War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[MikeK]

[...]

A better objective: Motivate more people to become successful capitalists and generate great wealth for themselves in the process. Stop worrying about the wealth at the top and create more wealth at the bottom instead. Stop whining about what others have and go get you some of your own, it's there, it can be done, it's being done every day.

What exactly do you mean by become a "successful capitalist?" What numbers denote a "successful capitalist?" And do you presume that to be a universal ambition?

Speaking for myself, I am quite content with my financial situation. My dissatisfaction exists in what I see happening to the hard-won American Middle Class. It is in simplest terms a goddam shame.

 

[MikeK]

Free market works..trickle down does not.

"Free market" capitalism is laissez-faire capitalism, which means no constraints, which has been the result of repealing those protective regulations which enabled the phenomenal prosperity that took place between the 40s and the 80s, which is when Reagan commenced the incremental deregulation which brought us to where we are today. If you and yours are middle class Americans you have cause to be profoundly resentful of "free market" capitalism. And if you have or intend to have children you have cause to be very concerned about their futures.

"Trickle down" economics, which is the Milton Friedman-style "supply side" economics that Ronald Reagan imposed on us. You are quite right in saying it doesn't work (for the middle class). But it works just fine for the One Percent who have siphoned up and are hoarding more than fifty percent of the Nation's wealth resources.

 

[Boss]

[...]

A better objective: Motivate more people to become successful capitalists and generate great wealth for themselves in the process. Stop worrying about the wealth at the top and create more wealth at the bottom instead. Stop whining about what others have and go get you some of your own, it's there, it can be done, it's being done every day.

What exactly do you mean by become a "successful capitalist?" What numbers denote a "successful capitalist?" And do you presume that to be a universal ambition?

Speaking for myself, I am quite content with my financial situation. My dissatisfaction exists in what I see happening to the hard-won American Middle Class. It is in simplest terms a goddam shame.

Well, according to the US Census Bureau statistics, what is happening to the middle class is, they are becoming wealthy. Here you go...

As you can see, the blue line represents middle class families, and they are declining since 1967. Where are they going? Well, they aren't dropping down to the lower income because those are declining too, albeit at a lesser rate. But look at what has happened to upper income families. That is where the middle income families are going. So your dissatisfaction is unwarranted, unless you have a problem with middle class families becoming wealthy.

Hey, it's good that you are content with your financial situation, I think most people probably are. However, those who aren't happy can do something about it in a society with free market capitalism. That's the really awesome thing about our system that you want to destroy.

Now, you asked me about becoming a successful capitalist and that's a tough question to answer here. It depends on so many factors and details, many of which are proprietary to the individual in question. There is not a universal answer that fits all, or else, everyone would be a successful capitalist. I can certainly give you a few examples.

A friend of mine recently had her hours cut back to part time due to the economy, and her husband was laid off. They are both in their 50s and had few options for employment. They didn't have enough 401k to retire so they were motivated to do something to keep their ship afloat. He began making custom writing pens from wood in his shop. She began making all kinds of dainty little crafts, jewelry, handbags, notepads and stationary, etc. They began marketing these on Etsy.com and set up an online web store. They also began going to craft fairs all around the area. I spoke with her last week, and she says they made more money last year than at any time when they were both working full time, and they have paid insurance and have replenished their retirement accounts from the money they took to start their venture.

What it took was motivation and the determination to make it happen. I have another friend who is much wealthier than I am. He is currently teaching me some of his secrets and it's fascinating. The other day, he bought 10 wedding gowns for $400 at an online barter exchange. Now he had no need for wedding gowns, he doesn't own a store or have any daughters who are going to get married, he just saw the opportunity to get a good deal and took it. Within an hour of his purchase, he made a few calls and sold one of the gowns for $400, recouping his investment. Now, any additional gowns he sells is pure profit. He bought 500 acres of timber land not too long ago... leased a contract to a timber company to cut the timber, and they paid him essentially what he paid for the land. But now, this guy is up at 5:30 AM getting things done, and doesn't go to bed until after midnight. He hustles his ass off, but it pays off.

So there are a couple examples of people using free market capitalism to be successful capitalists and prosper. AND... anyone can do it, this doesn't take some special degree or fluke of luck, just determination and ambition, believing in yourself and being motivated to succeed.

 

[Boss]

Free market works..trickle down does not.

"Free market" capitalism is laissez-faire capitalism, which means no constraints, which has been the result of repealing those protective regulations which enabled the phenomenal prosperity that took place between the 40s and the 80s, which is when Reagan commenced the incremental deregulation which brought us to where we are today. If you and yours are middle class Americans you have cause to be profoundly resentful of "free market" capitalism. And if you have or intend to have children you have cause to be very concerned about their futures.

"Trickle down" economics, which is the Milton Friedman-style "supply side" economics that Ronald Reagan imposed on us. You are quite right in saying it doesn't work (for the middle class). But it works just fine for the One Percent who have siphoned up and are hoarding more than fifty percent of the Nation's wealth resources.

Literally everything you are posting is straight out of Marx' Communist Manifesto. This is propaganda designed in the 19th century to address the dismal economics of European and Asian dynasties which offered little hope for the proletariat masses under their rule. The ONLY WAY you can make those same arguments appeal to people in America is to paint the picture of a dismal and hopeless situation that no one can do anything about. AND GRANTED... there are enough idiots and morons out there who will buy into this notion because it seems to sound promising. The problem is, it simply doesn't work.

Free market capitalism creates more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man, and there isn't anything else even remotely close.

 

[MikeK]

The "war" on the rich should be changed to the "emphasis" on the rich. They deserve a break right?

First we need to establish what is meant by "rich."

There always have been rich people in America but the only times resentful protest has risen toward a wealthy class was during the Robber Baron era of the early 1900s -- and now.

This Nation enjoyed great prosperity during the decades between the 40s and the 80s. That era gave rise to both the Great American Middle Class and to a great many millionaires -- who were the "rich" of that bountiful period. But there never were protests or the slightest criticism toward the "rich" of that era because they were accepted as a natural component of a prosperity in which the Nation's rising wealth was equitably distributed.

Today there is resentment expressed against the kind excessive wealth being hoarded by the Walton family, for one example, which is estimated to be at least ninety billion dollars! This resentment is justified by the fact that these greedy multi-billionaires refuse to pay their thousands of employees a living wage but instead advises them to apply for federal assistance (welfare) which many of them do receive -- which means your tax money is applied to supplement the Walton's fortune.

So, is the entrepreneur of the fifties who managed to earn five or ten million dollars the same kind of "rich" as the Waltons? Or is there a very substantial and politically important difference?

So there is no "war on the rich." But there is legitimately expressed resentment of the One Percent who are a modern-day version of the Robber Barons.

 

[Boss]

Utter bullshit, Mikey. Sam Walton built a successful capitalist enterprise by providing low cost goods to customers who wanted them. He was a pioneer in involving his employees in the profit sharing of the company, preferring to call them "associates" instead of employees, and offering a very generous stock plan. I personally know someone who worked for Walmart for 30 years and retired with a stock portfolio value of $1.2 million.

Store managers at Walmart on average, make more than any other store managers of similar retail outlets. You are just lashing out against Walmart because of the success they've had as capitalists and the wealth they now hold as a result of that success. THAT'S ALL! It has absolutely nothing to do with poor underpaid employees on welfare.

Walmart is all a part of this RABID vitriol against the rich by left-wing radical Marxist scum.

Now.... I have no problem whatsoever with you not doing business with Walmart. I personally do very little business with Walmart because I believe in supporting local businesses whenever I can. I will pay more for things that I know I could buy for less at Walmart, just to help the Mom & Pop. But everyone is not as blessed as I am and they need to save as much as possible, and Walmart is where they are going to shop. The Walton family is not forcing them to do that.

What YOU want is to be able to tell capitalists what they must pay employees, even though you've already established a minimum wage law which ensures people aren't exploited. It's a classic example of how no liberal socialist policy is EVER enough! You want to crush free market capitalism and have the goddamn government be your Walmart! And buddy boy, that's not going to happen... If we have to take up arms and put bullets through your head, that is NOT happening in America! We've fought too hard and too much blood has been spilled to protect what we have here, and you best understand it WILL be defended. You want a fucking war? You'll get it! We'll put you down like the RABID DOGS you've become.

 

[MikeK]

Utter bullshit, Mikey. Sam Walton built a successful capitalist enterprise by providing low cost goods to customers who wanted them. He was a pioneer in involving his employees in the profit sharing of the company, preferring to call them "associates" instead of employees, and offering a very generous stock plan. I personally know someone who worked for Walmart for 30 years and retired with a stock portfolio value of $1.2 million.

[...]

Really?

(Excerpt)

The facts are available via Google for anyone who is interested in the truth.


A new report claims that Wal-Mart’s wages could be costing taxpayers $900,000 to $1.75 million per year, per store.

“Wal-Mart’s The Low-Wage Drag on Our Economy: Wal-Mart’s low wages and their effect on taxpayers and economic growth” was prepared by the Democratic staff of the U.S. House Committee on Education and the Workforce and released today. The document claims to have calculated the cost to taxpayers in social services for workers paid the minimum wage.

It’s not the kind of summer blockbuster the American public expects, but it likely will become one.

It’s an update to the 2004 report: “Everyday Low Wages: The Hidden Price We All Pay for Wal-Mart.” That report sought to capture the public costs Wal-Mart’s business model imposes upon the nation’s taxpayers. It found that a hypothetical 200-person Wal-Mart store cost taxpayers an estimated $420,750 per year."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/2013/05/31/are-wal‐marts-low-wages-a-drag-on-the-economy-new-report-says-yes/

(Close)

The facts are available via Google for anyone who wishes to learn the truth.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Literally everything you are posting is straight out of Marx' Communist Manifesto.

[...]

If you have read and understood the communist manifesto you would know that under communism all personal assets are controlled by a central committee (government). Nobody owns anything. And any attempt to acquire and hoard substantial personal assets is a serious crime.

I have advocated imposing a twenty million dollar limit on accumulated personal assets, which is a diametric conflict with the most basic premise of communism. Most reasonably well-informed Americans know this. Those who don't know it can easily verify it via Google. Yet you repeatedly and vigorously insist I am advocating communism.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Now.... I have no problem whatsoever with you not doing business with Walmart. I personally do very little business with Walmart because I believe in supporting local businesses whenever I can.

[...]

Do you really?

The fact is WalMart is one of the leading causes of the demise of local ("Mom & Pop") businesses. So what you've said is another diametric conflict with the truth.

I'm wondering if you are presenting such boldly false comments because you've been so effectively brainwashed, or if you are consciously issuing brazenly false propaganda in the hope it will operate to brainwash others.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

What YOU want is to be able to tell capitalists what they must pay employees, even though you've already established a minimum wage law which ensures people aren't exploited. It's a classic example of how no liberal socialist policy is EVER enough!

[...]

If Government was not able to impose a minimum wage law the same kind of sweat-shop exploitation which was common prior to FDR's New Deal would exist today and workers would be performing back-breaking labor, flipping hamburgers, and a lot more for two bucks an hour. If you think the existing ($7.50) minimum hourly wage is substantial, Google up the minimum hourly wage in socialist Denmark -- which is known as the "Happiest country in the world." It's $20.00! And the businesses are doing just fine.

Again, if you doubt it, verify it via Google.

 

[Boss]

You are the one spewing propaganda from every orafice, Mikey.

YES, by all means people, go Google "Walmart low wages" and take note of how intensely focused the left wing radicals have become on this one particular capitalist entity. You'll find thousands of so-called "news stories" and blog ramblings about how Walmart is essentially operating sweat shops while becoming super-wealthy on the backs of it's workers. They've certainly got the bases covered on internet propaganda.

Walmart is successful because they offer quality products at low prices with friendly service. Millions of Americans, many of them poor and struggling, depend on Walmart for food, clothing, drugs, and basic supplies. These clowns would rather drive a stake through Walmart's heart to try and "punish the rich" instead of allowing this valuable asset to exist for so many. And destroying Walmart does absolutely NOTHING to the Walton family or their wealth! NADDA!

So once again, here they are... prepared to NUKE their own citizenry to try and get the richies!

DUMB DUMB DUMB... Dumbest idea in human history, on FULL display!

 

[Boss]

[...]

What YOU want is to be able to tell capitalists what they must pay employees, even though you've already established a minimum wage law which ensures people aren't exploited. It's a classic example of how no liberal socialist policy is EVER enough!

[...]

If Government was not able to impose a minimum wage law the same kind of sweat-shop exploitation which was common prior to FDR's New Deal would exist today and workers would be performing back-breaking labor, flipping hamburgers, and a lot more for two bucks an hour. If you think the existing ($7.50) minimum hourly wage is substantial, Google up the minimum hourly wage in socialist Denmark -- which is known as "Happiest country in the world." It's $20.00! And the businesses are doing just fine.

Again, if you doubt it, verify it via Google.

Why don't you fucking GO live in Denmark?

I'll buy your damn plane ticket!

 

[MikeK]

[...]

You want to crush free market capitalism and have the goddamn government be your Walmart! And buddy boy, that's not going to happen... If we have to take up arms and put bullets through your head, that is NOT happening in America! We've fought too hard and too much blood has been spilled to protect what we have here, and you best understand it WILL be defended. You want a fucking war? You'll get it! We'll put you down like the RABID DOGS you've become.

The irony in that vitriolic diatribe is there were lots of bullets to the heads of union movement strikers and lots of blood spilled by protesting workers during the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons prevailed over a brutally enforced system of wage slavery.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons prevailed over a brutally enforced system of wage slavery.

100% mistaken. It was period of greatest growth in American History!


The Robber Barons: Republicans Greatest Shame!

From: The Myth of The Robber Barrons by Forest McDonald


Edward Collins $33,000 per Atlantic crossing (page 7)
Cornelius Vanderbilt (robber barron) $15,000 per Atlantic crossing

Collins $600 NY to California
Vanderbilt (robber barron) 150 NY to California( page 12)


"James J Hill cut freight costs from 90 cents to 44 cents a pound" (page 34) and still made a profit while the heavily subsidized Union Pacific and Central Pacific always lost money

"Coopers charged 2.50 per barrel Rockefeller cut his to $.96" (Page 86)

"From 1865 to 1870, the price of kerosene dropped from 58 to 26 cents per gallon,
Rockefeller made profits during everyone of these years" (page 87)

"Before 1870, only the rich could afford whale oil and candles, The rest had to go to bed to save money. By 1870 with the drop in the price of Kerosene, the middle and working class people all over the nation could afford the one cent an hour that it cost to light their homes at night".( page 87)

"When Andrew Carnegie entered steel production in 1872, England dominated world production and the price of steel production was $56 per ton. By 1900 Carnegie Steel was manufacturing steel for $11.00 per ton and out stripping the entire production of England!" (page 126)

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You are the one spewing propaganda from every orafice, Mikey.

YES, by all means people, go Google "Walmart low wages" and take note of how intensely focused the left wing radicals have become on this one particular capitalist entity. You'll find thousands of so-called "news stories" and blog ramblings about how Walmart is essentially operating sweat shops while becoming super-wealthy on the backs of it's workers. They've certainly got the bases covered on internet propaganda.

Walmart is successful because they offer quality products at low prices with friendly service. Millions of Americans, many of them poor and struggling, depend on Walmart for food, clothing, drugs, and basic supplies. These clowns would rather drive a stake through Walmart's heart to try and "punish the rich" instead of allowing this valuable asset to exist for so many. And destroying Walmart does absolutely NOTHING to the Walton family or their wealth! NADDA!

So once again, here they are... prepared to NUKE their own citizenry to try and get the richies!

DUMB DUMB DUMB... Dumbest idea in human history, on FULL display!

well if they are worth $100 billion you could steal it all and distribute 30 dollars to every American! That would do them a lot of good!!

 

[Boss]

Yes.... It's important to remember, the so-called "robber barons" were not called that at the time! That phrase came into vogue among progressives many years later as they began their futile first war on the rich back in the early 20th century. These people were HEROES! They ushered in the Industrial Revolution and changed America for the absolute better and helped make us the #1 world superpower. Had it not been for these men, we'd be Mexico!

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Walmart is successful because they offer quality products at low prices with friendly service. Millions of Americans, many of them poor and struggling, depend on Walmart for food, clothing, drugs, and basic supplies. These clowns would rather drive a stake through Walmart's heart to try and "punish the rich" instead of allowing this valuable asset to exist for so many. And destroying Walmart does absolutely NOTHING to the Walton family or their wealth! NADDA!

WalMart could continue offering quality products at low prices but while paying their employees a living wage. However, if they did so the Walton family's money hoard would be only fifty billion dollars rather than the ninety billion dollars it is today.

That is the simple fact of the matter -- as well as a crystal clear example of what has gone wrong with the U.S. Economy. In a word, the engine of the problem is greed!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

[...]

Walmart is successful because they offer quality products at low prices with friendly service. Millions of Americans, many of them poor and struggling, depend on Walmart for food, clothing, drugs, and basic supplies. These clowns would rather drive a stake through Walmart's heart to try and "punish the rich" instead of allowing this valuable asset to exist for so many. And destroying Walmart does absolutely NOTHING to the Walton family or their wealth! NADDA!

WalMart could continue offering quality products at low prices while paying their employees a living wage. But if they did so the Walton family's money hoard would be only fifty billion dollars rather than the ninety billion dollars it is today.

That is the simple fact of the matter -- as well as a crystal clear example of what has gone wrong with the U.S. Economy. In a word, the engine of the problem is greed!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

a crystal clear example of what has gone wrong with the U.S. Economy. In a word, the engine of the problem is greed!

[/QUOTE]

too stupid of course!! You could steal $100 billion from them and only have $300 for each American. What they take for themselves is trivial. Does the idiot liberal understand now?

 

[MikeK]

Yes.... It's important to remember, the so-called "robber barons" were not called that at the time! That phrase came into vogue among progressives many years later as they began their futile first war on the rich back in the early 20th century. These people were HEROES! They ushered in the Industrial Revolution and changed America for the absolute better and helped make us the #1 world superpower. Had it not been for these men, we'd be Mexico!

The Industrial Revolution was accompanied by the Union Movement, which brought about the rise of the American Middle Class and the most productive, prosperous decades in our history -- the 40s through to the 80s, which is when Ronald Reagan changed the system to "supply side" economics. Which, facilitated by Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, led eventually to the 2008 collapse.

And here we are.