Was slavery condemned in the Bible?

[Porter Rockwell]

You just admitted that it was a legal practice. Why are you getting your boxers in a bunch?

Do you even logic?

Do you? If so, I have yet to see it.

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

 

[Indeependent]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

You are discussing servitude vs slavery.

That is pure semantics Professor Marx with no citations to back your claim.

Incorrect.
Slavery is alive and well in the Hood, South of the Border and in many Muslim nations.
There are many in servitude earning a good living, receiving excellent benefits and able to leave at their leisure.

Split hairs all you want dude. You're either free or you are a slave. My opinion is just as valid as yours, but you if think that people forced into servitude are any happier about their situation, you are dead wrong.

Who is free other than those who were born to extreme wealth such as yourself?
You are simply a self-pitying, guilt ridden rich guy.
I serve the person who provides me with a paycheck and benefits.
A slave has no freedom, such as those escaping their slavery from South of the Border.
I am fully acquainted with those who escape because they don’t want to be slaves to a local Drug Lord.

 

[Indeependent]

That's semantics. The point is that - whatever name you want to call them - their book Leviticus emphasized their ritual, legal and moral practices. And their practices indicated that they did not fucking kill gay people.

So why is it that you think they were commanded to kill gay people?

The obvious answer is that they weren't because they didn't fucking kill gay people in reality.

You just admitted that it was a legal practice. Why are you getting your boxers in a bunch?

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

 

[Andylusion]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

You are discussing servitude vs slavery.

That is pure semantics Professor Marx with no citations to back your claim.

Incorrect.
Slavery is alive and well in the Hood, South of the Border and in many Muslim nations.
There are many in servitude earning a good living, receiving excellent benefits and able to leave at their leisure.

Split hairs all you want dude. You're either free or you are a slave. My opinion is just as valid as yours, but you if think that people forced into servitude are any happier about their situation, you are dead wrong.

Who is free other than those who were born to extreme wealth such as yourself?
You are simply a self-pitying, guilt ridden rich guy.
I serve the person who provides me with a paycheck and benefits.
A slave has no freedom, such as those escaping their slavery from South of the Border.
I am fully acquainted with those who escape because they don’t want to be slaves to a local Drug Lord.

You are indeed a funny man. I am a slave. I don't even have control over my own home. Guilt ridden? About what? Did you know that many of my working years were spent helping those from south of the border negotiate the legal system and get their citizenship?

I get no paycheck other than which I can earn on my own. And currently I am being blackmailed, so I do nothing to earn any more than can be taken. You have benefits? I don't. Here it is pay as you go. BTW, one night I went to the home of some Hispanics who invited friends.

All were the from the same village (town) barrio - whatever. About twenty guys show up, none older than late 20s. Where they lived, they had dirt floors, outhouses, no indoor plumbing, and most had no electricity. One person there had a phone. All the males there said their choices were to be forced into working in the drug trade or have their family members hurt or killed.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You just admitted that it was a legal practice. Why are you getting your boxers in a bunch?

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

 

[ding]

Do you even logic?

Do you? If so, I have yet to see it.

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

 

[ding]

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

The only position I am arguing is against your interpretation that God commanded to kill gay people.

Argue all you want. I only quoted Lev. 20 : 13. You are not arguing against me.

Actually I am.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

 

[Indeependent]

uhm ---not exactly-----in practice BEING GAY was not a crime-----developing a
cult or a temple to GAYNESS like a GAY NITECLUB would have been a crime.

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

He did?
Can you show me where the Sanhedrin sentenced him?
I’d be curious to read the testimony and how the judges determined the punishment.
Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, which, by the way, did not exist at the time, the Sanhedrin cannot meet out punishment because someone pissed them off.

 

[Indeependent]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Do you? If so, I have yet to see it.

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Do you? If so, I have yet to see it.

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

More semantics. Many years ago, a wrestler by the name of Jimmy Garvin wanted to call another wrestler a son of a bitch on tv wrestling. Back then you couldn't do that and Les Thatcher (the promoter) warned Garvin that if he uttered that phrase, he would be suspended from the roster for the next three months.

When Garvin had his interview, he addressed the other wrestler like this: "Your momma was a dog and your daddy was a dog, so son, I don't have to tell you what that just made you."

A rose by any other name...

 

[Indeependent]

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Where were they engaging in relations?
Who saw them?
What did the judges to to ensure the testimony wasn’t false?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Got any citations for that or are you talking out your ass?

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

He did?
Can you show me where the Sanhedrin sentenced him?
I’d be curious to read the testimony and how the judges determined the punishment.
Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, which, by the way, did not exist at the time, the Sanhedrin cannot meet out punishment because someone pissed them off.

Sheldon Emry was an attorney turned minister. I yield to his explanation:

https://israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Who Killed Christ.pdf

Bro, we are way off topic. This thread is about slavery, so don't get lost. If we don't get back on point, I may have to start ignoring you.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

 

[Indeependent]

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

He did?
Can you show me where the Sanhedrin sentenced him?
I’d be curious to read the testimony and how the judges determined the punishment.
Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, which, by the way, did not exist at the time, the Sanhedrin cannot meet out punishment because someone pissed them off.

Sheldon Emry was an attorney turned minister. I yield to his explanation:

https://israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Who Killed Christ.pdf

Bro, we are way off topic. This thread is about slavery, so don't get lost. If we don't get back on point, I may have to start ignoring you.

You brought up crime and punishment.
You are very good at telling others that you know details of law that they don’t, but you can’t handle someone responding to you in a like manner.

You are left wanting on the subject of Jewish Jurisprudence because you haven’t studied the subject.

 

[Indeependent]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can now presume you reject Case Law.
Is this correct?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Where were they engaging in relations?
Who saw them?
What did the judges to to ensure the testimony wasn’t false?

We are discussing slavery. Hopefully you can get your head out of your ass and back on point. I don't much care about who is sucking whos dick. Someone asked; I responded, expecting some leap from homosexuality to slavery. It was used to hijack the thread. I choose to return to the topic.

 

[Indeependent]

IIRC, the first slaveholder in the Bible was Abraham. If I'm not right, someone will correct me.

God put his own people into slavery for disobedience and he allowed his people to subdue other nations and take slaves. So, when, if ever, did it become a sin?

A good question, and a difficult one to answer.

I'm going to try and explain this, but am not suggesting you simply accept it. I do not know if you are a Christian, and I don't expect you to believe in Christian concepts, if you are not a Christian.

This is just an explanation.

SO....... In Christian terms, slavery is never considered a sin. It is regulated, and controls, and limited.

In fact, the way the way the Bible refers to Christianity itself, is that we are "slaves to Christ". We are slaves to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ the Messiah.

A proper Christian that truly follows Biblical teaching, understands that he life was bought and paid for, by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. So we are slaves to the Lord.

Now as for how the Bible regulated slavery between men.... Some slaves were due to debts. Others to pay for crimes. Some were captured in war.

However, slavery was not permanent status, or even a negative many times. You didn't lose your humanity being a slave.

For example, once you worked off your debt, and the debt was paid, you were no longer a slave. If you were a slave for doing a crime, it was usually over whenever you finished your time. If you were a captured slave, you were released on the year of jubilee.

In all cases, slavery was never a fundamental aspect of your life.

Now compare that to what we saw elsewhere in history. Black people for example, were simply thought to be less than human. They slaves because they were black. They were considered lower-beings. Similarly, in India if you were born lower-caste... you were made to do the worst possible jobs, simply because you were a lesser-human in their view.

Nothing of that sort, existed in Biblical term. In fact, many slaves were treated with great respect and honor depending on who they worked for, or what they did. This is so true, that many slaves would voluntarily give up their freedom for life. Deuteronomy chapter 15 talks about this.

So my suggestion to you is that was the great evil, the slavery of Darwinism, where we are superior more evolved people, and those lesser beings are slaves.

The bible goes to great lengths to clearly say that we are all equal under G-d.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
​

The problem with modern slavery, is that it made one person lesser, than another. That is evil.

Here is what I would say:

If anything I am a servant of Christ. Secondly, I have read over 200 sermons that were delivered between 1620 and the mid 1800s regarding who we are as a nation and a people. In John Winthrop's 1630 sermon, which has been quoted by leaders like JFK and Ronald Reagan, our forefathers envisioned a "shiny city on a hill."

We had slavery in the United States, but it was the most humane ever recorded in history. Slaves of that era ate better, dressed better, and had better clothes than their contemporary blue collar white freemen.

Insofar as your quoted verse, you have taken it out of context. There are several interpretations of the word "Jew." There are Jews by birth, "Jews" (more accurately Judeans) by geography also called Jews and Jews by religion. If you look at it closely, that verse refers to geography and in no way supports a universalist theory.

The entire Bible is written to, for and about a people called Israel. They are a special people and through them the world would be blessed... of course that too was dependent upon Israel keeping the laws of God. I found such a list and # 35 stood out on the list. ONE people took the initiative to end the institution of slavery as we know it. Those same people fit all those marks to which the author cited out of the Bible:

The Marks of Israel

It’s obvious you’ve never read Deuteronomy.
Moshe says what’s going to happen to the Jews throughout history and them bring them back.
Why?
Because God wants the world to know what violent scum they are when they try to tell God how kind they were to the Jews.

Obviously nothing is what it seems, but your reliance on sources other than biblical references and people discussing that shows you aren't beaming paragon of human virtue you pretend to be ... Professor.

I can only represent God’s Paragon of justice.