Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

[LittleNipper]

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

If Yahweh said, "Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" according to the Scripture, Psalms 82:6, then Jesus could well have asked this question of Pilate who condemned him, the disciples who fled, and the soldiers who did the deed and parted his garments. Or if the Romans themselves were gods or they worshiped other gods who were not faithful.

Well, Psalms 82:6 is using a specific definition of deity; "mighty ones." It is possible Jehovah was referring to human judges as the Targums read in Psalms 82:1 - though other manuscripts read angels. Either way - they were NOT worshiped. Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 in his defense of his deity at John 12:34-36.

And Jesus never told us to worship him. Jesus revealed to us the greatest commandment in the Bible. It was to love who? (Mark 12:28-34 quoting Deuteronomy 6:4,5). Note, however, that many Bible translations remove the Divine Name in all of its 3 occurrences in this quote of the Hebrew text of Deuteronomy 6:4,5. These translators and copyists only remove God's name in their Bible translations - all other Bible names, including the name of false gods like Dagon, are retained - now why is that?.

For the nearly 7,000 times KJV removes the name Jehovah and substitutes Lord - see Strong's Exhaustive concordance under "Lord" and note how often Lord is substituted for H3068/Yehovah/Jehovah compared with how often the Hebrew text actually reads Lord (H113/adon and H136 adonay.

But, thankfully, KJV retains the Divine Name Jehovah 4 times - here is one example:

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Psalm 83:18
King James Version
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Jesus clearly told Satan when tempted by him that ------ and I quote, "You can not tempt the LORD your GOD."
And when Thomas the Apostle fell down and said, "My LORD and my GOD," when Jesus revealed HIMSELF to Thomas, Jesus clearly didn't chastise Thomas for misplaced worship. Jesus deserved every once of it! And when Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees when HE clearly stated to the crippled man, "Your sins are forgiven!" Jesus never said, "You're right, I'm bad", when they said that only GOD can forgive sin."

 

[GreatestIam]

The disciples and even the Roman soldier -standing in front of the dead body- recognized Jesus as the Son of God.

I have no idea why people insist that Jesus was God himself.

It appears they suffer of reading comprehension problems or this is a fable invented by ignorance by new generations of believers.

You should read John 1. It is explained quite well. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. He is the Word -- who was WITH GOD and WAS GOD. John 1:1 GOD IS TRIUNE. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. He is called the Son of God because he was God and man...born of a woman. He created all things....therefore He is the Creator.

Jesus created the womb that grew her and the tit that fed her.

Interesting.

I wrote the above intentionally using "her", to remind you that if Jesus the Christ was born of a virgin, Jesus would have been biologically a female.

In reading, literally or not, we need to remember to use logos while reading mythos.

Regards
DL

Unfortunately you don't understand the Godhead and that causes you to make these kinds of errors. The premise that God became flesh and dwelt among us seems to elude you. God the Father, sent the Holy Spirit to impregnate a virgin, and the Son of God came into this world. He came to die for the sins of mankind. God is more than able to perform that miracle. It's the lack of faith in their Creator that keeps some men from believing God is ABLE to do exactly what He promised.

Thanks for telling me what I understand, from behind your supernatural shield where you can never be wrong, nor prove you are right.

I noted that you were a literalist who believes in all kinds of supernatural things that you claim are true, --- but cannot prove.

I will engage if you come out from behind your liars supernatural mythos, and want to use logos instead of lying.

Here is the intelligent way to talk of god.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Gnostic Christians believed the God of Abraham was the evil God, dipshit.

You aren't a Gnostic Christian. You don't even know what Gnostic Christians believe.

Nothing supernatural, goof.

Yahweh is fantasy.

The intelligentsia agrees.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Understanding God as triune enlists the baptismal celebration phrasing in Matthew 28:19-20 (The Great Commission, as it is sometimes called). The invocation "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" uses the singular word "name" — onoma in Greek — rather than the plural word "names." Some will argue that onoma should be translated as "by the authority of," the primary meaning which credible Greek lexicons say this word had in New Testament times is absolutely "proper name" or "the name by which a person or thing is called."

Being baptized in the "name" of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is a way of affirming the oneness that was in Peter's mind as he spoke of Jesus in Acts 4:12 and said: "There is no other name" by which we "must be saved."

True, the word "triune" or even trinity is not in the Bible. Those words are, however, useful in tying together what the First Century church understood about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit without falling into a tritheism (a belief in three gods). The words Triune or Trinity conveniently wrap up into one word all the Biblical data that point to Jesus as Yahweh incarnate and to the Holy Spirit as God himself. While the word "trinity" is not actually in the Bible, the concept certainly is!

Does it seem rational to say that Yahweh expresses Himself in three separate persons, yet exists as one single entity? No, it doesn't seem rational to us human beings . . . but then the creation of an entire universe from nothing doesn't seem rational to human beings either.

Christianity is not about rationality.

They know it and don't care. Tribal needs over pride.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

The disciples and even the Roman soldier -standing in front of the dead body- recognized Jesus as the Son of God.

I have no idea why people insist that Jesus was God himself.

It appears they suffer of reading comprehension problems or this is a fable invented by ignorance by new generations of believers.

You should read John 1. It is explained quite well. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. He is the Word -- who was WITH GOD and WAS GOD. John 1:1 GOD IS TRIUNE. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. He is called the Son of God because he was God and man...born of a woman. He created all things....therefore He is the Creator.

Jesus created the womb that grew her and the tit that fed her.

Interesting.

I wrote the above intentionally using "her", to remind you that if Jesus the Christ was born of a virgin, Jesus would have been biologically a female.

In reading, literally or not, we need to remember to use logos while reading mythos.

Regards
DL

Unfortunately you don't understand the Godhead and that causes you to make these kinds of errors. The premise that God became flesh and dwelt among us seems to elude you. God the Father, sent the Holy Spirit to impregnate a virgin, and the Son of God came into this world. He came to die for the sins of mankind. God is more than able to perform that miracle. It's the lack of faith in their Creator that keeps some men from believing God is ABLE to do exactly what He promised.

Thanks for telling me what I understand, from behind your supernatural shield where you can never be wrong, nor prove you are right.

I noted that you were a literalist who believes in all kinds of supernatural things that you claim are true, --- but cannot prove.

I will engage if you come out from behind your liars supernatural mythos, and want to use logos instead of lying.

Here is the intelligent way to talk of god.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Gnostic Christians believed the God of Abraham was the evil God, dipshit.

You aren't a Gnostic Christian. You don't even know what Gnostic Christians believe.

Nothing supernatural, goof.

Yahweh is fantasy.

The intelligentsia agrees.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

But Gnostic Christians believe in the supernatural, goof.

You are a secular humanist in sheep's clothing.

 

[GreatestIam]

Go troll and lie to others.

Regards
DL

 

[LittleNipper]

Understanding God as triune enlists the baptismal celebration phrasing in Matthew 28:19-20 (The Great Commission, as it is sometimes called). The invocation "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" uses the singular word "name" — onoma in Greek — rather than the plural word "names." Some will argue that onoma should be translated as "by the authority of," the primary meaning which credible Greek lexicons say this word had in New Testament times is absolutely "proper name" or "the name by which a person or thing is called."

Being baptized in the "name" of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is a way of affirming the oneness that was in Peter's mind as he spoke of Jesus in Acts 4:12 and said: "There is no other name" by which we "must be saved."

True, the word "triune" or even trinity is not in the Bible. Those words are, however, useful in tying together what the First Century church understood about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit without falling into a tritheism (a belief in three gods). The words Triune or Trinity conveniently wrap up into one word all the Biblical data that point to Jesus as Yahweh incarnate and to the Holy Spirit as God himself. While the word "trinity" is not actually in the Bible, the concept certainly is!

Does it seem rational to say that Yahweh expresses Himself in three separate persons, yet exists as one single entity? No, it doesn't seem rational to us human beings . . . but then the creation of an entire universe from nothing doesn't seem rational to human beings either.

Christianity is not about rationality.

They know it and don't care. Tribal needs over pride.

Regards
DL

Nonsense! Christians pursued the scientific methodology. Christians helped to establish archaeology. Christians do not simply accept things without any investigation. This is why the book of Mormon isn't accepted in Christian circles because it's all about "feelings" and Christianity isn't simply feelings.

 

[GreatestIam]

Understanding God as triune enlists the baptismal celebration phrasing in Matthew 28:19-20 (The Great Commission, as it is sometimes called). The invocation "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" uses the singular word "name" — onoma in Greek — rather than the plural word "names." Some will argue that onoma should be translated as "by the authority of," the primary meaning which credible Greek lexicons say this word had in New Testament times is absolutely "proper name" or "the name by which a person or thing is called."

Being baptized in the "name" of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is a way of affirming the oneness that was in Peter's mind as he spoke of Jesus in Acts 4:12 and said: "There is no other name" by which we "must be saved."

True, the word "triune" or even trinity is not in the Bible. Those words are, however, useful in tying together what the First Century church understood about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit without falling into a tritheism (a belief in three gods). The words Triune or Trinity conveniently wrap up into one word all the Biblical data that point to Jesus as Yahweh incarnate and to the Holy Spirit as God himself. While the word "trinity" is not actually in the Bible, the concept certainly is!

Does it seem rational to say that Yahweh expresses Himself in three separate persons, yet exists as one single entity? No, it doesn't seem rational to us human beings . . . but then the creation of an entire universe from nothing doesn't seem rational to human beings either.

Christianity is not about rationality.

They know it and don't care. Tribal needs over pride.

Regards
DL

Nonsense! Christians pursued the scientific methodology. Christians helped to establish archaeology. Christians do not simply accept things without any investigation. This is why the book of Mormon isn't accepted in Christian circles because it's all about "feelings" and Christianity isn't simply feelings.

Before the idiocy of reading myths literally, you are correct.

The Christian apostles creed makes Christians accept things without investigation.

It is a faith based supernatural believing religion that cannot investigate the supernatural or unknowable god.

Mormon's are just as weird as all literalist believers of fantasy gods.

Regards
DL

 

[LuckyDuck]

Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus seems unaware that he was God.

What did Jesus mean by forsaken?

The usual definition means abandoned or deserted.

How can one abandon or desert themselves?

If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh?

Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him?

Further.

Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side.

If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different?

Regards
DL

I suspect that when people approached him for his autograph, he just signed....Yahweh.

 

[Newtonian]

Well, Psalms 82:6 is using a specific definition of deity; "mighty ones."

That cannot be so easily explained away per modern watchtower dogma. The "mighty ones" were the giants before the flood, perhaps they were injected with bovine growth hormone in utero and while growing up.

Genesis 6:4. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The "mighty men" before the flood were real bastards and they grew up to be registered sex offenders. They took wives of all they chose, whether the women were willing or not. And the women who got pregnant wouldn't have gotten pregnant by regular "men" — oh, no — it was the sons of God they were sleeping with.

Genesis 3:22. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: […]

This verse is too significant to be explained away as the antediluvian "mighty men."

You think Psalms 82:6 is about the mighty ones before the flood???

 

[Newtonian]

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

If Yahweh said, "Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" according to the Scripture, Psalms 82:6, then Jesus could well have asked this question of Pilate who condemned him, the disciples who fled, and the soldiers who did the deed and parted his garments. Or if the Romans themselves were gods or they worshiped other gods who were not faithful.

Well, Psalms 82:6 is using a specific definition of deity; "mighty ones." It is possible Jehovah was referring to human judges as the Targums read in Psalms 82:1 - though other manuscripts read angels. Either way - they were NOT worshiped. Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 in his defense of his deity at John 12:34-36.

And Jesus never told us to worship him. Jesus revealed to us the greatest commandment in the Bible. It was to love who? (Mark 12:28-34 quoting Deuteronomy 6:4,5). Note, however, that many Bible translations remove the Divine Name in all of its 3 occurrences in this quote of the Hebrew text of Deuteronomy 6:4,5. These translators and copyists only remove God's name in their Bible translations - all other Bible names, including the name of false gods like Dagon, are retained - now why is that?.

For the nearly 7,000 times KJV removes the name Jehovah and substitutes Lord - see Strong's Exhaustive concordance under "Lord" and note how often Lord is substituted for H3068/Yehovah/Jehovah compared with how often the Hebrew text actually reads Lord (H113/adon and H136 adonay.

But, thankfully, KJV retains the Divine Name Jehovah 4 times - here is one example:

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Psalm 83:18
King James Version
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Jesus clearly told Satan when tempted by him that ------ and I quote, "You can not tempt the LORD your GOD."
And when Thomas the Apostle fell down and said, "My LORD and my GOD," when Jesus revealed HIMSELF to Thomas, Jesus clearly didn't chastise Thomas for misplaced worship. Jesus deserved every once of it! And when Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees when HE clearly stated to the crippled man, "Your sins are forgiven!" Jesus never said, "You're right, I'm bad", when they said that only GOD can forgive sin."

Misquote. The verse should read Jehovah, not Lord.

Matthew 4:7 (NW)
Jesus said to him: “Again it is written: ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”+
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written: 'You shall not tempt THE LORD JEHOVAH your God.' “

Jesus is here quoting:

Deuteronomy 6:16
“You must not put Jehovah your God to the test+ the way you put him to the test at Masʹsah.+
Young's Literal Translation
'Ye do not try Jehovah your God as ye tried in Massah;

Many Bible translations remove God's name from this quote. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance shows the nearly 7,000 times KJV removes the Divine Name (H3068/Jehovah) and substitutes the title Lord (H113/adon; H136/adonay.

Jesus is likely quoting from the Greek Septuagint (=LXX). When was the Divine Name removed from LXX and the substitute title Lord (Gr. kyrios) inserted? Who did this and why?

 

[justinacolmena]

Jehovah and Yahweh are pronunciations of a name that God gave Himself when Moses was slow of speech and asked God, God responded,

"I AM THAT I AM" =

יהוה​

The short form Yah (in Hebrew) rhymes with Egyptian Rah, the Sun God, and if Moses had a legitimate speech impediment, then he could not be convicted in court of mispronouncing the name of Rah, when he said that Yah had sent him to plead for his people before Pharaoh.

 

[Newtonian]

Jehovah and Yahweh are pronunciations of a name that God gave Himself when Moses was slow of speech and asked God, God responded,

"I AM THAT I AM" =

יהוה​

The short form Yah (in Hebrew) rhymes with Egyptian Rah, the Sun God, and if Moses had a legitimate speech impediment, then he could not be convicted in court of mispronouncing the name of Rah, when he said that Yah had sent him to plead for his people before Pharaoh.

The Divine Name was known long before Moses's time. For example, Rachel named her son Judah to praise Jehovah (Jehovah = YHWH in Hebrew; Judah = YHDH in Hebrew)

Genesis 29:35
And she became pregnant once more and gave birth to a son and then said: “This time I will praise Jehovah.” She therefore named him Judah.*+ After that she stopped giving birth.
American Standard Version
And she conceived again, and bare a son. And she said, This time will I praise Jehovah. Therefore she called his name Judah. And she left off bearing.

Note that most Bible translations remove the Divine Name (H3068/YHWH=Jehovah) from Genesis 29:35 and substitute the title Lord (Hebrew H113/adon; H136/adonay).

Btw - Rachel lived long before Moses - her husband's name was changed from Jacob to Israel.

 

[GreatestIam]

Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus seems unaware that he was God.

What did Jesus mean by forsaken?

The usual definition means abandoned or deserted.

How can one abandon or desert themselves?

If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh?

Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him?

Further.

Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side.

If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different?

Regards
DL

I suspect that when people approached him for his autograph, he just signed....Yahweh.

Yahweh the prick, would be closer to the truth.

Actually, Jesus is not nearly the prick his father is.

Jesus is not the most moral man around though and we can do better than Jesus did.

Many of his moral tenets are not moral at all.

Christians never want to talk of that deficiency though.

Regards
DL

 

[tyroneweaver]

Before Abraham was I Am

 

[ESay]

The question in the OP doesn't make sense as long as the gospel of John exists. Christians will always find a passage from there to support their trinitarian views. No matter how synoptic gospels contradict them.

 

[GreatestIam]

Before Abraham was I Am

Me too., Big deal.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The question in the OP doesn't make sense as long as the gospel of John exists. Christians will always find a passage from there to support their trinitarian views. No matter how synoptic gospels contradict them.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the bible can be made to say almost anything. That was it's worth before the stupid started to read their myths literally.

Regards
DL

 

[DOTR]

I like the latter, and you would likely as well, if you were inclined to freedom of though, and shun the former.

Regards
DL

If you had a religion, outside of a chat room religion I mean, then you wouldn't spend all your time on Christianity.

 

[DOTR]

The question in the OP doesn't make sense as long as the gospel of John exists. Christians will always find a passage from there to support their trinitarian views. No matter how synoptic gospels contradict them.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the bible can be made to say almost anything. That was it's worth before the stupid started to read their myths literally.

Regards
DL

Yet you quote is as authoritative. As a puritan...or Satan... would.

 

[GreatestIam]

I like the latter, and you would likely as well, if you were inclined to freedom of though, and shun the former.

Regards
DL

If you had a religion, outside of a chat room religion I mean, then you wouldn't spend all your time on Christianity.

I don't.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

The Theft of Our Values

Is religion an ideal barometer of Western values or merely an oppressor of them? The conclusions set forth in the documentary The Theft of Our Values...

topdocumentaryfilms.com

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL