" being able to contribute towards manpower.

The US$ and the € simply don't work in that manner.

You make some good points, but the bottom line is Russia was ignored when they talked about a security framework that took their interests into account, then once the rabid Bandera Regime came to power supported by the US and it's puppets in Europe then started attacking Donbass killing many, Russia had to react, they established control over Crimea, Putin knew the next move by the Coup mob was to send their goons down to Crimea and repeat what they had done in Odessa and take control of Sevastopol, if Putin had not acted it would now be a Nato base and that just could not be tolerated, just think if a rabid anti US regime had been installed in Hawaaii and invited the Russians or Chinese to take over what the US reaction would be, i think we know.

 

[Kruska]

You make some good points, but the bottom line is Russia was ignored when they talked about a security framework that took their interests into account, then once the rabid Bandera Regime came to power supported by the US and it's puppets in Europe then started attacking Donbass killing many, Russia had to react, they established control over Crimea, Putin knew the next move by the Coup mob was to send their goons down to Crimea and repeat what they had done in Odessa and take control of Sevastopol, if Putin had not acted it would now be a Nato base and that just could not be tolerated, just think if a rabid anti US regime had been installed in Hawaaii and invited the Russians or Chinese to take over what the US reaction would be, i think we know.

I am absolutely aware about your point of view - and undoubtedly you have valid points.

However it's politics - which are always dishonest and manipulated by ALL sides.
All I can speak for is my own assertion and opinion - and it was absolutely clear to me (and many others) that Ukraine's deceleration of independence in 1991, would NEVER simply remain unopposed in the future.

Therefore as I had stated already - it was solely Ukraine's duty/obligation to prepare itself for such a time to come. Simply relying onto others aka NATO and the EU, obviously wasn't enough.

 

[Deadstick]

I am absolutely aware about your point of view - and undoubtedly you have valid points.

However it's politics - which are always dishonest and manipulated by ALL sides.
All I can speak for is my own assertion and opinion - and it was absolutely clear to me (and many others) that Ukraine's deceleration of independence in 1991, would NEVER simply remain unopposed in the future.

Therefore as I had stated already - it was solely Ukraine's duty/obligation to prepare itself for such a time to come. Simply relying onto others aka NATO and the EU, obviously wasn't enough.

I don't believe Russia ever had a problem with a independent Ukraine, until it changed into a toxic Nationalist State that allowed itself to be manipulated by Foreign powers mainly the US and used as a spear to attack Russia, they knew very well Ukraine in Nato would be a red line for Russia and were warned it would be, yet they continued down that road, that is a provocation.

 

[Kruska]

I don't believe Russia ever had a problem with a independent Ukraine,

Hmm... you sure?
Independent of the NATO issue - a Ukraine within an EU controlled economy. Let's say starting by 2010 - would have latest by 2030 rendered Russia position towards zero, in regards to supplying natural resources to the EU and attracting foreign investment.

Economically a united and well governed Ukraine - would seriously hamper any economic effort by Russia. And that would be a far more serious threat to Russia, then the military via NATO.

However it is known and a fact that the EU does not commit itself towards a country "who's loyalty and payback" isn't ensured by NATO. !!

 

[Vrenn]

Hmm... you sure?
Independent of the NATO issue - a Ukraine within an EU controlled economy. Let's say starting by 2010 - would have latest by 2030 rendered Russia position towards zero, in regards to supplying natural resources to the EU and attracting foreign investment.

Economically a united and well governed Ukraine - would seriously hamper any economic effort by Russia. And that would be a far more serious threat to Russia, then the military via NATO.

However it is known and a fact that the EU does not commit itself towards a country "who's loyalty and payback" isn't ensured by NATO. !!

From what I can see, from the actions of Putin from the onset, he longs for the days of the USSR and Ukraine seemed to be the easiest.

 

[Kruska]

From what I can see, from the actions of Putin from the onset, he longs for the days of the USSR and Ukraine seemed to be the easiest.

We had this discussion already

But I still fail to see a proof towards outright Russian aggression. That Putin dreams of a resurrected Czarist Russia in regards to political influence and international standing is obvious, aka - "Make Russia Great Again"

Fact is however that Russia did not get into a war - nor kicked one off since 1990 till 2014 - that's 24 years of peaceful politics. Including 14 years under Putin. I do not evaluate the internal Russian issue of Chechnya nor the support given to the Georgian breakaway provinces as an act of war committed by Russia due to wanting to bring back breakaway Republics, dating from 1991. But certainly a policy that promotes/beholds, Russians living in former Russian Republics should not be subjected to "foreign" rule.

A bit like Hitler in regards to, Germans living in former German territories - that became sovereign countries in 1919, without Germany having had the possibility of a say in the matter.

It was however obvious that Putin's aka Russia's tone towards Ukraine started to change noticeably from 2008 onward, due to Ukraine messing around with the NATO topic.

That Putin like Hitler is pressing for Russian speaking territory - and the West giving in to avoid a war e.g. a "Chamberlain syndrome" isn't obvious either - he never, unlike Hitler openly "demanded" reunification of Russian speaking territory under a threat of war. He is simply aware that Russians living in e.g. Donbass or Luhansk themselves want to be self ruled or reunited with mother Russia and openly supports such movements. (certainly also instigating - after all politics is supposed to be dirty).

He has his clear opinion that Crimea isn't Ukrainian - but was conquered by Russia and that Ukraine had no right to take Khrushchev "present" to be a part of an independent Ukraine.

If Putin's ambition would be the reestablishment of a territorial Czarist Russia or the USSR - then why didn't he attack easy prey like Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia or e.g. Kazakhstan (loads of oil&gas) ?? Even tough the capability of the Russian army is questionable, especially in e.g. 2004 - but to occupy those population and territorial dwarfs like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania in 2003 - before joining NATO in 2004 - who would have stopped him or intervened? Bush was busy plundering and ravaging Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Vrenn]

We had this discussion already

But I still fail to see a proof towards outright Russian aggression. That Putin dreams of a resurrected Czarist Russia in regards to political influence and international standing is obvious, aka - "Make Russia Great Again"

Fact is however that Russia did not get into a war - nor kicked one off since 1990 till 2014 - that's 24 years of peaceful politics. Including 14 years under Putin. I do not evaluate the internal Russian issue of Chechnya nor the support given to the Georgian breakaway provinces as an act of war committed by Russia due to wanting to bring back breakaway Republics, dating from 1991. But certainly a policy that promotes/beholds, Russians living in former Russian Republics should not be subjected to "foreign" rule.

Russia did not go to war to get it's 2014 borders in Ukraine. Ukraine was unable to prevent that. No, they didn't start a war, they just annexed parts of Ukraine.

A bit like Hitler in regards to, Germans living in former German territories - that became sovereign countries in 1919, without Germany having had the possibility of a say in the matter.

The Navajo speaks the same language as a group in Mongolia. Does that mean thaqt because they were mistreated by the US that China and Russia should have annexed parts of the US?

It was however obvious that Putin's aka Russia's tone towards Ukraine started to change noticeably from 2008 onward, due to Ukraine messing around with the NATO topic.

NATO was pretty well sure that Ukraine would have a long way to go to join Nato. That so called reason was just an excuse. Hell, even Russia, at one time, wanted to join Nato.

That Putin like Hitler is pressing for Russian speaking territory - and the West giving in to avoid a war e.g. a "Chamberlain syndrome" isn't obvious either - he never, unlike Hitler openly "demanded" reunification of Russian speaking territory under a threat of war. He is simply aware that Russians living in e.g. Donbass or Luhansk themselves want to be self ruled or reunited with mother Russia and openly supports such movements. (certainly also instigating - after all politics is supposed to be dirty).

He has his clear opinion that Crimea isn't Ukrainian - but was conquered by Russia and that Ukraine had no right to take Khrushchev "present" to be a part of an independent Ukraine.

If Putin's ambition would be the reestablishment of a territorial Czarist Russia or the USSR - then why didn't he attack easy prey like Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia or e.g. Kazakhstan (loads of oil&gas) ?? Even tough the capability of the Russian army is questionable, especially in e.g. 2004 - but to occupy those population and territorial dwarfs like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania in 2003 - before joining NATO in 2004 - who would have stopped him or intervened? Bush was busy plundering and ravaging Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tell Georgia that it was fair when they lost a sizable chunk of their country to Russia.

 

[Kruska]

Russia did not go to war to get it's 2014 borders in Ukraine. Ukraine was unable to prevent that. No, they didn't start a war, they just annexed parts of Ukraine.

No Russia went to war in 2014 - via taking occupying Crimea - since it was an non-bloody takeover no one called it a war.
The reasons as to why Putin went to war in regards to the Crimea are also known. That is why I had stated no war conducted by Russia from 1990 - 2014.

The Navajo speaks the same language as a group in Mongolia. Does that mean thaqt because they were mistreated by the US that China and Russia should have annexed parts of the US?

I wouldn't know about that - and when was some Navajo lands ever a part of Mongolia? your comparison totally fails.

NATO was pretty well sure that Ukraine would have a long way to go to join Nato. That so called reason was just an excuse. Hell, even Russia, at one time, wanted to join Nato.

Russia wanted to join NATO to get rid of the US troops in Germany, and to prevent the rearmament of Germany.

Tell Georgia that it was fair when they lost a sizable chunk of their country to Russia.

Which part of Georgia has Russia supposedly annexed?

 

[Vrenn]

No Russia went to war in 2014 - via taking occupying Crimea - since it was an non-bloody takeover no one called it a war.
The reasons as to why Putin went to war in regards to the Crimea are also known. That is why I had stated no war conducted by Russia from 1990 - 2014.

I wouldn't know about that - and when was some Navajo lands ever a part of Mongolia? your comparison totally fails.

Russia wanted to join NATO to get rid of the US troops in Germany, and to prevent the rearmament of Germany.

Which part of Georgia has Russia supposedly annexed?

Your handler is leaving out information. Get a new handler.

 

[Kruska]

Your handler is leaving out information. Get a new handler.

Come on, don't get personal - someone who places Navajo and Mongolia in the same sentence to make a point - shouldn't do that

 

[Bleipriester]

Warmonger News!

Litwin luiza ESay

Head of the faction of the Servant of the People party (Zelensky´s party) in the Ukrainian parliament, Davyd Arakhamia, said in an interview that during early peace talks in Turkey there was total agreement and the treaty has been signed, but then the West intervened and ordered Ukraine to keep on the fight.
The news is consistent with his Wikipedia entry.

Страна-дезертир: ВСУ массово отказываются умирать за Запад и Зеленского

Вот уже целые сутки пылает Рунет и потеют дождями соцсети — миллионы профессиональных аналитиков наконец поняли, что киевский режим, оказывается, управляется... РИА Новости, 26.11.2023

ria.ru

Davyd Arakhamia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ESay]

Warmonger News!

Litwin luiza ESay

Head of the faction of the Servant of the People party (Zelensky´s party) in the Ukrainian parliament, Davyd Arakhamia, said in an interview that during early peace talks in Turkey there was total agreement and the treaty has been signed, but then the West intervened and ordered Ukraine to keep on the fight.
The news is consistent with his Wikipedia entry.

Страна-дезертир: ВСУ массово отказываются умирать за Запад и Зеленского

Вот уже целые сутки пылает Рунет и потеют дождями соцсети — миллионы профессиональных аналитиков наконец поняли, что киевский режим, оказывается, управляется... РИА Новости, 26.11.2023

ria.ru

Davyd Arakhamia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And? You got back to your usual state of pushing Russian propaganda?

That is not what he said.

 

[Bleipriester]

And? You got back to your usual state of pushing Russian propaganda?

That is not what he said.

I am sure he did. Consult the Wikipedia entry. They have western sources there for his statements.

 

[ESay]

I am sure he did. Consult the Wikipedia entry. They have western sources there for his statements.

I don't care sure you are or not. I watched the interview in original.

 

[Litwin]

Warmonger News!

 

[Bleipriester]

I don't care sure you are or not. I watched the interview in original.

So, last time you demanded the original text of what Lavrov said, you remember? I provided the text. Now it is your turn, provide the text, please.