WATCH: Ferguson Protesters Chant ‘We’re Ready for War’

[rcfieldz]

Will someone let us know which night "the war" starts so I can sit in front of my tv?

 

[sealybobo]

What sounded "fishy"?

Neighbor hood watch follows unknown black teenager in a gated community that had been plagued by breakins by black youths.

Black youth gets pissed off he is followed and precedes to kick neighborhood watch guys ass.

Neighborhood watch guy shots angry black youth in self defense.

If that sounds fishy to you, you might be new to this planet.

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Before I continue, are you saying that fat phuck caught trevon in a foot race?

Why was he running?

What happened when Zimmerman met up with trevon?

 

[sealybobo]

What sounded "fishy"?

Neighbor hood watch follows unknown black teenager in a gated community that had been plagued by breakins by black youths.

Black youth gets pissed off he is followed and precedes to kick neighborhood watch guys ass.

Neighborhood watch guy shots angry black youth in self defense.

If that sounds fishy to you, you might be new to this planet.

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Tell me what you think happened once Zimmerman caught trevon. If trevon was hiding in a tree and pounced on his staulker I'm sorry but he over reacted.

But I guess if some black dude was chasing me I would ultimately have to either keep running or confront the person. But how will I confront him? If he's got the balls to follow me I'd probably ask him why he's following me. Could be a mistake. In fact I know it is. So if I'm scared why am I no longer afraid once he catches up to me? Maybe now I'm mad but the question is, "do you have the right to beat up someone you think is stalking you?" Is there no conversation before the fight? That's important.

Are you suggesting Zimmerman ran up and just started fighting with trevon? I'm trying to wrap my brain around how this went down.

Why didn't Zimmerman already have his gun drawn? And how did the fight start?

 

[Correll]

What sounded "fishy"?

Neighbor hood watch follows unknown black teenager in a gated community that had been plagued by breakins by black youths.

Black youth gets pissed off he is followed and precedes to kick neighborhood watch guys ass.

Neighborhood watch guy shots angry black youth in self defense.

If that sounds fishy to you, you might be new to this planet.

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

 

[dannyboys]

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Tell me what you think happened once Zimmerman caught trevon. If trevon was hiding in a tree and pounced on his staulker I'm sorry but he over reacted.

But I guess if some black dude was chasing me I would ultimately have to either keep running or confront the person. But how will I confront him? If he's got the balls to follow me I'd probably ask him why he's following me. Could be a mistake. In fact I know it is. So if I'm scared why am I no longer afraid once he catches up to me? Maybe now I'm mad but the question is, "do you have the right to beat up someone you think is stalking you?" Is there no conversation before the fight? That's important.

Are you suggesting Zimmerman ran up and just started fighting with trevon? I'm trying to wrap my brain around how this went down.

Why didn't Zimmerman already have his gun drawn? And how did the fight start?

And now once again time for a few facts.
'DD' Martin's girlfriend testified under oath the Martin told her he was basically safe in front of his door but that he was going to go back and [beat the shit] out of Zimmerman.
The location where the fight and fatal shot was fired was no where near where Martin was staying.
The woman who insisted she saw Zimmerman "on top of Martin beating up Martin" turned out to be certifiably fucking crazy and her testimony was thrown out.
Zimmerman walked b/c a jury, mostly black, found there to be no evidence he committed any crime against Martin. Nada. Zilch.
Fucking get over it!
The simple fact is young negro men are genetically wired to be violent and aggressive. They have about 15-20% more testosterone in their systems as Whites.
Again scientific fact.
You get these men hopped up on testosterone with low IQs, zero education, not sentient enough to keep their pants pulled up, with nothing to look forward to when they wake up accept fucking and fighting and stealing to get what they aren't able to legally and you get Trayvon Martins and 'Big Mikes'.

 

[JQPublic1]

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Tell me what you think happened once Zimmerman caught trevon. If trevon was hiding in a tree and pounced on his staulker I'm sorry but he over reacted.

But I guess if some black dude was chasing me I would ultimately have to either keep running or confront the person. But how will I confront him? If he's got the balls to follow me I'd probably ask him why he's following me. Could be a mistake. In fact I know it is. So if I'm scared why am I no longer afraid once he catches up to me? Maybe now I'm mad but the question is, "do you have the right to beat up someone you think is stalking you?" Is there no conversation before the fight? That's important.

Are you suggesting Zimmerman ran up and just started fighting with trevon? I'm trying to wrap my brain around how this went down.

Why didn't Zimmerman already have his gun drawn? And how did the fight start?

And now once again time for a few facts.
'DD' Martin's girlfriend testified under oath the Martin told her he was basically safe in front of his door but that he was going to go back and [beat the shit] out of Zimmerman.
The location where the fight and fatal shot was fired was no where near where Martin was staying.
The woman who insisted she saw Zimmerman "on top of Martin beating up Martin" turned out to be certifiably fucking crazy and her testimony was thrown out.
Zimmerman walked b/c a jury, mostly black, found there to be no evidence he committed any crime against Martin. Nada. Zilch.
Fucking get over it!
The simple fact is young negro men are genetically wired to be violent and aggressive. They have about 15-20% more testosterone in their systems as Whites.
Again scientific fact.
You get these men hopped up on testosterone with low IQs, zero education, not sentient enough to keep their pants pulled up, with nothing to look forward to when they wake up accept fucking and fighting and stealing to get what they aren't able to legally and you get Trayvon Martins and 'Big Mikes'.

Where are your links , Irish asshole? The credibility of a racist like you is so low that even a microbe stands taller. And your pseudo-scientific bull shit fails when we put racial violence in a historical perspective. You do remember Stalin, Hitler and Nathan B Forrest...Don't you? And don't forget the Kool Kolored Kats (KKK). It will take another millenium before blacks have killed a fraction of people that Pink people have killed.

 

[JQPublic1]

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

 

[JQPublic1]

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Before I continue, are you saying that fat phuck caught trevon in a foot race?

Why was he running?

What happened when Zimmerman met up with trevon?

I didn't say that GZ caught TM, I am saying he chased him and ran past TM's subsequent hiding place..see post 567 for more details!

 

[JQPublic1]

Well, I don't see anything funny about this and your "white bigoted logic" allows you to incorrectly use non aggressive terms like " follow"
rather than more aggressive terms like "chase" or "pursue" when describing GZ's actions shortly before his confrontation with TM.
You've bonded with GZ against TM just as naturally as you bonded with Epps against the Black man who shot him.

You won't admit that TM was standing his ground against a stranger who had chased him on a rainly dark night when the confrontation took place.

You won't admit that TM had every right to use deadly force against GZ because he felt threatened. Somehow TM's feelings and fears are diminished in your eyes because, in your twisted logic, it was TM's fault for daring to ambush the idiot chasing him and striking him before he could harm HIM!

Martin didn't know GZ's history and he didn't know he was a night watchman but that doesn't matter to you, does it? Martin , in your mind, is one of "them" and he just out of the blue ambushed and attacked a law abiding GZ who was only "following" him. Er...lets gloss over the fact that GZ chased after Martin... that is too aggressive....

GZ ran past Martin who had hidden himself somehow. ( there were no bushes at the place GZ said they were.) And when he turned to go back to his vehicle, Martin emerged from hiding apparently in front of him and struck first instead of waiting for the man chasing him to strike HIM first. Who among you would have waited to see what GZ was going to do next? I certainly would not.

During the ensuing struggle the Stand Your Ground law hovered metaphorically above TM's head but shifted to GZ when TM failed to kill or incapacitate the son of a bitch! GZ, ostensibly fearing for HIS life now grabbed his gun and shot Martin. Now dead, Martin was immediately transferred into the villain and GZ the hero

TM's case exposes a side to white people that I knew was there but didn't want to acknowledge. Most of you hate black people of ANY class and you all stick together to ostracize or demonize those who stand with the good ones and try to fight your hatred. You not only make America less safe for good decent blacks, you make the entire world unsafe for them with your international bigotry.
There are some rare exceptions but just reading a page or two of any dialogue concerning backs verifies by claim right here on USMB.

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Tell me what you think happened once Zimmerman caught trevon. If trevon was hiding in a tree and pounced on his staulker I'm sorry but he over reacted.

But I guess if some black dude was chasing me I would ultimately have to either keep running or confront the person. But how will I confront him? If he's got the balls to follow me I'd probably ask him why he's following me. Could be a mistake. In fact I know it is. So if I'm scared why am I no longer afraid once he catches up to me? Maybe now I'm mad but the question is, "do you have the right to beat up someone you think is stalking you?" Is there no conversation before the fight? That's important.

Are you suggesting Zimmerman ran up and just started fighting with trevon? I'm trying to wrap my brain around how this went down.

Why didn't Zimmerman already have his gun drawn? And how did the fight start?

See post 567

 

[JQPublic1]

In all fairness, I must acknowledge the objectivity of those white people who, like me, were NOT satisfied with the GZ verdict and outcome of his trial. If the result of a Pew Poll study is any indication, quite a few White people supported TM. My apologies to those objective souls:

 

[sealybobo]

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Before I continue, are you saying that fat phuck caught trevon in a foot race?

Why was he running?

What happened when Zimmerman met up with trevon?

I didn't say that GZ caught TM, I am saying he chased him and ran past TM's subsequent hiding place..see post 567 for more details!

Hiding place? Your story is sounding weaker and weaker as time goes on. Sorry, just being honest. I don't think the kid should have lost his life but I hope you are understanding where I'm coming from. Just doesn't add up. If the kid was in a gated community and a neighborhood watch guy is approaching him, no he doesn't get to beat the guy up because he's offended. What is he doing there? Maybe it was mistaken identity? Maybe Zimmerman was chasing after his tall black male lover. I would stop and ask why he's following me. Can I help you? And if he said I was trespassing I'd leave. Maybe I'd talk a little smack but when he pulled out a gun I'd change my tune.

Seems blacks aren't afraid when a gun is pulled on them.

 

[sealybobo]

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

So you get to shoot someone if you perceive they are chasing you? Wow. Didn't know that.

 

[sealybobo]

In all fairness, I must acknowledge the objectivity of those white people who, like me, were NOT satisfied with the GZ verdict and outcome of his trial. If the result of a Pew Poll study is any indication, quite a few White people supported TM. My apologies to those objective souls:

I'm one of them who wasn't comfortable with the verdict but now after hearing more information from you I'm not buying Trevon's story anymore.

If I perceive a black person is chasing me I'm just going to shoot them and claim stand my ground.

 

[sealybobo]

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

Next time a black guy approaches me I'm going to perceive him as a threat and I'm going to kick the living shit out of him.

This guy asked the guy for a cigarette then after he gave him a cigarette the guy pulled a gun and robbed him. THEN he shot him. Why did he shoot him? He already had the phone and wallet.

Armed Robber Opens Fire After Victim Hands Over Wallet Cell Phone CBS Detroit

What is great about this is that the stupid robber didn't know the guy had a robber phone on his app. If the phone is stolen it takes a pic of the person trying to use it and it emails the pic to the victim. LOL. LOVE IT! Busted!!!

 

[Unkotare]

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

Next time a black guy approaches me I'm going to perceive him as a threat and I'm going to kick the living shit out of him.

Yeah, sure you will, etough guy. Eeeeeveryone believes you

 

[sealybobo]

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

Next time a black guy approaches me I'm going to perceive him as a threat and I'm going to kick the living shit out of him.

Yeah, sure you will, etough guy. Eeeeeveryone believes you

If you don't know karate asia man I'd kick your ass.

 

[Unkotare]

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

Next time a black guy approaches me I'm going to perceive him as a threat and I'm going to kick the living shit out of him.

Yeah, sure you will, etough guy. Eeeeeveryone believes you

If you don't know karate asia man I'd kick your ass.

Keep telling yourself that, precious.

 

[Unkotare]

Many posts here demonstrate how easily simpletons can be manipulated into violence. People of ill-intent can use race as the excuse as easily as any other.

 

[Correll]

Crazy talk.

When I first heard of the shooting thought the lib media it was presented as some "white" guy shooting a black teenager for no reason.

My first reaction was, "Oh, man, these libs are never going to let us forget this".

I believed it. And why not? THere are crazy and murderous white people in the nation, not many, but some.

Then we started getting the real story, how Zimmerman did not just walk up and shoot Martin for walking while black, but shoot him while Martin was sitting on his chest and beating him.


The beating, which was not in the initial reports, was witnessed by a credible witness.



If you see my siding with the victim as proof of racism, then there is ZERO chance of White America EVER doing well in your eyes.

Indeed, if you are representative of the black community, then all such effort has been, is and will be a complete waste of time, energy and money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Response to red: You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that GZ chased Martin and put him in fear of bodily harm. Whether GZ intended to harm Martin initially is immaterial. He made TM feel threatened and that is enough to evoke the SYG law on TM's behalf.
Are we clear on that? Please do not go any further if you don't agree...we need to get past this point if any meaningful dialogue and mutual agreement is desirable.

If we agree on that point let's proceed to point 2.

2. Tm hid behind either a bush or a building vestibule and saw GZ run past him. GZ stopped and reported that he lost the "suspect." He then turned around to retun to his truck and saw Martin cowering behind the bush/vestible he passed moments ago. Still with me? If not lets clear it up before moving to item 3.

3. Martin had no choice now. He wasn't going to wait for GZ to say Boo, hello, or anything else. He took his chances and knocked GZ to the ground. Good job. Would YOU wait for a strange man who had just chased you to make the first move? Are we clear here? Is there anything you would have done differently if you were a black 17 year old in this situation? Before we proceed lets clear this one up and reach some kind of accord.

4. Arguably, Martin could have fled after knocking GZ down so why didn't he? I think we know why. Because GZ had drawn his gun during the chase. When he turned around and saw Martin, GZ had the gun in his hand. That spurred Martin to fight for his life. He couldn't run for fear of getting shot in the back. Martin cried for help as a struggle for the weapon ensued. Martin lost the battle. The "credible" witness saw just enough to see Martin on top of GZ, he didn't know the circumstances of how that came to be!

**note: Credible witness in your mind= a White witness!

1. He was followed not chased. There is a difference. There is no indication that Martin was afraid of bodily harm. It is more likely that he was provoked and angry.

2. "Cowering"? NOthing but spin on your part. And speculation. MOre likely Martin confronted Zimmerman and demanded to know what he was doing, and then attacked. And attacked because he sensed weakness not out of fear.

3. It is telling that even you cannot claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

4. Martin rushed a drawn gun? That's pretty brave. Why when the witness looked out his window was Martin beating Zimmerman then instead of grabbing the gun? Oh, because that didn't happen. Martin, pissed off that he was followed, attacked and started beating Zimmerman. The gun was discovered while he was sitting on top of Zimmerman's torso, beating him. Anyone who has ever carried understands how likely that is.


You want blacks to have the right to beat whites who piss them off. And whites who resist to be arrested.

Your rationalizations on this do not change your goal.

THis is a gap that will never be bridged.

Enjoy the racial harmony of today. This is the good old days.

SPEAKING FOR TRAYVON:




Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


733 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

759 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 – 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[14]

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.[14]

7:16:00 – 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[14][15] [the precise time surfaced during the trial, the call ends at 7:15:43, 1 minute and 12 seconds before the shot.]

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]






The key to my premise is whether GZ chased Martin or not. I submit to you that there is plenty of evidence to indicate he did.



The Prosecution's affidavit refers to the PURSUIT and elaborates that Martin tried to "run home but Zimmerman followed him, disregarding the police dispatcher's instructions not to PURSUE Martin. How do you follow a person who is running unless you run after them? Further, wind interference can be heard over GZ’s phone as he CHASES after Martin.




TIME MAGAZINE:


• Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who.


A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.


Of course GZ has denied he chased Martin. Being the son of a retired judge, he probably knew the consequences of saying he pursued Martin so he denied it. GZ is a liar and his dishonesty was blatantly revealed for all to see when he lied about his finances and had his bail revoked as a result. In light of this, we can assume this lying killer was/is capable of anything at this point. And considering his other subsequent scrapes with the law... oh well...


Who Was Yelling for Help?


An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."


Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:


"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.


The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."


The bias was already starting. In effect the officer was saying: No objectivity here! It could not have been Martin calling for help! No ma’m you are mistaken. It was poor GZ for sure... HE SAID SO...listen to me, I know what’s right and you are mistaken.


More from eyewitnesses:


Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager.

That statement prompted this from one of the Martin family’s lawyers:


“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.


That lawyer’s words were corroborated by the story of another witness who saw both combatants on the ground separated before the fatal shot was fired.

Really? The actually words the dispatcher used was "following", to which Zimmerman replied "Yes".


Running does not equal chasing.


The dispatcher did not tell him not do that, but that that was not "needed".

John, the witness from the window heard it as Zimmerman screaming.

The Martin Family lawyer's words are spin from a professional liar.

The dispatcher wasn't at the scene but GZ did answer correctly...he was no longer following, he was now chasing. Not in his mind, but in Martin's mind he was; and that is enough to evoke SYG on TM's behalf!

Running does equal chasing in this case. GZ was not just jogging for exercise. Perception is important here. TM's perception of GZ and his actions at this crucial time are key to defining the meaning of the SYG law. GZ and his cock lickers, like you, cannot comprehend that TM, the black kid, is reacting to a perceived threat . TM even told his girlfriend over the phone that he was scared.

John the witness was one of several witnesses. Some heard TM screaming. The screams were recorded but the expert voice analyzers
for the prosecution and defense contradicted each other.... (two white guys.)

The Martin family lawyer had reason to believe what she said was true.
GZ is the liar..the true professional liar because he reaped the biggest benefits of all from lying: his life and his freedom. I am not saying GZ set out to kill Martin, but he did put the lad in fear of his life by his actions. You OTOH see Martin as a calculating thug who wasn't afraid at all and who concocted a strategy to hide and waylay the guy who was chasing him. It seems unlikely that Martin would risk a confrontation in the dark with a man who could possibly be armed.

As I said earlier I think GZ ran past Martin's hiding place, stopped just beyond it and turned around to find Martin hiding behind some obstacle GZ had just passed. Martin had no where to go except upside of GZ's head as he should have... You don't wait for the other guy to make the first move in a situation like that where he has already made you feel threatened! His race doesn't matter either if you don't know him!


I have already explained how I believe the confrontation occurred and it makes sense.

You think that Martin really though some random white adult was looking to attack him for no reason, or is it more likely that he was thinking that some "cracker" was following him because he was a black teen in a gated community where he did not live?

("Walking while black" don't you know, and thus provoked, not afraid)

I find your assumption unlikely.

John was the best and most credible witness.

It is telling that you have to note that both the experts were white.

It is telling that you cannot even tell yourself that Zimmerman started the physical fight.

You are siding with the black guy because he is black.

 

[Correll]

In all fairness, I must acknowledge the objectivity of those white people who, like me, were NOT satisfied with the GZ verdict and outcome of his trial. If the result of a Pew Poll study is any indication, quite a few White people supported TM. My apologies to those objective souls:

That is funny. YOur definition of objective is literally someone who agrees with you.