Well said Ron Huldai...

[Indeependent]

That's a real shame Lipush...

Your post is bordering on hysterical rather than dealing with the subject of the thread...

I had hoped that you may have made sensible comment rather than taking the 'Zionist victimhood' route!

Or simply an attempt to derail the thread as having a prominent political Israeli stating that the occupation by Israel is a cause for Palestinian terrorism does NOT fit in with the Zionist mantra!

The Palestinians say day and night long they want to destroy Israel...

There were THOUSANDS of cases of terrorism before the occupation..

Yes, my post is "hysterical".

I'm curious on how your mind works?


Buttom line is- it's not because of any occupation. It never was. If it was the pure reason, you wouldn't have heard of our enemies attacking and killing Jews abroad, or killing us before the "occupation"

How my mind works?

Simple...

End the occupation...

End the blockade on Gaza...

'Free' the Palestinians...

Once that happens... IF Palestinian aggression continues then I support Israel to blow the shit out of ANY terrorist that chooses to attack it!

It's THAT simple... That's how MY mind works!

Please, PLEASE, don't tell me that it is "necessary" to maintain the occupation and blockade for "security" reasons...

Israel has MORE than enough firepower to destroy ANYTHING that Hamas/PA can throw at it! That has been proven... Israel also has the aggression to do so... That has also been proven!

Let me ask you... How long do you think it would take for Israel to, for example, overthrow Hamas, destroy Gaza and continue its "Greater Israel" plans?

I have an idea of how long that would take, but I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that!

I Think you are wrong from the very essence of that thought.
One must never submit or compromise to violence and extortions, it is a very slippery slop to self destruction.

A little off topic, but you have a interesting signature picture - what does it symbolize?

To be fair, this is ALL gone way off topic...

However, the debates/comments have been interesting...

The OP relates to the mayor of Tel Aviv, Ron Huldai, blaming Israel's occupation as a reason for attacks by Palestinians...

Has there been a single post from a single Israeli or Israel supporter agreeing or arguing against his words?

Not a one has managed to put forward a sensible, cohesive argument against the belief of Ron Huldai... Could it be a simple 'deflection' of fact as it's far too 'dangerous' to contemplate? That maybe, just maybe, the Israeli occupation really IS a reason for attacks against Israel?!?!

I am absolutely SHOCKED that ANYONE from the super secular Tel Aviv would be anti-Israel...
Until Hamas starts lobbing some more missiles at them again.

 

[Daniyel]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

I Actually do have an idea for something that can work out, I will talk about it in the future. Now back to the topic, a Status quo is not an permanent solution but the "default/temporary" silent-understanding, therefore, we (Israelis) must not trust the Palestinians with greater freedom to commit greater atrocities, and before you jump into Ron Huldai's hands make sure you are well prepared to meet the floor, Tel Aviv is known to be the home of the radical left wing that sees nothing beyond the here-and-now, occupation or not it doesnt justifies murder of innocent people, period.

 

[Daniyel]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...


!

Sorry I kinda got lost, you did offer a solution that would be magical for the Palestinians but a national disaster for Israel (regional disaster some would say) - but the good news is that I got some logo ideas for your blindfold, take a look.

(Ignore the BLA/RAFC logos)

 

[Indeependent]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...


!

Sorry I kinda got lost, you did offer a solution that would be magical for the Palestinians but a national disaster for Israel (regional disaster some would say) - but the good news is that I got some logo ideas for your blindfold, take a look.

(Ignore the BLA logo)

These logos won't do...not enough weapons.

 

[Shusha]

I want Gaza to have the freedom to grow...

What I don't want is Gaza to have the ability to grow its military arsenal, just its ability to grow socially...

We want the same thing. What specific differences would this international force put it to place than what is in place now? What consequences might those differences have? If those consequences involve attacks on Israel -- would Israel have the right to respond or will she turn over the defense of her citizens to this international force?

 

[Phoenall]

Of course, Israel has a right to defend itself. That is a given.​

​

Link?

You DON'T think sovereign nations have a right to defend their citizens against attacks? Or their sovereignty against attacks?

Duck.

NO no duck, no deflection, no derailment just fact that under the terms of the UN charter Israel is allowed to defend against illegal attacks from hamas and fatah and no manipulation of the truth will change that.

Where does it say that Israel has the right to defend itself?

Try reading it instead of asking stupid questions, it is there if you look. It does not name Israel but it is a blanket cover for all sovereign nations.

 

[Phoenall]

Humanity, et al,

The credibility of an International Maritime Peacekeeping Unit is fairly low.

When the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) was confronted by the Egyptian Military and ordered to withdraw and allow the advance element of 100,000 troops to stage on the border with Israel, the UNEF folded.
​

There is no reliability that such peacekeeping could possibly face even a small formation of six civilian ships like that of the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla," and conduct an interdiction. All the flotilla would do is continue on, safe in the knowledge that the UNEF would not use force.

The status quo may be all that is reasonably available.
(COMMENT)

Right now, on the Northern Border Lebanon, Hezbollah has illicit weapons and drug traffic as a huge part of the business plan:

100 Hezbollah sleeper cells in Latin America linked to drug trafficking, Report

“”Latin American media reports confirmed that there are more than 100 sleeper cells affiliated with the Lebanese Hezbollah in Latin America and that they are spreading in the Triple Frontier; the tri-border between Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay and in other areas on the Venezuelan-Columbian border where drug trafficking thrives. The Triple Frontier is considered one of the most dangerous areas in the world due to the drug trafficking and the money laundering activities that take place there.””
​

(COMMENT)

Relaxing the blockade can only come after the Hostile Arab Palestinians demonstrates a sustained period of peace. The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) is a nationalist-Islamist spinoff from the Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, and will exploit any opportunity that arises. Similarly, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) has adopted such a strategy.

Jihad is the way forward in HAMAS terms.

Most Respectfully,

R

Relaxing the blockade can only come after the Hostile Arab Palestinians demonstrates a sustained period of peace.​

Why should the Palestinians (the victims of Israel's aggression) lay down their arms in hopes that one day the liars would eventually follow suit?

because they are the ones that started the violence way back in 1921, so they are the ones that need to bring the war to an end. Don't forget tinny the history books all say that the Palestinians under the Mufti started the violence against the Jews that led to the formation of the IDF groups Irgun and Stern, these were mobile units that went to the scene of Palestinian attacks to defend the Jewish people from harm.

Not!

You are reading Israel's bullshit version.

No I am reading the currently accepted version of events that is born out by Islamic records and British records.

Examples?

British reports to the LoN and the letters from the arab league to anyone that would listen. Now go and look for them and stop asking such stupid questions.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

Because that is an impossibility while the Palestinians are muslims and follow the teachings of the koran. What chance is there of hamas closing down and moving back to Egypt.

Until you come up with a viable way to stop the islamonazi violence and terrorism the status quo is all we have. And up to now all you have put forward is plans to cripple Israel and wipe out the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

So, this sounds to me like you want to keep the blockade. You just want it run by international forces, rather than Israel.

Nope...

Not a blockade as is currently in force...

I want Gaza to have the freedom to grow...

What I don't want is Gaza to have the ability to grow its military arsenal, just its ability to grow socially...

I don't think you would disagree with that...

A single COUNTRY, a neighbouring country, accused of many atrocities against its neighbour, is probably, in my opinion, not best placed to monitor their neighbour!

Surely you can see the advantages of the accused 'oppressor' not having to 'oppress' anymore?

Hand responsibility over to "international forces"... Israel then becomes the 'innocent' party...

It's that simple... Isn't it?

They have the freedom to grow and refuse to take it on board because they are forced to take on he roles of martyrs.

Your LIES fool no one as Israel tried the walking away and letting them get on with things way back in 2005, this led to an increase in violence, terrorism and war crimes. Your claims regarding Israel show that you are a RABID JEW HATER and jump on the faked made up claims against Israel by the worst offenders for the crimes Israel is accused of. And how long before the arab league decided it is able to wipe out the Jews and destroy Israel and so tell the International force to get out of their nations. What will you back up your "international force" with UN owned and operated nuclear weapons ?

Being simple like you are makes your laughable unworkable plan seem simple if the arab muslims illegal immigrants will play ball. As an idea as to how your simple remedy wont work read the hamas, fatah and Palestinian charters ?

 

[Phoenall]

That's a real shame Lipush...

Your post is bordering on hysterical rather than dealing with the subject of the thread...

I had hoped that you may have made sensible comment rather than taking the 'Zionist victimhood' route!

Or simply an attempt to derail the thread as having a prominent political Israeli stating that the occupation by Israel is a cause for Palestinian terrorism does NOT fit in with the Zionist mantra!

The Palestinians say day and night long they want to destroy Israel...

There were THOUSANDS of cases of terrorism before the occupation..

Yes, my post is "hysterical".

I'm curious on how your mind works?


Buttom line is- it's not because of any occupation. It never was. If it was the pure reason, you wouldn't have heard of our enemies attacking and killing Jews abroad, or killing us before the "occupation"

How my mind works?

Simple...

End the occupation...

End the blockade on Gaza...

'Free' the Palestinians...

Once that happens... IF Palestinian aggression continues then I support Israel to blow the shit out of ANY terrorist that chooses to attack it!

It's THAT simple... That's how MY mind works!

Please, PLEASE, don't tell me that it is "necessary" to maintain the occupation and blockade for "security" reasons...

Israel has MORE than enough firepower to destroy ANYTHING that Hamas/PA can throw at it! That has been proven... Israel also has the aggression to do so... That has also been proven!

Let me ask you... How long do you think it would take for Israel to, for example, overthrow Hamas, destroy Gaza and continue its "Greater Israel" plans?

I have an idea of how long that would take, but I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that!

I Think you are wrong from the very essence of that thought.
One must never submit or compromise to violence and extortions, it is a very slippery slop to self destruction.

A little off topic, but you have a interesting signature picture - what does it symbolize?

To be fair, this is ALL gone way off topic...

However, the debates/comments have been interesting...

The OP relates to the mayor of Tel Aviv, Ron Huldai, blaming Israel's occupation as a reason for attacks by Palestinians...

Has there been a single post from a single Israeli or Israel supporter agreeing or arguing against his words?

Not a one has managed to put forward a sensible, cohesive argument against the belief of Ron Huldai... Could it be a simple 'deflection' of fact as it's far too 'dangerous' to contemplate? That maybe, just maybe, the Israeli occupation really IS a reason for attacks against Israel?!?!

And it is only in your fantasy world that your arguments are sensible, cohesive and workable, all down to your blinkered view based on Jew hatred and not evidential facts. Put those facts in place and your posts are reduced to zionut hasbara Zionist terrorism and mass murders.

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

Yeah, I have to admit, you give a great chuckle sometimes

The credibility of an International Maritime Peacekeeping Unit is fairly low.

Really?

(COMMENT)

These are not (REPEAT) not --- UN Peacekeeping Forces. These have US Navy hull numbers. This could be elements of the US 6th Fleet, maybe a Mediterranean Task Force with an Amphibious Command Ship (LCC) flanked by a couple destroyers. I bet this picture is pretty old. That LCC is probably the USS Mount Whitney (LCC 20), out of Gaeta, Italy. Its sister ship is in the far east. (I have a 50-50 chance of being right since there are only 2 LCCs in the Navy.)

I think the only UN Naval assets/contingent would be the intermittent assignment of Allied Warships during UN Combine Forces Command (CFC) exercises in Korea. But I don't think there are any permanent assignments.

I do not think that NATO Forces like those assigned to the Allied Joint Force Command (JFS) Naples (Lago Patria), have have dedicated peacekeeping forces for the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

I never said they were, but NATO naval forces can be deployed in a peacekeeping role under a U.N. mandate, can they not?

 

[Humanity]

I want Gaza to have the freedom to grow...

What I don't want is Gaza to have the ability to grow its military arsenal, just its ability to grow socially...

We want the same thing. What specific differences would this international force put it to place than what is in place now? What consequences might those differences have? If those consequences involve attacks on Israel -- would Israel have the right to respond or will she turn over the defense of her citizens to this international force?

The difference would be have feet on the ground, in Gaza... The force could easily monitor imports/exports into Gaza plus monitor activities of Hamas and, perhaps, encourage new, free elections?

I would hope that the consequences would NOT result in attacks on Israel...

I believe that Israel should retain its right to defend itself... However, there should be 'options'....

Work WITH the international force

Have limited involvement in 'defense'... That is not to say that an international force would maintain a presence in Israel... Israel would STILL have total defense within its borders.

In the current circumstances its just too easy to 'criticize/demonize' Israel... If Israel took a 'backseat' then certain folks would have nothing to bitch about...

 

[Humanity]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

Because that is an impossibility while the Palestinians are muslims and follow the teachings of the koran. What chance is there of hamas closing down and moving back to Egypt.

Until you come up with a viable way to stop the islamonazi violence and terrorism the status quo is all we have. And up to now all you have put forward is plans to cripple Israel and wipe out the Jews.

Rather than bitching like a girl Phoney...

How about you put forward a solution for peace...

 

[Phoenall]

I want Gaza to have the freedom to grow...

What I don't want is Gaza to have the ability to grow its military arsenal, just its ability to grow socially...

We want the same thing. What specific differences would this international force put it to place than what is in place now? What consequences might those differences have? If those consequences involve attacks on Israel -- would Israel have the right to respond or will she turn over the defense of her citizens to this international force?

If you read his posts he wants Israel to do nothing when hamas starts lobbing illegal weapons and killing children by the thousand. He wants the Jews to pack their bags and leave Israel so that then he can say that a non violent solution was found and that it is sorted. If Israel responds as it does now he will claim Zionist terrorism, hasbara propaganda and Jewish violence are to blame for the attacks. Being an islamonazi apologist he will never blame the problems on the Palestinians as to do so would put him in breach of his religion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

Because that is an impossibility while the Palestinians are muslims and follow the teachings of the koran. What chance is there of hamas closing down and moving back to Egypt.

Until you come up with a viable way to stop the islamonazi violence and terrorism the status quo is all we have. And up to now all you have put forward is plans to cripple Israel and wipe out the Jews.

Rather than bitching like a girl Phoney...

How about you put forward a solution for peace...

Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the presence of justice. ~ MLK

With all of the so called generous offers made to the Palestinians, none of them included justice.

 

[Phoenall]

I want Gaza to have the freedom to grow...

What I don't want is Gaza to have the ability to grow its military arsenal, just its ability to grow socially...

We want the same thing. What specific differences would this international force put it to place than what is in place now? What consequences might those differences have? If those consequences involve attacks on Israel -- would Israel have the right to respond or will she turn over the defense of her citizens to this international force?

The difference would be have feet on the ground, in Gaza... The force could easily monitor imports/exports into Gaza plus monitor activities of Hamas and, perhaps, encourage new, free elections?

I would hope that the consequences would NOT result in attacks on Israel...

I believe that Israel should retain its right to defend itself... However, there should be 'options'....

Work WITH the international force

Have limited involvement in 'defense'... That is not to say that an international force would maintain a presence in Israel... Israel would STILL have total defense within its borders.

In the current circumstances its just too easy to 'criticize/demonize' Israel... If Israel took a 'backseat' then certain folks would have nothing to bitch about...

Totally unworkable as you well know because the arab league would use bully boy methods to remove the international force unless it was backed up by say US, Russian and China nuclear weapons.

By limited involvement you mean no response to illegal attacks even when children are the targets.

For there to be no attacks on Israel would meant the complete extinction of all Jew haters.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

Because that is an impossibility while the Palestinians are muslims and follow the teachings of the koran. What chance is there of hamas closing down and moving back to Egypt.

Until you come up with a viable way to stop the islamonazi violence and terrorism the status quo is all we have. And up to now all you have put forward is plans to cripple Israel and wipe out the Jews.

Rather than bitching like a girl Phoney...

How about you put forward a solution for peace...

I have so why don't you read what people write, and not what you think was written.

The only solution is for the UN to get hard with the arab league and Palestinians, then start fining them for their crimes against humanity.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's try something else, if you or anyone else here seems to be able to suggest a solution kindly share it with us.

Strangely enough... I did suggest a solution...

All you offered was the 'victimhood' card and the status quo...

Sorry Daniyel, I cannot accept the status quo as a solution!

So, how about YOU offer up a sensible, non violent, non status quo solution?

I would be very interested to read that!

Because that is an impossibility while the Palestinians are muslims and follow the teachings of the koran. What chance is there of hamas closing down and moving back to Egypt.

Until you come up with a viable way to stop the islamonazi violence and terrorism the status quo is all we have. And up to now all you have put forward is plans to cripple Israel and wipe out the Jews.

Rather than bitching like a girl Phoney...

How about you put forward a solution for peace...

Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the presence of justice. ~ MLK

With all of the so called generous offers made to the Palestinians, none of them included justice.

Because they make their own justice, it is not made for them. It seems that you are like the muslims and unable to understand concepts are not physical

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

Yeah, I have to admit, you give a great chuckle sometimes

The credibility of an International Maritime Peacekeeping Unit is fairly low.

Really?

(COMMENT)

These are not (REPEAT) not --- UN Peacekeeping Forces. These have US Navy hull numbers. This could be elements of the US 6th Fleet, maybe a Mediterranean Task Force with an Amphibious Command Ship (LCC) flanked by a couple destroyers. I bet this picture is pretty old. That LCC is probably the USS Mount Whitney (LCC 20), out of Gaeta, Italy. Its sister ship is in the far east. (I have a 50-50 chance of being right since there are only 2 LCCs in the Navy.)

I think the only UN Naval assets/contingent would be the intermittent assignment of Allied Warships during UN Combine Forces Command (CFC) exercises in Korea. But I don't think there are any permanent assignments.

I do not think that NATO Forces like those assigned to the Allied Joint Force Command (JFS) Naples (Lago Patria), have have dedicated peacekeeping forces for the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

I never said they were, but NATO naval forces can be deployed in a peacekeeping role under a U.N. mandate, can they not?

YES but they are constrained by the UN from engaging in conflict, and must leave if asked by the sovereign owners. Go back to 1967 and see what Egypt did to the UN peace keeping force.

 

[Challenger]

When the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) was confronted by the Egyptian Military and ordered to withdraw and allow the advance element of 100,000 troops to stage on the border with Israel, the UNEF folded.

No it didn't, Nasser asked it to vacate certain specific positions vital to Egypt's defence in case of a Zionist attack, but the SGUN unilaterally decided to pull UNEF out altogether in a bizarre "all or nothing" threat.

Looked this up as I posted this last from memory. Apparently Nasser initially asked that the UNEF be redeployed around Gaza but U-Thant refused and instead gave Nasser an ultimatum that the UNEF would either stay where it was or leave the area. This was a shock to Nasser, as Dag Hammarskjold U-Thant's UN prececessor had in the past engaged in diplomacy to defuse similar situations that had arisen between 1957 and 1961. Left with an "all or nothing" decision, Nasser chose to ask the UNEF to depart which it subsequently did. A fuller account can be found in "1967" by Tom Segev p273-276

It's interesting to note that when UNEF was set up, the remit was for it to cover both sides of the ceasfire line, but Zionist Israel refused to allow this as it did subsequently when the UN asked if UNEF could redeploy there. A bizzarre decision as UNEF's pressence had preserved the peace between Egypt and Zionist Israel for the last 10 years. but then Zionist war hawks were by then planning their war of aggression against both Syria and Egypt.