War in Ukraine - News and More

[Bleipriester]

He didn't outline anything. Stop spreading false narratives.

What does "In that edition, under those conditions, we support the territorial integrity of this state." mean then in your opinion?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Also nothing on the subject?

There is no subject. The dissolution of the USSR left both Russia and Ukraine as sovereign independent state and Russia had no jurisdiction over what happened in Ukraine. The fact that you claim Russia did have some jurisdiction over what Ukraine did, clearly defines you as an enthusiastic supporter of Russian imperialism.

 

[toomuchtime_]

What does "In that edition, under those conditions, we support the territorial integrity of this state." mean then in your opinion?

It means Lavrov is asserting that Russia must be in control of the Ukrainian government, or it will try to take over Ukraine on the battlefield.

 

[ESay]

What does "In that edition, under those conditions, we support the territorial integrity of this state." mean then in your opinion?

I already told you above. See no reason to repeat that again. Ask your Russian friends to explain it for you, if you can't grasp his speech in translation. My advise - don't ask those who 'sold' you that video.

 

[ESay]

Well i don't believe he said any such thing, if Lavrov thinks the people in Donbass and Crimea could ever live under a Ukrainian Regime ever again he is mistaken.

Of courses he didn't.

 

[Bleipriester]

Well i don't believe he said any such thing, if Lavrov thinks the people in Donbass and Crimea could ever live under a Ukrainian Regime ever again he is mistaken.

Lavrov is also demanding full rights for the Ukrainian Russians. There are joint Russian-Belarussian-Ukrainian declarations that grant civil rights to the full extent to all.
But if we see the reactions of the Anti-Russian posters here, that all refuse to comment on Lavrov´s conditions, we can assume that peace is not on the Anti-Russian roadmap. Maybe, Kiev reacts in another way, one that ends the war. Returning the territories would be a major victory for Zelensky.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Lavrov is also demanding full rights for the Ukrainian Russians. There are joint Russian-Belarussian-Ukrainian declarations that grant civil rights to the full extent to all.
But if we see the reactions of the Anti-Russian posters here, that all refuse to comment on Lavrov´s conditions, we can assume that peace is not on the Anti-Russian roadmap. Maybe, Kiev reacts in another way, one that ends the war. Returning the territories would be a major victory for Zelensky.

No, at this point in the war, it would be a victory of sorts - really a face-saving gesture - for Putin to avoid being driven out of Ukraine and to still assert its invasion was justified and that it retained the right to invade again if it disapproved of what the Ukrainian government was doing.

There can be no stable peace between Russia and Ukraine until Russia has clearly abandoned all its imperialist ambitions, and while this statement by Lavrov seems to suggest Russia realizes this may become unavoidable, there is still a long way to go.

 

[Deadstick]

Lavrov is also demanding full rights for the Ukrainian Russians. There are joint Russian-Belarussian-Ukrainian declarations that grant civil rights to the full extent to all.
But if we see the reactions of the Anti-Russian posters here, that all refuse to comment on Lavrov´s conditions, we can assume that peace is not on the Anti-Russian roadmap. Maybe, Kiev reacts in another way, one that ends the war. Returning the territories would be a major victory for Zelensky.

Those territories are gone forever, otherwise what has the war been all about? Ukrainians have killed thousands in Donbass they are still hitting civilians in Donetsk, it's not an option otherwise there would be millions of refugees entering Russia from Donbass, they can never trust those Kiev nationalists ever again.

 

[Bleipriester]

No, at this point in the war, it would be a victory of sorts - really a face-saving gesture - for Putin to avoid being driven out of Ukraine and to still assert its invasion was justified and that it retained the right to invade again if it disapproved of what the Ukrainian government was doing.

There can be no stable peace between Russia and Ukraine until Russia has clearly abandoned all its imperialist ambitions, and while this statement by Lavrov seems to suggest Russia realizes this may become unavoidable, there is still a long way to go.

Those territories are gone forever, otherwise what has the war been all about? Ukrainians have killed thousands in Donbass they are still hitting civilians in Donetsk, it's not an option otherwise there would be millions of refugees entering Russia from Donbass, they can never trust those Kiev nationalists ever again.

Those "refugees" are already Russian nationals. They would probably leave the Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea regions. Maybe not all of them, some will prefer to stay in their old home but would be no longer second class Ukrainians.

If such an agreement between Russia and Ukraine would be realized it would have several advantages for both sides.

Ukraine:

• Ukraine gets huge swaths of territories back
• Russia won´t question Ukraine´s borders anymore
• War is over, gents! The Ukrainian people suffers the most under the war

Russia:

• Western support for Ukraine will cease, thus the old status quo of Ukraine and Russia being inseparable culturally and economically will be reinstated. If the war will be decided on the battlefield, no matter the outcome, Ukraine and Russia will be totally separated. Thus Russia will replace the West in Kiev
• Russia can maintain the image of a nation of peace
• Western sanctions will be obsolete. Russia will either be reintegrated into the entire global community or else the West will look like tyrants who impose sanctions on people, including little children, for no reason

 

[toomuchtime_]

Those "refugees" are already Russian nationals. They would probably leave the Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea regions. Maybe not all of them, some will prefer to stay in their old home but would be no longer second class Ukrainians.

If such an agreement between Russia and Ukraine would be realized it would have several advantages for both sides.

Ukraine:

• Ukraine gets huge swaths of territories back
• Russia won´t question Ukraine´s borders anymore
• War is over, gents! The Ukrainian people suffers the most under the war

Russia:

• Western support for Ukraine will cease, thus the old status quo of Ukraine and Russia being inseparable culturally and economically will be reinstated. If the war will be decided on the battlefield, no matter the outcome, Ukraine and Russia will be totally separated. Thus Russia will replace the West in Kiev
• Russia can maintain the image of a nation of peace
• Western sanctions will be obsolete. Russia will either be reintegrated into the entire global community or else the West will look like tyrants who impose sanctions on people, including little children, for no reason

It would be the best possible deal for Russia but a disaster for Ukraine.

 

[Bleipriester]

It would be the best possible deal for Russia but a disaster for Ukraine.

The current situation is a disaster for Ukraine.

Example:

Russia’s war expected to cut Ukraine’s GDP by almost half: World Bank

The World Bank said the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine is expected to cut the former Soviet state’s gross domestic product (GDP) by 45.1 percent this year. In a report published this weekend, the World Bank said the ongoing invasion has created an “economic contraction” in Ukraine, adding...

finance.yahoo.com

And nobody expects Ukraine to be able to take back lost territories by force.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The current situation is a disaster for Ukraine.

Example:

Russia’s war expected to cut Ukraine’s GDP by almost half: World Bank

The World Bank said the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine is expected to cut the former Soviet state’s gross domestic product (GDP) by 45.1 percent this year. In a report published this weekend, the World Bank said the ongoing invasion has created an “economic contraction” in Ukraine, adding...

finance.yahoo.com

And nobody expects Ukraine to be able to take back lost territories by force.

Everybody expects Ukraine to be able to take back the territories Russia took. Why else do you think Ukraine's allies be working so hard to defeat Russia? Do you think Germany and Ukraine's other allies decided to do without Russian gas only to see Russia win? Use your head, no one expects Russia to be able to hold on to any part of Ukraine.

 

[Bleipriester]

Everybody expects Ukraine to be able to take back the territories Russia took. Why else do you think Ukraine's allies be working so hard to defeat Russia? Do you think Germany and Ukraine's other allies decided to do without Russian gas only to see Russia win? Use your head, no one expects Russia to be able to hold on to any part of Ukraine.

You are not good in reading news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/

The West´s stock of ammo is spent and Ukraine´s European "allies" refuse to sign 10-years contracts with the arms suppliers so they have no more ammo to give to Zelensky. Biden also said he is supplying cluster ammunition because he got nothing else anymore. Poland stopped the deliveries completely. Ukraine refused to take the last 10 trash tanks of Germany.

Plus 31 Abrams tanks:

MSN

www.msn.com

While Russia is ramping up the production of everything, the West is depleted and its leaders act like babies and can be expected to supply us as their last trump. Russia will win this war and Ukraine should now ask for peace.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You are not good in reading news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/

The West´s stock of ammo is spent and Ukraine´s European "allies" refuse to sign 10-years contracts with the arms suppliers so they have no more ammo to give to Zelensky. Biden also said he is supplying cluster ammunition because he got nothing else anymore. Poland stopped the deliveries completely. Ukraine refused to take the last 10 trash tanks of Germany.

Plus 31 Abrams tanks:

MSN

www.msn.com

While Russia is ramping up the production of everything, the West is depleted and its leaders act like babies and can be expected to supply us as their last trump. Russia will win this war and Ukraine should now ask for peace.

Again, the West would not be supporting Ukraine at such great to itself if it didn't believe Ukraine wouldn't be able to drive Russia out of Ukraine.

 

[Bleipriester]

Again, the West would not be supporting Ukraine at such great to itself if it didn't believe Ukraine wouldn't be able to drive Russia out of Ukraine.

They just use up Ukraine and will drop them like a hot potato as they did with their other allies.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They just use up Ukraine and will drop them like a hot potato as they did with their other allies.

That is Putin's only hope, but it is a foolish one.

 

[skye]

They just use up Ukraine and will drop them like a hot potato as they did with their other allies.

and they will too.....they are doing it right now!

 

[Oddball]

Again, the West would not be supporting Ukraine at such great to itself if it didn't believe Ukraine wouldn't be able to drive Russia out of Ukraine.

Just like the South Koreans and South Vietnamese drove the commies out with all that Murican support!

Oh wait......

 

[AlexanderPK]

Everybody expects Ukraine to be able to take back the territories Russia took. Why else do you think Ukraine's allies be working so hard to defeat Russia? Do you think Germany and Ukraine's other allies decided to do without Russian gas only to see Russia win? Use your head, no one expects Russia to be able to hold on to any part of Ukraine.

The morons buy that same Russian gas from India only at a three times higher the price. Well, you and Uks are genetically impaired and may be excused but what I can't wrap my mind around is how the Germans fell for that?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The morons buy that same Russian gas from India only at a three times higher the price. Well, you and Uks are genetically impaired and may be excused but what I can't wrap my mind around is how the Germans fell for that?

In fact, India buys no Russian gas, but it does buy Russian crude oil at a 30% discount from market price and then refines it into petroleum based products and sells some of these products to the West.