Welfare applicants decline to take drug test, fueling debate over new law

[Jackson]

Dr. Grump,

First of all I like your post and want you to know that. But I have a qualm with this:

"You know, the one thing that peeves me about Obama haters and neocons in general is that they live on sound bites. There is no substance to their argument. They think a throw away sentence from the likes of Beck, Rush, Hannity or O'Reilly is some intriguing insight, when all it is is a partisan, insipid few words with no hard data or research to back them up." Me

"Obama haters annd neocons." I never really understood the term neocon so I will simply admit my stupidity on that. But would like you to define "Obama hater" for me. I would not vote for the president for I think he has been a failure and we cannot take any more time with his agenda and administration than we have to. Does the make me an Obama hater? I think he is a lovely man and would welcome him and family as neighbors. Just not the leader of our country.

So I would assume I am bunched in with an entire group of people that have no substance to my arguments, use throw away sentences I've heard from conservatives with no hard data to back my thoughts or arguments.

No you didn't say this, but I am left to assume, that those who's arguments you agree with, you have no problems with their arguments and you see no faults with their limited language skills, data and and sometimes less than thought out issues, as exemplified by the OWS.


I'm just thinking that this bias you have may actually be more on target on an individual basis rather than a group of people and on both sides of the aisle..

 

[bripat9643]

Nearly 1,600 Fla. welfare applicants decline to take drug test, fueling debate over new law

MIAMI — State figures show that hundreds of welfare applicants in Florida have declined to take drug tests that have been required for the assistance since mid-July.
Thirty-two applicants failed the test, 7,028 passed and 1,597 didn’t take it, according figures released Tuesday the Department of Children and Families. People who decline to take the test aren’t required to explain.

Proponents of the law have suggested applicants would be deterred because they knew they would test positive. Critics say applicants may not have taken the test because they couldn’t afford the fee that can be as much as $35 or didn’t have easy access to a testing facility.

Not sure how I feel about this.

What's the point if they aren't required to take the test? Let the government pay for it, but make them all take it, and they should become ineligable for welfare if they test positive.

 

[Inthemiddle]

This law is designed not to punish, but weed out the users and abusers of the system. The theory being, if you have money to support a drug habit, you have money to pay your bills and feed your children, and the tax payers don't wanna support your lazy stoned behind.

The punishment is that innocent people are being forced to surrender their constitutional rights to privacy for the sake of uncovering the wrong doing of others. This is the very antithesis of American concepts of freedom and our constitutional protections.

 

[ClosedCaption]

If you want entitlements spent responsibly sounds like you want someone to check on that, expanding govt. Drug testing doesn't have shit to do with spending entitlements responsibly.

 

[Inthemiddle]

This is tax payer money intended to help people in need to feed, clothes and provide shelter for themselves and their children.

And what of corporate welfare to the oil industry? This is tax payer money intended to help an industry that is vital to the public good and economy remain sustainable and viable. Should we invoke drug testing of every employee and invested in oil companies, to make sure that they're not using the portion of their paychecks that comes from government subsidies on things like drugs? If you say no, then the same argument is not valid on individual welfare.

 

[Againsheila]

Society has every right to demand limits be set when they are footing the bill. The moochers should be thankful.

The constitution also prohibits unreasonable searches. Also, if you feel this way, why are you opposed to my suggestion for STD testing to ensure that food stamps aren't being used to buy prostitutes?

I hate to break it to you, but prostitutes aren't the only ones you get STDs from.

 

[Care4all]

So 1500+ refused testing? You can bet your last welfare dollar that less than 10% of them refused so on principal. And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that to be true.

It is not unconstitutional, nor is it an invasion of privacy, I've pissed in more bottles than I can remember. Especially in the military. But I also filled a few as terms of civilian employment.

If you truly need assistance, you will take the test or clean up and take the test. If you refuse you must not need the offered assistance. Move along and find someplace else to run your scam.

If you are an addict there are hundreds of programs you can enroll in voluntarily. I'll bet if you really needed assistance for food, shelter, or clothing, then you would register and dry out in order to get it. I bet the state will even assist you........

Of course many simply do not want to stop taking their drugs. The real world scares the piss out of them....

in many cases, here in maine, it is against the state laws to drug test....for right to privacy reasons....i posted this earlier....then again, mainers are a breed of their own...my state even refused to adhere to the federal gvt's push to make certain our driver's licenses comply with homeland security measures.

people seem to forget we live in a Republic, and States Rule.

any federal gvt requirement for drug testing truck drivers of hazardous wastes or things like that are met by the state, but not without resistance.

obviously, floridians don't have the same state constitution or rights or limited gvt powers that we do up here in maine, but you can bet your bottom dollar that this will be challenged in the courts, even there!.

 

[The T]

If you want entitlements spent responsibly sounds like you want someone to check on that, expanding govt. Drug testing doesn't have shit to do with spending entitlements responsibly.

IF they are spent outside the intent? The people demand accountability, and responsibility.

Get it ACE?

 

[Jackson]

This is tax payer money intended to help people in need to feed, clothes and provide shelter for themselves and their children.

And what of corporate welfare to the oil industry? This is tax payer money intended to help an industry that is vital to the public good and economy remain sustainable and viable. Should we invoke drug testing of every employee and invested in oil companies, to make sure that they're not using the portion of their paychecks that comes from government subsidies on things like drugs? If you say no, then the same argument is not valid on individual welfare.

corporate welfare to the oil industry? employees invested in oil industries making sure that they are using the portion that comes from gov't subsidies? Can't follow that. Think we are talking apples and oranges, friend. Out of my league, lol.

 

[Jackson]

So 1500+ refused testing? You can bet your last welfare dollar that less than 10% of them refused so on principal. And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that to be true.

It is not unconstitutional, nor is it an invasion of privacy, I've pissed in more bottles than I can remember. Especially in the military. But I also filled a few as terms of civilian employment.

If you truly need assistance, you will take the test or clean up and take the test. If you refuse you must not need the offered assistance. Move along and find someplace else to run your scam.

If you are an addict there are hundreds of programs you can enroll in voluntarily. I'll bet if you really needed assistance for food, shelter, or clothing, then you would register and dry out in order to get it. I bet the state will even assist you........

Of course many simply do not want to stop taking their drugs. The real world scares the piss out of them....

in many cases, here in maine, it is against the state laws to drug test....for right to privacy reasons....i posted this earlier....then again, mainers are a breed of their own...my state even refused to adhere to the federal gvt's push to make certain our driver's licenses comply with homeland security measures.

people seem to forget we live in a Republic, and States Rule.

any federal gvt requirement for drug testing truck drivers of hazardous wastes or things like that are met by the state, but not without resistance.

obviously, floridians don't have the same state constitution or rights or limited gvt powers that we do up here in maine, but you can bet your bottom dollar that this will be challenged in the courts, even there!.

You're right, Care! It is being challenged.

 

[Care4all]

If you want entitlements spent responsibly sounds like you want someone to check on that, expanding govt. Drug testing doesn't have shit to do with spending entitlements responsibly.

IF they are spent outside the intent? The people demand accountability, and responsibility.

Get it ACE?

so that's it? that's all you are going to require from them to prove they are spending it responsibly? just a drug test? not an alcohol use test, or a going to McDonalds too many times a week test? Or a: are you looking for a job with your gas money spent test?

i guess you DO believe in small gvt!!!!

 

[SFC Ollie]

So 1500+ refused testing? You can bet your last welfare dollar that less than 10% of them refused so on principal. And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that to be true.

It is not unconstitutional, nor is it an invasion of privacy, I've pissed in more bottles than I can remember. Especially in the military. But I also filled a few as terms of civilian employment.

If you truly need assistance, you will take the test or clean up and take the test. If you refuse you must not need the offered assistance. Move along and find someplace else to run your scam.

If you are an addict there are hundreds of programs you can enroll in voluntarily. I'll bet if you really needed assistance for food, shelter, or clothing, then you would register and dry out in order to get it. I bet the state will even assist you........

Of course many simply do not want to stop taking their drugs. The real world scares the piss out of them....

in many cases, here in maine, it is against the state laws to drug test....for right to privacy reasons....i posted this earlier....then again, mainers are a breed of their own...my state even refused to adhere to the federal gvt's push to make certain our driver's licenses comply with homeland security measures.

people seem to forget we live in a Republic, and States Rule.

any federal gvt requirement for drug testing truck drivers of hazardous wastes or things like that are met by the state, but not without resistance.

obviously, floridians don't have the same state constitution or rights or limited gvt powers that we do up here in maine, but you can bet your bottom dollar that this will be challenged in the courts, even there!.

States rights are a good thing. And yes I expect it will be tried in the courts, but I don't think it will be overturned. I would vote for it myself if it came to that here in Ohio.

 

[Care4all]

So 1500+ refused testing? You can bet your last welfare dollar that less than 10% of them refused so on principal. And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that to be true.

It is not unconstitutional, nor is it an invasion of privacy, I've pissed in more bottles than I can remember. Especially in the military. But I also filled a few as terms of civilian employment.

If you truly need assistance, you will take the test or clean up and take the test. If you refuse you must not need the offered assistance. Move along and find someplace else to run your scam.

If you are an addict there are hundreds of programs you can enroll in voluntarily. I'll bet if you really needed assistance for food, shelter, or clothing, then you would register and dry out in order to get it. I bet the state will even assist you........

Of course many simply do not want to stop taking their drugs. The real world scares the piss out of them....

in many cases, here in maine, it is against the state laws to drug test....for right to privacy reasons....i posted this earlier....then again, mainers are a breed of their own...my state even refused to adhere to the federal gvt's push to make certain our driver's licenses comply with homeland security measures.

people seem to forget we live in a Republic, and States Rule.

any federal gvt requirement for drug testing truck drivers of hazardous wastes or things like that are met by the state, but not without resistance.

obviously, floridians don't have the same state constitution or rights or limited gvt powers that we do up here in maine, but you can bet your bottom dollar that this will be challenged in the courts, even there!.

States rights are a good thing. And yes I expect it will be tried in the courts, but I don't think it will be overturned. I would vote for it myself if it came to that here in Ohio.

if we didn't have a constitution that proctected us from that gvt over reach, i'd personally be for it too, i think???

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Not sure how I feel about this.

If we had 4.4 percent unemployment and a booming housing market this wouldn’t even be an issue.

Otherwise it’s a violation of the 4th Amendment; it’s a ‘presumption of guilt,’ as the state can provide no compelling interest to test those applying for benefits nor is there any evidence applicants for public assistance are more prone to use illegal drugs than the general population.

Pure harassment? lol nobody is forcing them to take the hand out... to call this harassment is either not knowing what harassment is or just straight diluted thinking.

I don't think welfare is a constitutionally guaranteed right so the state has the ability to hold recipients to whatever criteria they please.

The Court struck down as un-Constitutional a Georgia law requiring drug testing of state officials:

Our precedents establish that the proffered special need for drug testing must be substantial--important enough to override the individual's acknowledged privacy interest, sufficiently vital to suppress the Fourth Amendment's normal requirement of individualized suspicion… Georgia has failed to show…a special need of that kind.

Chandler v. Miller, 520 U.S. 305 (1997)

That will be the case for Florida as well, as testing public assistance applicants has even less ‘merit’ than the Georgia statue.

I'm quite certain the state of Fla. has the capacity to decide if their laws work for the state of Fla. We don't need you doofus to decide. Like I said. spend your drug money on food, test clean and if you still need help.. well then we'll take your applications.

Fortunately Florida is subject to the US Constitution, and whether or not one’s rights are violated is not determined by the majority.

 

[ClosedCaption]

If you want entitlements spent responsibly sounds like you want someone to check on that, expanding govt. Drug testing doesn't have shit to do with spending entitlements responsibly.

IF they are spent outside the intent? The people demand accountability, and responsibility.

Get it ACE?

A drug test doesnt show if welfare is being spent outside of it's intent, try again ACE.

 

[Ernie S.]

What is a drug test going to prove? and why is it relevant to receiving welfare? If you're on drugs your kids dont have hunger?

If you have money for drugs, you have money for food for your kids and don't need welfare.

 

[Againsheila]

False.

As an overall percentage, very few companies do pre-employment drug tests. And of those, even fewer do random drug tests.

You just make shit up, doncha?

{Drug testing, legally required for many public employers, has become widespread in the private sector over the past two decades. A 2006 survey by the Society for Human Resource Management found that 84 percent of employers required new hires to pass drug screenings, and 39 percent randomly tested employees after they were hired. In addition, 73 percent tested workers when drug use was suspected and 58 percent required testing after accidents on the job.}

Job Applicant? Expect a Drug Test | TheLedger.com

Interesting claim to be sure. But I wish they would've given more detail about the actual survey since it conflicts with everything I've ever read. I've yet to be given an employment drug test, nor do I know anyone personally that has ever had to take one.

I'm guessing you haven't changed jobs in the past 10 years, or known anyone that has. Everyone I've ever applied to in the last 10 years has required a drug test.

 

[Care4all]

You just make shit up, doncha?

{Drug testing, legally required for many public employers, has become widespread in the private sector over the past two decades. A 2006 survey by the Society for Human Resource Management found that 84 percent of employers required new hires to pass drug screenings, and 39 percent randomly tested employees after they were hired. In addition, 73 percent tested workers when drug use was suspected and 58 percent required testing after accidents on the job.}

Job Applicant? Expect a Drug Test | TheLedger.com

Interesting claim to be sure. But I wish they would've given more detail about the actual survey since it conflicts with everything I've ever read. I've yet to be given an employment drug test, nor do I know anyone personally that has ever had to take one.

I'm guessing you haven't changed jobs in the past 10 years, or known anyone that has. Everyone I've ever applied to in the last 10 years has required a drug test.

it all depends on which state you live in....

my state limits workplace drug testing based on our right to privacy....his state does the same, i presume? While your state does not protect it....i presume again! i lived in his state and worked there several years, and my hubby had 4 different jobs in the 9 years living there, not one was drug tested....

like i said earlier, it depends on the state you live in.

 

[Gadawg73]

Come on folks, let us get in the REAL WORLD.
You work for a professional organization and there is a top salesman from another entity that is not happy with his deal with the company he is with. Another competitor in this high tech or high WHATEVER company could use this gun that is a closer and a deal maker.
And the competitor that lands this guy is YOUR COMPANY.
After the legal matters involving any covenant not to compete agreements either implied or in writing are disposed of, the young gun is let go and he/she brings in 1.5 mil in business the first year.
Sometime after that, before the deal was done, after half the deals were done, half past the hair on the elbow OR WTF, the business '"finds out" the hot shot has/"had" a drug problem. Snorts, runs it, eats it, inhales it, crams it up their ass. His client list has expanded and his sales are estimated at 2.1 mil in 2012. Or more.
Does this individual EVER get drug tested?
Remember, we are talking REAL WORLD here.
Or does a team of experts including the intelligence that was hired since this dude was hired to cover his actions and report, advise management NOT to drug test and let everyone know?
Not saying this is right but this is what HAS been done for the last 40 years.
And it will NEVER change.
Real world.

 

[Care4all]

Should
Doctors
Nurses
Bus Drivers
Teachers
Firemen
Policemen
Be drug tested?

Most jobs have mandatory drug testing to get the job and then random drug testing during the year

most jobs WHERE? Not in my state, nor the previous state that I lived in....

maybe in your state this is the case, but each state has their own laws and protections on this....