Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

[Newtonian]

You should read John 1. It is explained quite well. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. He is the Word -- who was WITH GOD and WAS GOD. John 1:1 GOD IS TRIUNE. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. He is called the Son of God because he was God and man...born of a woman. He created all things....therefore He is the Creator.

I'm very impressed of how accurate is your statement. I didn't know how well informed are today's churches about the proper identity of the messiah.

Let me see, "you are the respondent who is with Barn Sour and is Barn Sour", does such sound OK for you?

Since God is Father, Son, and Spirit then it sounds perfectly fine to me. He is three persons in one being. Just as Gen. 1:26 says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

As a human being, I am also triune...composed of body, soul, and spirit. When I create something (like a painting, for instance), I use my body, my soul, and often times my spirit to contribute to the thing I "create". I, of course, am not God so I cannot create the heavens and earth and such the way God did.

I think you are not responding directly to the phrase"was with God... was God" from which the phrase itself is showing that something is missing in it. Lets consider that such is poetry or that a word is missing in such phrase.

If John was to portrait the so called trinity, he should include the third person in his phrase, but he didn't.

In order to decipher that phrase, you must have to return back to Genesis, the first two chapters. Right there is the answer to that phrase of John.

Allow me to explain the reason of my advice.

The order to the disciples was to announce the good news. That's all.

The only message to be given to Israel and the rest of the world was announcing the Gospel, that the messiah died and was resurrected, that death has been conquered.

From here, in order to understand what such a sacrifice of Jesus means, the new followers were to learn the scriptures where the whole explanation is given.

The apostles never preached Genesis, or prophet Isaiah, neither about Moses. They never did it because that was not their job.

The apostles might have mentioned several biblical quotes from the scriptures (old testament for you) as "a granted known knowledge" that must have been acquired by the listeners thru teachings received in synagogues.

Yes. The new gentile disciples were complete ignorant of Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, etc. because they came from foreign religions. These gentiles didn't know about king David, the divided kingdom of Israel, etc. Then, how you think they will interpret the words of Jesus if they ignored what Jesus was talking about when Jesus said words like "from the beginning It was not so" in reference to the law of Moshe?

New believers were supposed to learn the Torah, the Prophet and the Scriptures right after they accepted Jesus as the messiah.

And the same it happened to many gentiles who didn't learn the "old testament" in order to understand "the new testament", the same is happening to you.

You grew up receiving biblical teachings from ignorant people. Your pastor is an ignorant because he also received teachings coming from other ignorant preachers. It is a long chain of pure ignorant people throughout generations.

I can bet you don't understand the first chapter of Genesis, then, how in the world you pretend to say you can understand the words of John?

John is talking to people who understood the Torah, not to you.

Go back to Genesis the first and second chapter.

That is the only way you will understand that phrase (incomplete or edited) was with God... was God.

By learning properly the bible from beginning to end, you will realize that such doctrine of the trinity is 100% false.

Well, we agree on the trinity doctrine being false. How could Jesus be "with God" and also be God as you point out.

However, you missed the Greek grammar evidence for John 1:1 and also Jesus' defense of his deity in John 10:34-36 where Jehovah calls other sons of God: "gods" (Hebrew elohim - literal plural) quoting Psalms 82:6
(KJV+) IH589 have said,H559 Ye are gods;H430 and allH3605 of youH859 are childrenH1121 of the most High.H5945

Concerning the Greek word for God (G2316/theos), Strong's Greek dictionary explains:'

G2316
θεός
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
Total KJV occurrences: 1343

In John 1:1 the first occurrence of theos is with G3588 (the Greek definite article = the) and hence means the Word was with the supreme Dininity. The second occurrence of theos is without the Greek definite article and means "a deity."

See the Greek here (from our interlinear):

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Therefore, using Strong's definitions, John 1:1 should read:

In the/a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the supreme Divinity, and the Word was a deity."

 

[luchitociencia]

Jesus was showing us what step we are going to go through while following after Him. No one has acknowledge God. Not even Moses in the beginning. Moses asked Him which god should I said that I had spoken too. And God replied back to him sternly. "I am who I said that I am!" There's only one God. And God will put us through suffering to the point of death to acknowledge who He is. Only his children calls on Him for help from the heart, not from the lips. And so get ready and pick up your cross.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Exodus 3:13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?

Romans 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

1 Kings 19:10 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”

Matthew 11:27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

You are using a faulty Bible translation which removes the Divine Name *H3068/Jehovah: and substitutes Lord. For example, note this accurate translation:

Exodus 3:15
Then God said once more to Moses:
“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham,+ the God of Isaac,+ and the God of Jacob,+ has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever,+ and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

Well I wish that the letter "J" was invented during the time of Christ. But since Martin Luther was the first to translated the Bible from its original form, Latin. That he was a German, which the German uses a "J" to replace the "ie". Like In ancient Latin. The name Jesus is spelled and pronounced with an "I" Ieosoos, (Hay-soos). But in Hebrew, it is pronounced Yawshua. But in German, it is pronounced Joshua, which means Savior.
But other translators in the past has used Martin Luther's translations to translate into other languages.
Like Yawkob is Jacob, but in the New testament, it is James.

J - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are correct about the letter J and also about the prefix Ie in Greek Iesous for the name Jesus. But why do you think the vowel "a" belongs in the prefix of names like Jesus that contain the Divine Name in the prefix?

Bible names with the Divine Name in the prefix usually have either "e" or "o" (or both). The only exception to this is when the Divine Name in abbreviated form (Jah or Yah) is in the prefix. The name Jacob does not contain the Divine Name - but you are correct about the "a" in the prefix of the name Jacob.

Where, for example, does the "e" come from in the name Jesus/Iesous? Or the "o" in the name John (compare the Greek and also the Hebrew forms of the name John).

The Hebrew forms of the name Jesus (all with the same definition) are translated into English with the long form prefix "Jeho" as in Jehoshua or the short form prefixes Je in Jeshua and Jo in Joshua.

The evidence is strong that the first two vowels of the Divine name are "e" and "o" not "a."

Would you like me to post more in depth the evidence for the spelling Jehovah rather than Yahweh (which has the vowels reversed and omits the vowel "o")?

Your spelling still is challenged by a King James bible from 1,600's which used "Iehouah" .

If they used "I" instead of "J", this signifies that its pronunciation -by antiquity and proximity to the original sound used in those past centuries- is more closer to the correct phonetic than your way to pronounce it.

And the use of "I" instead of "J" in that bible from 1611 still was happening even when the letter "J" -which appeared in 14th century- was already in use.

Also, the most common error is the replacement of "u" by "v" sound.

For example, the name of the famous king David in reality is Dauid or Dawid.

You ignore Hebrew language, and you solely are repeating what you were taught by your religion denomination.

You, like many in the world, have concentrated in the "vowels" (sounds) added to the letters forming the name of God, but paid no attention of how those four Hebrew letters phonetically sound when they form a word.

The structure of the Hebrew language is not in accord to the structure of the English, French, Greek, or any other language. Besides of this huge difference there are other factors acting in the pronunciation of several Hebrew words from in the bible. These factors are found in the new testament when you can see the differences which discard the interpretation made by the religious leaders in times of Jesus. This dude Jesus used the proper Hebrew pronunciation and people received the correct interpretation of the biblical passages. The religious leaders were pissed off because their "interpretation" based on "tradition" was shown as false. This is not only in traditions added by these leaders but by the tradition inherited even from before the law of Moses.

Jesus played with them like the cat with the mouse.

You see, the traditional phonetic in several Hebrew words in the bible is incorrect. That dude Jesus was a champion in Hebrew language, and one can tell about it by his teachings.

On the other hand, you are following the phonetic of some biblical words which are incorrect, not because the leaders in those times were bad people but because errors are always committed when information passes from one generation into another. Your assembly is not the only one in error, but it should look for a better understanding even if this task causes them first to recognize they were in error for several decades.

Definitively the pronunciation of the name of the biblical god is not "Jehovah", in this issue you are also in error.

 

[GreatestIam]

No J in Heblew so....NO. That means there are no Jews so it IsNtReal

What were they called?? I'm aware there no j in jew, they were Hebrews then. there was no Jesuses either.

Look just above where I point out that Jesus is a Greek word and why it might have been used.

Regards
DL

In the Hebrew, it's Yeshua.

Thanks for this.

Heros of 1,000 Faces need 1,000 names.

Do you know Joseph Campbell?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The disciples and even the Roman soldier -standing in front of the dead body- recognized Jesus as the Son of God.

I have no idea why people insist that Jesus was God himself.

It appears they suffer of reading comprehension problems or this is a fable invented by ignorance by new generations of believers.

You should read John 1. It is explained quite well. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. He is the Word -- who was WITH GOD and WAS GOD. John 1:1 GOD IS TRIUNE. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. He is called the Son of God because he was God and man...born of a woman. He created all things....therefore He is the Creator.

Jesus created the womb that grew her and the tit that fed her.

Interesting.

I wrote the above intentionally using "her", to remind you that if Jesus the Christ was born of a virgin, Jesus would have been biologically a female.

In reading, literally or not, we need to remember to use logos while reading mythos.

Regards
DL

 

[luchitociencia]

Well, we agree on the trinity doctrine being false. How could Jesus be "with God" and also be God as you point out.

However, you missed the Greek grammar evidence for John 1:1 and also Jesus' defense of his deity in John 10:34-36 where Jehovah calls other sons of God: "gods" (Hebrew elohim - literal plural) quoting Psalms 82:6
(KJV+) IH589 have said,H559 Ye are gods;H430 and allH3605 of youH859 are childrenH1121 of the most High.H5945

Concerning the Greek word for God (G2316/theos), Strong's Greek dictionary explains:'

G2316
θεός
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
Total KJV occurrences: 1343

In John 1:1 the first occurrence of theos is with G3588 (the Greek definite article = the) and hence means the Word was with the supreme Dininity. The second occurrence of theos is without the Greek definite article and means "a deity."

See the Greek here (from our interlinear):

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Therefore, using Strong's definitions, John 1:1 should read:

In the/a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the supreme Divinity, and the Word was a deity."

That is the missing word I was talking about, as I mentioned before:

I think you are not responding directly to the phrase"was with God... was God" from which the phrase itself is showing that something is missing in it. Lets consider that such is poetry or that a word is missing in such phrase.

You just have wrote the "second witness" which is the Greek translation of John's writings. The original writings must have been in Hebrew/Aramaic and would say the same expression but it is possible mentioning Hebrew subject instead of replacing him with definite articles.

The "first witness" is the Torah, the narration itself which describes the difference.

 

[Newtonian]

Well, Jehovah is a spelling, not a pronunciation - but I get your point. This is the spelling used in the popular edition of the King James Version:

Psalms 83:18
(KJV) That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Strong's Hebrew dictionary uses this spelling:

H3068
יְהֹוָה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Total KJV occurrences: 6521

Brown-Driver-Briggs also uses this spelling:

H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
BDB Definition:
Jehovah = “the existing One”
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H136
Part of Speech: noun proper deity
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1961

BDB is usually accurate - in this case they are wrong about the source of the vowels for Jehovah.

H136 is adonay/Lord - the vowels are a-o-a
H3068 is Yehovah - the vowels are e-o-a.

Many learned scholars make the same glaring error btw! But the more important thing is that BDB is correct is saying Jehovah is the proper name of the one true God.

However, our website is in 1,021 languages and we spell the Divine Name in many different ways in different languages not just the English spelling Jehovah.

If you want to check out the spellings see the 1,021 languages on our website by clicking on English and then selecting one of the languages:

www.jw.org

For example, in Albanian:

https://www.jw.org/sq/

Jehovait

In Bakoko:

https://www.jw.org/bkh/

Yehovah

In Yupka:

https://www.jw.org/yup/

Jeova

In Aja:

https://www.jw.org/ajg/

Yehowa

Of course, even when the spellings are the same, the pronunciation is often different in different languages.

In my next post I will try to provide a more extensive list of the variant spellings of the Divine Name we use in different languages.

 

[Newtonian]

This is a list of the spellings Bible translations use -those with different alphabets are excluded

A5 The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

• Aneityum: Ihova
• Arawak: Jehovah
• Awabakal: Yehóa
• Bangi: Yawe
• Batak (Toba): Jahowa
• Benga: Jěhova
• Bolia: Yawe
• Bube: Yehovah
• Bullom So: Jehovah
• Chácobo: Jahué
• Cherokee: Yihowa
• Chin (Hakha): Zahova
• Chippewa: Jehovah
• Choctaw: Chihowa
• Chuukese: Jiowa
• Croatian: Jehova
• Dakota: Jehowa
• Dobu: Ieoba
• Douala: Yehowa
• Dutch: Jehovah
• Efate (North): Yehova
• Efik: Jehovah
• English: Jehovah
• Éwé: Yehowa
• Fang: Jehôva
• Fijian: Jiova
• French: IHVH, yhwh
• Ga: Iehowa
• German: Jehovah; Jehova
• Gibario (dialect of Kerewo): Iehova
• Grebo: Jehova
• Hawaiian: Iehova
• Hebrew: יהוה
• Hindustani: Yihováh
• Hiri Motu: Iehova
• Ho-Chunk (Winnebago): Jehowa
• Ila: Yaave
• Iliku (dialect of Lusengo): Yawe
• Indonesian: YAHWEH
• Kala Lagaw Ya: Iehovan
• Kalanga: Yehova; Yahwe
• Kalenjin: Jehovah
• Kerewo: Iehova
• Kiluba: Yehova
• Kipsigis: Jehoba
• Kiribati: Iehova
• Kisonge: Yehowa
• Korean: 여호와
• Kosraean: Jeova
• Kuanua: Ieova
• Laotian: Yehowa
• Lele: Jehova
• Lewo: Yehova
• Lingala: Yawe
• Logo: Yehova
• Lomongo: Yawe; Yova
• Lonwolwol: Jehovah
• Lugbara: Yehova
• Luimbi: Yehova
• Luna: Yeoba
• Lunda: Yehova
• Luo: Yawe
• Luvale: Yehova
• Malagasy: Jehovah; Iehôvah
• Malo: Iova
• Marquesan: Iehova
• Marshallese: Jeova
• Maskelynes: Iova
• Mentawai: Jehoba
• Meriam: Iehoua
• Misima-Paneati: Iehova
• Mizo: Jehovan; Jihova’n
• Mohawk: Yehovah
• Mortlockese: Jioua
• Motu: Iehova
• Mpongwe (dialect of Myene): Jehova
• Muskogee: Cehofv
• Myene: Yeôva
• Naga, Angami: Jihova
• Naga, Konyak: Jihova
• Naga, Lotha: Jihova
• Naga, Mao: Jihova
• Naga, Northern Rengma: Jihova
• Naga, Sangtam: Jihova
• Nandi: Jehova
• Narrinyeri: Jehovah
• Nauruan: Jehova
• Navajo: Jîho’vah
• Ndau: Jehova
• Nembe: Jehovah
• Nengone (or, Maré): Iehova
• Ngando: Yawe
• Ntomba: Yawe
• Nukuoro: Jehova
• Polish: Jehowa
• Portuguese: Iáhve
• Rarotongan: Jehova; Iehova
• Rerep: Iova
• Rotuman: Jihova
• Sakao: Ihova; Iehova
• Samoan: Ieova
• Seneca: Ya’wĕn
• Sengele: Yawe
• Sesotho: Yehofa
• Sie: Iehōva
• Spanish: Jehová; Yahvé; YHWH; Yahweh
• Sranantongo: Jehova
• Sukuma: Yahuwa; Jakwe
• Tahitian: Iehova
• Teke-Eboo: Yawe
• Temne: Yehṓfa; Yehofa
• Thai: Yahowa
• Toaripi: Jehova; Iehova
• Tonga: Jehova
• Tongan: Jihova; Sihova
• Tshiluba: Yehowa
• Tswana: Jehofa; Yehova; Yehofa
• Umbundu: Yehova
• Uripiv: Iova
• Wampanoag: Jehovah
• Welsh: Iehofah
• Xhosa: Yehova
• Zande: Yekova
• Zulu: Jehova; YAHWE

 

[barn sour]

Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus seems unaware that he was God.

What did Jesus mean by forsaken?

The usual definition means abandoned or deserted.

How can one abandon or desert themselves?

If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh?

Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him?

Further.

Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side.

If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different?

Regards
DL

Those weren't Jesus' last words. In his last utterance, he referred to God as his Father again. “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” (Lk 23:46).

Strange that there are two different sayings for his last words. Someone is lying.

That aside.

Jesus also said that he and the Father were one. If you have seen me, you have seen the father.

Into my hands I commit my spirit sounds funny. No?

Regards
DL

Strange that his last words were not, at any rate, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". Yes, someone is lying.

That aside.

Jesus and the Father were one, yes, when they were one. Not when he was a curse.

There is another possibility. Was He actually forsaken? Or was that just the cry of His humanity as He was dying (giving up His spirit). In fact, it was a direct quote from Psalm 22--another proof that He was the promised Messiah.

Psalm 22:16-24 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

If Jesus was not forsaken, then he was mistaken. That's not the way I see it.

His cry of dereliction on the Cross did not emanate from his physical torture; he had already suffered long painful agony by the time he cried out to God. He had already expected to suffer this miserable death; it was part of the divine plan, as evidenced in his prayers in Gethsemane. He cried out because he became a curse, redeeming his people from the curse of the law (Gal 3:10-13). “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46). Like David in his twenty-second Psalm, Jesus lost his connection to the tree of life. He called out not to his Father, but to God. He was a curse – not physically, unless we say that God erred in His creation of nature; on that cross, when he bore the sins of mankind, he was a spiritual curse. But then, as with David, the estrangement did not last.

While David may at times have been faithful and at times unfaithful, Jesus was resurrected.

I'm not sure what you mean by a spiritual curse. However -- there could well be other reasons for why Jesus spoke the words He did while on the cross. One of those reasons is the fulfilment of prophecy concerning Psalm 22 which spoke of the Messiah.

I don't believe you can separate His words from what comes later in the same Psalm.
The reassurance is there....neither hath He hid His face from him....

Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

The fact that the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Him bodily means He was well aware of the fact that He was not actually abandoned. In His humanity, though, I'm sure he was feeling the pain of the sin He bore in our stead.

The "fullness" was not unique to Jesus as trinitarians often assert. You have reference to Colossians 2:9 KJV btw. Note, for example:

(KJV+) Eph_3:19 AndG5037 to knowG1097 theG3588 loveG26 of Christ,G5547 which passethG5235 knowledge,G1108 thatG2443 ye might be filledG4137 withG1519 allG3956 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of God.G2316

You are correct about the 22nd Psalm - I also posted that point. Another example:

Psalms 22:18
They divide my garments among themselves,
And they cast lots for my clothing.+

Interesting that you quoted verse 24 on this thread - whom do you think Jesus cried out to - himself?

This is a good cross reference to your point - but note Jesus "learned obedience."

Hebrews 5:7-10
During his life on earth,* Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears,+ to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.+ 9 And after he had been made perfect,+ he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,+ 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.+

Oh, and Jehovah did abandon him to death as foretold in Isaiah chapter 53 which see. Btw, God cannot die, but Jesus died for our sins.

Your post consistently denies the fact that the man, Jesus Christ, is and was also God, the Creator of all things. Therefore, every point you made is based upon a faulty premise.

BTW - where do you see Jehovah abandoning Jesus in Isaiah 53?

 

[barn sour]

I'm not sure what you mean by a spiritual curse.

Spiritual alienation. Spiritual death. I thought I made that clear.

However -- there could well be other reasons for why Jesus spoke the words He did while on the cross. One of those reasons is the fulfilment of prophecy concerning Psalm 22 which spoke of the Messiah.

I don't believe you can separate His words from what comes later in the same Psalm.
The reassurance is there....neither hath He hid His face from him....

Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

The fact that the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Him bodily means He was well aware of the fact that He was not actually abandoned. In His humanity, though, I'm sure he was feeling the pain of the sin He bore in our stead.

You're not saying anything here. If Jesus wasn't actually abandoned, then he was mistaken. If that's what you believe, that's your prerogative.

So you think Jesus died a spiritual death?
That's impossible. In fact, at His physical death, He commended His spirit to God.

Jesus was fulfilling scripture. He wasn't mistaken at all. He was quoting from a Psalm which had explained why He felt abandoned, but had indeed been heard by God.

 

[barn sour]

The disciples and even the Roman soldier -standing in front of the dead body- recognized Jesus as the Son of God.

I have no idea why people insist that Jesus was God himself.

It appears they suffer of reading comprehension problems or this is a fable invented by ignorance by new generations of believers.

You should read John 1. It is explained quite well. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. He is the Word -- who was WITH GOD and WAS GOD. John 1:1 GOD IS TRIUNE. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. He is called the Son of God because he was God and man...born of a woman. He created all things....therefore He is the Creator.

Jesus created the womb that grew her and the tit that fed her.

Interesting.

I wrote the above intentionally using "her", to remind you that if Jesus the Christ was born of a virgin, Jesus would have been biologically a female.

In reading, literally or not, we need to remember to use logos while reading mythos.

Regards
DL

Unfortunately you don't understand the Godhead and that causes you to make these kinds of errors. The premise that God became flesh and dwelt among us seems to elude you. God the Father, sent the Holy Spirit to impregnate a virgin, and the Son of God came into this world. He came to die for the sins of mankind. God is more than able to perform that miracle. It's the lack of faith in their Creator that keeps some men from believing God is ABLE to do exactly what He promised.

 

[luchitociencia]

I'm glad seeing your interest in knowing the name of God.

You have posted the pronunciation made by several peoples.

Same as a German dude will pronounce "Havaii" the proper name "Hawaii", same as well the different peoples will pronounce the name of God according to their dialect if not their language. The dialect of Californians is a kind different than the dialect from people from the Bronx in New York.

The pronunciation of the name of the creator is well beyond the way people say it. Allow me to give you an example. I say, "hey! Newtonian, you forgot the.. ??? of the letter... ??? ... duhhh".

Got it?

The Hebrew language sounds different when you say "Hanukah". In Hebrew the first "h" sounds like grasping your throat, like when you make gargles, something completely different than pronouncing it like "happiness".

The pronunciation of the name of God is not known by grammatical deduction alone.

You will reach it, but I don't think you will fulfill such task if you keep practicing the doctrines of your assembly.

Using dictionaries and books won't help you. The Strong Concordance is partially accurate, and is based on the King James version, something that causes an obstacle in order for you to obtain better results in your search of definitions of Hebrew words.

Start to practice the doctrines of the bible, not only learning but practicing.

If you are a dude who prays, then don't ask for discovering the name, or receiving wisdom, or anything, just practice the doctrines of God, and you will receive wisdom, it will be "automatically". A gift. You can ask for finding a job or your aunt to be cured, but things for your own "gain" you better change your heart first, and perhaps your god will have mercy.

I see you fighting and fighting trying to find the origin of life, the name of God, and more, looking for those here and there, and the question is, why are you "fighting" for those things?

Can't you see that if you are a son of God then he will reveal to you what you look for and no questions asked?

Where is your faith... if any?

Jesus said his mother, brothers, step sisters, adopted nephew, etc are the ones who obey God. The method is simple, but you are making it so complicated for you... I don't understand you... at least try what I'm telling you for a week...

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Language Of Idiom Excisions Relegates Those Ignorant Inn Two Sea An Idiot "

* Haploid Gametes Of The Son As Ones With The Father *

How is it that abrahamic religions equivocate an eponymous patriarch of shem with the intrapersonal interests of its deity ?

Shem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Shem HaMephorash (Hebrew: שם המפורש, alternatively Shem ha-Mephorash or Schemhamphoras), meaning the explicit name, is an originally Tannaitic term[1] describing a hidden name of God in Kabbalah (including Christian and Hermetic variants), and in some more mainstream Jewish discourses. It is composed of either 4, 12, 22, 42, or 72 letters (or triads of letters), the last version being the most common.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8]

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The "72-fold name" is highly important to Sefer Raziel,[5][7] and a key (but often missing) component to the magical practices in the Lesser Key of Solomon.[8] It is derived from Exodus 14:19-21,[2][4][5][6] read boustrophedonically[3][8] to produce 72 names of three letters. This method was explained by Rashi, (b. Sukkah 45a).[9] Kabbalist and occultist legends state that the 72-fold name was used by Moses to cross the Red Sea, and that it can grant later holymen the power to cast out demons, heal the sick, prevent natural disasters, and even kill enemies.[6]

Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In human genetics, a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup is a haplogroup defined by mutations in the non-recombining portions of DNA from the Y chromosome (called Y-DNA). Many people within a haplogroup share a type of mutation called single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs).[1]

The human Y-chromosome accumulates roughly two mutations per generation.[2] Y-DNA haplogroups represent major branches of the Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree that share hundreds or even thousands of mutations unique to each haplogroup.

The Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor (Y-MRCA, informally known as Y-chromosomal Adam) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all currently living humans are descended patrilineally. Y-chromosomal Adam is estimated to have lived roughly 236,000 years ago in Africa. By examining other bottlenecks most Eurasian men (men from populations outside of Africa) are descended from a man who lived 69,000 years ago. Other major bottlenecks occurred about 50,000 and 5,000 years ago and subsequently most Eurasian/non-African men can trace their ancestry back to four ancestors who lived 50,000 years ago.[3][4][5]


* Add On About Paranoia Projections And Natural Occurrence *

Golden ratio - Wikipedia correspond with means of extremes and cross points of a Pentagram - Wikipedia where an interior angle of 72 degrees is bonding and an exterior angle of 108 degrees is loosening - Curse of the Billy Goat - Wikipedia .

 

[Avatar4321]

The fact that the Pharisees tried to stone Him for saying He was Jehovah straight out tells anyone paying attention that He does

 

[luchitociencia]

" Language Of Idiom Excisions Relegates Those Ignorant Inn Two Sea An Idiot "

* Haploid Gametes Of The Son As Ones With The Father *

How is it that abrahamic religions equivocate an eponymous patriarch of shem with the intrapersonal interests of its deity ?

Shem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Shem HaMephorash (Hebrew: שם המפורש, alternatively Shem ha-Mephorash or Schemhamphoras), meaning the explicit name, is an originally Tannaitic term[1] describing a hidden name of God in Kabbalah (including Christian and Hermetic variants), and in some more mainstream Jewish discourses. It is composed of either 4, 12, 22, 42, or 72 letters (or triads of letters), the last version being the most common.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8]

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shem HaMephorash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The "72-fold name" is highly important to Sefer Raziel,[5][7] and a key (but often missing) component to the magical practices in the Lesser Key of Solomon.[8] It is derived from Exodus 14:19-21,[2][4][5][6] read boustrophedonically[3][8] to produce 72 names of three letters. This method was explained by Rashi, (b. Sukkah 45a).[9] Kabbalist and occultist legends state that the 72-fold name was used by Moses to cross the Red Sea, and that it can grant later holymen the power to cast out demons, heal the sick, prevent natural disasters, and even kill enemies.[6]

Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In human genetics, a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup is a haplogroup defined by mutations in the non-recombining portions of DNA from the Y chromosome (called Y-DNA). Many people within a haplogroup share a type of mutation called single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs).[1]

The human Y-chromosome accumulates roughly two mutations per generation.[2] Y-DNA haplogroups represent major branches of the Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree that share hundreds or even thousands of mutations unique to each haplogroup.

The Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor (Y-MRCA, informally known as Y-chromosomal Adam) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all currently living humans are descended patrilineally. Y-chromosomal Adam is estimated to have lived roughly 236,000 years ago in Africa. By examining other bottlenecks most Eurasian men (men from populations outside of Africa) are descended from a man who lived 69,000 years ago. Other major bottlenecks occurred about 50,000 and 5,000 years ago and subsequently most Eurasian/non-African men can trace their ancestry back to four ancestors who lived 50,000 years ago.[3][4][5]


* Add On About Paranoia Projections And Natural Occurrence *

Golden ratio - Wikipedia correspond with means of extremes and cross points of a Pentagram - Wikipedia where an interior angle of 72 degrees is bonding and an exterior angle of 108 degrees is loosening - Curse of the Billy Goat - Wikipedia .

Lets make it easy for everybody.

The ancient men knew the name of God without need of being Jewish, Christians, Muslims, Atheists or Republicans. (Read Genesis 4)

This is because the name of god was given to them not by reading it but by listening it. And it was not a man who told them that name.

At the time of the pharisees, they themselves didn't know how to pronounce the name of God, and Jesus, who was assumed to be a man but having also a divine origin, he told the name of God to his disciples. (Read his prayer in John 17)

The whole Kabbalah and similar secret stuff is just a way to cover up themselves in order to avoid for others to know that kabbalah dudes don't know sh*t.

And about the DNA. The further DNA results can go is geographic, DNA results won't give by any means chronological results. So, forget about those ages you just posted with your link, The dudes who made that report are pulling your legs.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Back Channel Lore For Elementatl Invocation Of Principalities "

* Conceptualizing Willful Intents And Projecting Existential States *

Lets make it easy for everybody.
The ancient men knew the name of God without need of being Jewish, Christians, Muslims, Atheists or Republicans. (Read Genesis 4)
This is because the name of god was given to them not by reading it but by listening it. And it was not a man who told them that name.
At the time of the pharisees, they themselves didn't know how to pronounce the name of God, and Jesus, who was assumed to be a man but having also a divine origin, he told the name of God to his disciples. (Read his prayer in John 17)
The whole Kabbalah and similar secret stuff is just a way to cover up themselves in order to avoid for others to know that kabbalah dudes don't know sh*t.
And about the DNA. The further DNA results can go is geographic, DNA results won't give by any means chronological results. So, forget about those ages you just posted with your link, The dudes who made that report are pulling your legs.

Is this a discussion about out land dish hermitic boasting for an ability to control para normal affects ?

To affirm a strong anthropic principle , which is a tautology , one must be present and able to assert that its self exists , else one is not present and able to assert that its self exists .

A means to satisfy a strong anthropic principle is by means of procreation , where both figuratively and literally , through offspring one remains present and able to assert that its self exists .

Hermeticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sefirot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of sigils of demons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Ninth Gate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

" Back Channel Lore For Elementatl Invocation Of Principalities "

* Conceptualizing Willful Intents And Projecting Existential States *

Lets make it easy for everybody.
The ancient men knew the name of God without need of being Jewish, Christians, Muslims, Atheists or Republicans. (Read Genesis 4)
This is because the name of god was given to them not by reading it but by listening it. And it was not a man who told them that name.
At the time of the pharisees, they themselves didn't know how to pronounce the name of God, and Jesus, who was assumed to be a man but having also a divine origin, he told the name of God to his disciples. (Read his prayer in John 17)
The whole Kabbalah and similar secret stuff is just a way to cover up themselves in order to avoid for others to know that kabbalah dudes don't know sh*t.
And about the DNA. The further DNA results can go is geographic, DNA results won't give by any means chronological results. So, forget about those ages you just posted with your link, The dudes who made that report are pulling your legs.

Is this a discussion about out land dish hermitic boasting for an ability to control para normal affects ?

To affirm a strong anthropic principle , which is a tautology , one must be present and able to assert that its self exists , else one is not present and able to assert that its self exists .

A means to satisfy a strong anthropic principle is by means of procreation , where both figuratively and literally , through offspring one remains present and able to assert that its self exists .

Hermeticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sefirot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of sigils of demons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Ninth Gate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think therefore I am.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Dichotomy Of Non Falsifiable Belief "

* Codependency Contingency Upon Thoughts Of Others And Sophisticated Physical States *

I think therefore I am.

Not , I am therefore I think .

 

[Newtonian]

Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus seems unaware that he was God.

What did Jesus mean by forsaken?

The usual definition means abandoned or deserted.

How can one abandon or desert themselves?

If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh?

Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him?

Further.

Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side.

If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different?

Regards
DL

Those weren't Jesus' last words. In his last utterance, he referred to God as his Father again. “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” (Lk 23:46).

Strange that there are two different sayings for his last words. Someone is lying.

That aside.

Jesus also said that he and the Father were one. If you have seen me, you have seen the father.

Into my hands I commit my spirit sounds funny. No?

Regards
DL

Strange that his last words were not, at any rate, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". Yes, someone is lying.

That aside.

Jesus and the Father were one, yes, when they were one. Not when he was a curse.

There is another possibility. Was He actually forsaken? Or was that just the cry of His humanity as He was dying (giving up His spirit). In fact, it was a direct quote from Psalm 22--another proof that He was the promised Messiah.

Psalm 22:16-24 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

If Jesus was not forsaken, then he was mistaken. That's not the way I see it.

His cry of dereliction on the Cross did not emanate from his physical torture; he had already suffered long painful agony by the time he cried out to God. He had already expected to suffer this miserable death; it was part of the divine plan, as evidenced in his prayers in Gethsemane. He cried out because he became a curse, redeeming his people from the curse of the law (Gal 3:10-13). “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46). Like David in his twenty-second Psalm, Jesus lost his connection to the tree of life. He called out not to his Father, but to God. He was a curse – not physically, unless we say that God erred in His creation of nature; on that cross, when he bore the sins of mankind, he was a spiritual curse. But then, as with David, the estrangement did not last.

While David may at times have been faithful and at times unfaithful, Jesus was resurrected.

I'm not sure what you mean by a spiritual curse. However -- there could well be other reasons for why Jesus spoke the words He did while on the cross. One of those reasons is the fulfilment of prophecy concerning Psalm 22 which spoke of the Messiah.

I don't believe you can separate His words from what comes later in the same Psalm.
The reassurance is there....neither hath He hid His face from him....

Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

The fact that the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Him bodily means He was well aware of the fact that He was not actually abandoned. In His humanity, though, I'm sure he was feeling the pain of the sin He bore in our stead.

The "fullness" was not unique to Jesus as trinitarians often assert. You have reference to Colossians 2:9 KJV btw. Note, for example:

(KJV+) Eph_3:19 AndG5037 to knowG1097 theG3588 loveG26 of Christ,G5547 which passethG5235 knowledge,G1108 thatG2443 ye might be filledG4137 withG1519 allG3956 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of God.G2316

You are correct about the 22nd Psalm - I also posted that point. Another example:

Psalms 22:18
They divide my garments among themselves,
And they cast lots for my clothing.+

Interesting that you quoted verse 24 on this thread - whom do you think Jesus cried out to - himself?

This is a good cross reference to your point - but note Jesus "learned obedience."

Hebrews 5:7-10
During his life on earth,* Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears,+ to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.+ 9 And after he had been made perfect,+ he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,+ 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.+

Oh, and Jehovah did abandon him to death as foretold in Isaiah chapter 53 which see. Btw, God cannot die, but Jesus died for our sins.

Your post consistently denies the fact that the man, Jesus Christ, is and was also God, the Creator of all things. Therefore, every point you made is based upon a faulty premise.

BTW - where do you see Jehovah abandoning Jesus in Isaiah 53?

Thank you for asking:

Isaiah 53:10-12
But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him;+ he made him sick.+ If you will set his soul* as a guilt offering,+ he will see his offspring,+ he will prolong [his] days,+ and in his hand what is the delight+ of Jehovah will succeed.+ 11 Because of the trouble of his soul he will see,*+ he will be satisfied.+ By means of his knowledge* the righteous one, my servant,+ will bring a righteous standing to many people;+ and their errors he himself will bear.+ 12 For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many,+ and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil,+ due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death,+ and it was with the transgressors that he was counted in;+ and he himself carried the very sin of many people,+ and for the transgressors he proceeded to interpose.+

Notice also that the Messiah/Christ/anointed one was to pour out his soul unto death (KJV) as a sin offering for atonement (cp. Daniel 9:124-27). God cannot die, but Jesus died for our sins - see John 3:16 & cfrs.

Jehovah is the Creator, Jesus was the one through whom God created all things:

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; 16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+

[Note: "other" in NW means other than Jehovah and Jesus - e.g. Jehovah and Jesus were not created by Jehovah through Jesus - all is not always absolute in Greek - see vs. 23 - the gospel was preached in ALL creation.]

The Greek word for "through" in Col. 1:16 is shown in our Greek interlinear here (along with other translations):

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

The Greek word is di/through/channel of an act. See Strong's Greek dictionary here:

G1223
διά
dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import:...

So, Jesus was the channel of the acts of creation by Jehovah - the same is shown in Proverbs 8:22-31.

Jesus is the only-begotten (Greek monogenes = only born) firstborn (Greek prototokos) Son of God. Jehovah has never been begotten or born in any sense of these Greek words. Simply: Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the Son.

Jesus never claimed to be the Father Jehovah - Jesus prayed to Jehovah not to himself. Jesus said in Matthew 6:9 - "Hallowed be thy name" not Hallowed be my name.

 

[ding]

" Dichotomy Of Non Falsifiable Belief "

* Codependency Contingency Upon Thoughts Of Others And Sophisticated Physical States *

I think therefore I am.

Not , I am therefore I think .

Everything is information. What better mechanism for information to become manifest than mind.

It seems that you are the one who is codependent upon physical state. I am free.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Discussions With Ass Clown Neophytes "

* Kid Gloves *

Everything is information. What better mechanism for information to become manifest than mind.
It seems that you are the one who is codependent upon physical state. I am free.

It is obvious that you have not attended to even an hour of computer science , because you do not understand the difference between data and information - Data vs Information - Difference and Comparison | Diffen .

Equally obvious is that you do not understand the requirements of sophisticated physical state required to garner information from data that parallels your witless conjectures about the homunculus and cognition from conception .

.