War on Christmas

[Chris]

Great save, Chris.

No save at all.

I thought all Buddhists knew that Koan...

A monk asked Ummon, "What is Buddha?"

Ummon answered, "A dried stick of dung."

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/yun-men.html

 

[sky dancer]

No. I never heard of that koan. I don't study or practice zen buddhism.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Chris]

No. I never heard of that koan. I don't study or practice zen buddhism.

Merry Christmas.

So Buddhism is different than Zen Buddhism?

 

[YWN666]

Yes! I could be fucking stupid if you say so! do you say so???

Your illogical comments say so. I'm just an observer.

 

[YWN666]

Willow dont respond to that idiot nutter, hes nothing but another Shogun........

In other words, you can't respond with substance so you have to attack me personally and tell everyone else to ignore me. You're pathetic.

 

[YWN666]

Originally Posted by YWN666 View Post
Maybe because they'd like to have their own religious beliefs acknowledged instead of having to always accomodate the wants of christians. It's about respect.

respect for everybody but Christians obviously,, you are not respectful enough to let christians say Merry Christmas huh?

No, respect for everyone. If a store employee wishes a jewish person a Happy Hannukah, is that being disrespectful to you? Of course not. Drop the "poor little christian" act and read what I am saying for once. I never said christians can't say Merry Christmas.

Can you outline for me exactly how anyone is taking anything away from christians or being disrespectful to them?

 

[YWN666]

I think the whole point is to have a light heart about this stuff. When someone is obviously brimming with joy and smiles and wishes me Merry Christmas, I smile back and wish them the same.

When someone gets all cross, and tells me that they are wishing Merry Christmas whether it offends atheists, Muslims or Jews or not, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

It is much like when someone says "I'll pray for you". I am an atheist and don't pray but if someone knows that I have an illness in my family and says "I'll pray for you", I take it is a genuine wish for wellness. If I am in a heated debate with another rabid religionist and he uses "I'll pray for you" to say "I'll pray that you stop being stupid and see that I'm right" or as a closing FU when he can't think of anything else to say, then that is a whole different story. The intent has a lot to do with it.

 

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by YWN666 View Post
Maybe because they'd like to have their own religious beliefs acknowledged instead of having to always accomodate the wants of christians. It's about respect.



No, respect for everyone. If a store employee wishes a jewish person a Happy Hannukah, is that being disrespectful to you? Of course not. Drop the "poor little christian" act and read what I am saying for once. I never said christians can't say Merry Christmas.

Can you outline for me exactly how anyone is taking anything away from christians or being disrespectful to them?

If the "War on Christmas" isn't real, how come you are so adamant in attempting to disprove a non-entity?

Retailers screwed up trying to stay on top of the PC, secular game and it backfired for some of them because people are tired of this continual attack on our culture. And whether you like or not, and no matter how you want to spin it, Christmas is part of our culture. It makes most people happy. Which I guess is the problem. There's always that crowd that sees someone happy and has to find out why and then piss all over. They suck, so they want to make sure they share their suckiness with everyone else.

If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't. Don't know what's wrong with you younger folks that you can find a dark lining in every silver cloud. I grew up when every excuse to party was a GOOD one.

Shit, sit home and watch the Grinch. If you're really good with technology, you might be able to even edit it where he wins in the end.

 

[Ravi]

Retailers screwed up trying to stay on top of the PC, secular game and it backfired for some of them because people are tired of this continual attack on our culture.

Nonsense. The only thing that is hurting Walmart and other retailers that attempt to be inclusive is the economy, not the outrage of a small group of fanatics who insist on being wished a Merry Christmas.

 

[jillian]

If the "War on Christmas" isn't real, how come you are so adamant in attempting to disprove a non-entity?

Perhaps because there are loonies running around pretending the majority is victimized if a freaking greeter says "happy holidays" in order to be INCLUSIVE..... Nothing PC about it. Personally, I don't care what people say, but I think it's more polite to be generic if you don't know what the person you're speaking to is celebrating. Why NOT be polite?? Why NOT be inclusive?

And I'd doubt it's backfired on anyone except for the people who are still fussing about this cause it only resonates to the people who already agree with them. The rest of us just think it's pretty weird.

 

[Lycurgus]

Perhaps because there are loonies running around pretending the majority is victimized if a freaking greeter says "happy holidays" in order to be INCLUSIVE..... Nothing PC about it. Personally, I don't care what people say, but I think it's more polite to be generic if you don't know what the person you're speaking to is celebrating. Why NOT be polite?? Why NOT be inclusive?

And I'd doubt it's backfired on anyone except for the people who are still fussing about this cause it only resonates to the people who already agree with them. The rest of us just think it's pretty weird.

I could careless what the greeter says, if anything at all. If they represent a company, so long as they can answer my questions, I'll feel like I was just given a gift.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yep true just google it, lol them cat avatars Williow

Okay, googled, all I see are people whining that not everyone celebrates it, about 100 references to O'Rielly (most call it his war). The only non-sided ones are those saying that it's all made up, a catch phrase, nothing real. Next.

 

[KittenKoder]

Happy payday! *nods sagely*
Happy double-time day!
Peaceful nap day!
Happy day that begins the fall of man!
... hmm ... can't think of a good one so Happy December Eve!

 

[KittenKoder]

I often wonder why so few people get this one part: "The pluralism of the holiday display might be a little unruly, but it is a reasonable alternative to stripping from government buildings any reference to these holidays that are such an important part of many citizens' lives."

Editorials & Opinion | Truce in the war on Christmas | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[sky dancer]

So Buddhism is different than Zen Buddhism?

Zen is a particular school of Mahayana Buddhism and originated in Japan. The Theravadin school which originated in South East Asia.

I practice Mahayana/Vajrayana which originated in Tibet. All Buddhsim share some common teachings--what is emphasized in the teachings and the specific practices that accompany these teachings differ.

The koan is a specific method in Zen.

All Buddhist practice has some commonality and the goal is to liberate the mind and heart.

 

[sky dancer]

Perhaps because there are loonies running around pretending the majority is victimized if a freaking greeter says "happy holidays" in order to be INCLUSIVE..... Nothing PC about it. Personally, I don't care what people say, but I think it's more polite to be generic if you don't know what the person you're speaking to is celebrating. Why NOT be polite?? Why NOT be inclusive?

And I'd doubt it's backfired on anyone except for the people who are still fussing about this cause it only resonates to the people who already agree with them. The rest of us just think it's pretty weird.

I agree with you. What opponents insist on is their right to say "Merry Christmas" because their holiday traditions are parmount to them.

I doubt Christ cares one way or the other about Christmas greetings. He was not born to originate the holiday of Christmas and start a culture war.

One thing that would NEVER occur to me, is to take for granted that every person I see out and about shopping at this time is a Christmas- celebrating- Christian.

Who I'd like to hear from are Christmas- celebrating- Christians, who don't buy the O'Reilly Culture War argument. I want to hear from Christians who have no problem sometimes saying "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings" instead of 'Merry Christmas' to every stranger they meet on the street.

 

[catzmeow]

I don't remember anybody getting upset but the Christians. They are the ones who are offended that retailers wish to be inclusive by using the term Happy Holidays.

I've never been offended by someone wishing me a merry christmas, particularly if that wish is accompanied with a gift. It is the CHRISTIANS who (according to this thread) seem to get offended by being wished something generic, like Seasons Greetings or Happy Holidays.

 

[catzmeow]

It is much like when someone says "I'll pray for you". I am an atheist and don't pray but if someone knows that I have an illness in my family and says "I'll pray for you", I take it is a genuine wish for wellness. If I am in a heated debate with another rabid religionist and he uses "I'll pray for you" to say "I'll pray that you stop being stupid and see that I'm right" or as a closing FU when he can't think of anything else to say, then that is a whole different story. The intent has a lot to do with it.

YES. This is it, exactly. It's all about the intent. We don't pray, but I will say to someone who has suffered a loss, or is ill, "We'll thinking of you," and then follow up with a meal or cinnamon rolls or something to show our support for their family at a difficult time.

 

[catzmeow]

If the "War on Christmas" isn't real, how come you are so adamant in attempting to disprove a non-entity?

Perception is reality. The predominant faith believes itself under attack, and responds accordingly. This leaves those of us who are non-religious in a curiously defensive position.

Retailers screwed up trying to stay on top of the PC, secular game and it backfired for some of them because people are tired of this continual attack on our culture. And whether you like or not, and no matter how you want to spin it, Christmas is part of our culture. It makes most people happy. Which I guess is the problem. There's always that crowd that sees someone happy and has to find out why and then piss all over. They suck, so they want to make sure they share their suckiness with everyone else

.

Most of the atheists and agnostics on this board ALSO celebrate Christmas. None of us are offended by it. It is the Christians who seemingly get offended when OTHER traditions are also celebrated simultaneously, such as kwanzaa and Hannukah, and when retailers wish all their patrons a generic "happy holidays." It is an offensive position that the only holiday that matters at this time of year, apparently, is Christmas.

If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't. Don't know what's wrong with you younger folks that you can find a dark lining in every silver cloud. I grew up when every excuse to party was a GOOD one.

This is exactly why, even though we aren't at all religious, my house will always be one of the first on the block with Christmas lights and a big beautiful tree. I love the decorations!

No one is under attack here. Christians, your faith is not diminished by others who do not share it. In fact, it might be enlarged if you saw this time of year as a time to be especially gracious and joyous, versus being defensive and rude.

 

[WillowTree]

Originally Posted by YWN666 View Post
Maybe because they'd like to have their own religious beliefs acknowledged instead of having to always accomodate the wants of christians. It's about respect.



No, respect for everyone. If a store employee wishes a jewish person a Happy Hannukah, is that being disrespectful to you? Of course not. Drop the "poor little christian" act and read what I am saying for once. I never said christians can't say Merry Christmas.

Can you outline for me exactly how anyone is taking anything away from christians or being disrespectful to them?

well then we have no disagreement then,, I can say Merry Christmas and no one should get upset.. finally this is cool.. Merry Merry Christmas