Was slavery condemned in the Bible?

[Porter Rockwell]

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

He did?
Can you show me where the Sanhedrin sentenced him?
I’d be curious to read the testimony and how the judges determined the punishment.
Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, which, by the way, did not exist at the time, the Sanhedrin cannot meet out punishment because someone pissed them off.

Sheldon Emry was an attorney turned minister. I yield to his explanation:

https://israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Who Killed Christ.pdf

Bro, we are way off topic. This thread is about slavery, so don't get lost. If we don't get back on point, I may have to start ignoring you.

You brought up crime and punishment.
You are very good at telling others that you know details of law that they don’t, but you can’t handle someone responding to you in a like manner.

You are left wanting on the subject of Jewish Jurisprudence because you haven’t studied the subject.

I have law professors that would dispute it. You're so damn full of yourself, you can't even understand what this thread is about.

 

[Indeependent]

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Where were they engaging in relations?
Who saw them?
What did the judges to to ensure the testimony wasn’t false?

We are discussing slavery. Hopefully you can get your head out of your ass and back on point. I don't much care about who is sucking whos dick. Someone asked; I responded, expecting some leap from homosexuality to slavery. It was used to hijack the thread. I choose to return to the topic.

Once again, the Torah discusses servitude, not slavery.
The fact that you can’t read the language it’s written in is your problem.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can now presume you reject Case Law.
Is this correct?

I don't give a fuck what you presume. You're being an asshole and you are NOT going to change this thread.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can only represent God’s Paragon of justice.

You represent only your narcissistic stupidity.

 

[Indeependent]

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can now presume you reject Case Law.
Is this correct?

I don't give a fuck what you presume. You're being an asshole and you are NOT going to change this thread.

You won’t read a legal document in it’s original language and you reject case law.
You are also very emotional when your lack of legal knowledge is presented to you.
You suck as a lawyer.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Where were they engaging in relations?
Who saw them?
What did the judges to to ensure the testimony wasn’t false?

We are discussing slavery. Hopefully you can get your head out of your ass and back on point. I don't much care about who is sucking whos dick. Someone asked; I responded, expecting some leap from homosexuality to slavery. It was used to hijack the thread. I choose to return to the topic.

Once again, the Torah discusses servitude, not slavery.
The fact that you can’t read the language it’s written in is your problem.

It's YOUR problem because you are discussing semantics and it don't have squat to do with topic. Good Bye.

 

[Indeependent]

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can only represent God’s Paragon of justice.

You represent only your narcissistic stupidity.

Did you notice 100% of your threads always result in ad hominems?
No wonder no one here likes you.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can now presume you reject Case Law.
Is this correct?

I don't give a fuck what you presume. You're being an asshole and you are NOT going to change this thread.

You won’t read a legal document in it’s original language and you reject case law.
You are also very emotional when your lack of legal knowledge is presented to you.
You suck as a lawyer.

How would you know? You don't even make a good legal secretary. Now, I gave you a link... one the time stamps on your posts will readily show you did not have time to read.

Sir, I am not going to argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. If anyone wants the answer they only need go back a few posts and see the links I posted. You and I are done here.

 

[Indeependent]

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can now presume you reject Case Law.
Is this correct?

I don't give a fuck what you presume. You're being an asshole and you are NOT going to change this thread.

You won’t read a legal document in it’s original language and you reject case law.
You are also very emotional when your lack of legal knowledge is presented to you.
You suck as a lawyer.

How would you know? You don't even make a good legal secretary. Now, I gave you a link... one the time stamps on your posts will readily show you did not have time to read.

Sir, I am not going to argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. If anyone wants the answer they only need go back a few posts and see the links I posted. You and I are done here.

You are posting on Biblical passages about which you know nothing.
Aren’t you a tad embarrassed?

I would never discuss Vatican II Law.

 

[ding]

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Let’s focus on the first one.

Do you believe that the words they will surely be put to death means to kill them?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

At the end of the day, there is nothing inherently evil about slavery. That is my takeaway.

Since there was nothing inherently evil about it, provided we did so with respect and dignity for the lives of others, then it is acceptable. That answers my question and now I can leave the thread to the troll that wants a pissing match that he is mentally unqualified to handle.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Let’s focus on the first one.

Do you believe that the words they will surely be put to death means to kill them?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Due to being trolled by that chickensh!+ that posts a hundred posts back to back, I will not answer that. NOBODY except for maybe 6 pro-gay people are going to read these posts and quite frankly I don't care. I'm asking about slavery, not death for gays.

What I think on that subject is mostly private since I cannot judge the gay no more than any other sinner.

At the moment, I'm getting a lot of blame for a fight I didn't start. A guy half my age and about 30 percent bigger than me went off on a tangent, threw a belt across my neck without warning and was choking me. I instinctively went for my gun, but it wasn't there. So, I had to fight. This guy's mother got in the fray trying to make sure I couldn't fight back and now says I bit her. I may have since I acted instinctively. I could not get loose from the belt and this guy is screaming about me being a mother fucker and a son of a bitch. Well, I did get a hold of a short paring knife. It wouldn't cut, but I could stab. Now, this guy has to use one hand to try and control my hands.

Anyway, the melee ends with him with his wrist broken in two places and a fractured arm. I figure I could have been a son of a bitch about it and called the cops. He spent a week in the hospital. Now, the mother is saying the fight was all my fault. A guy throws a belt around my neck and begins assaulting me without warning and when it's over, he's on the floor asking me to forgive him and that he goes off without knowing why. Today, his misfortune is my fault.

You ask me about what the Bible means. Right now, I can't be objective. I could have shot that guy and it would have been legal. Would it have been moral? The only thing I know for sure, those people did not appreciate my not calling the cops. Him being a felon, he would be in jail awaiting trial. In this frame of mind, I can't be objective about killing. Hell, I'm thinking I'd be better off if I had shot this guy. Now, he'll probably go out and assault someone else... it's what landed him in jail that got a felony on his record in the first place.

I will address it later when I'm in the right frame of mind and don't have a smart ass trolling me. Right now, if you have something on slavery, I am willing to consider it.

 

[irosie91]

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

Jesus was tried----ostensibly by bibilical law via the Sanhedrin and
ACQUITTED-----his death sentence came from ROME for a violation of
roman law----to wit ---SEDITION AGAINST ROME-----try reading the book

 

[presonorek]

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

The only position I am arguing is against your interpretation that God commanded to kill gay people.

Argue all you want. I only quoted Lev. 20 : 13. You are not arguing against me.

Use 12 different translations.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

Jesus was tried----ostensibly by bibilical law via the Sanhedrin and
ACQUITTED-----his death sentence came from ROME for a violation of
roman law----to wit ---SEDITION AGAINST ROME-----try reading the book

Did you try reading my link? It was written by an attorney who was also a theologian. You keep challenging my IQ and you aren't smart enough to understand this is not a gay thread. This thread is about slavery.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

The only position I am arguing is against your interpretation that God commanded to kill gay people.

Argue all you want. I only quoted Lev. 20 : 13. You are not arguing against me.

Use 12 different translations.

Or use one. Seems people can make the Bible say anything they want and then you get into pissing matches with amateurs that think their version is the ONLY one.

 

[presonorek]

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

 

[anynameyouwish]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

Do you approve of killing gays?

 

[anynameyouwish]

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

anyone who agrees with god that gays should be killed isn't worth talking to.

anyone who believes gays should be executed because their POS god told them to is a POS.