We're Getting Married!

[Seawytch]

I was going by the definition of immutable:

im·mu·ta·ble
adjective \(ˌ)i(m)-ˈmyü-tə-bəl\
: unable to be changed
: not capable of or susceptible to change

Where, legally, has religion been declared an immutable characteristic?

Where, legally, has homosexuality been declared an immutable characteristic?

Poor SeaBytch, I am a magnitude smarter than you, every dumb argument you make will be countered by superior logic and reasoning.

I never said that orientation has been legally declared an immutable characteristic, I asked another poster where religion had been.

The fact that you feel you have to declare yourself smarter...just highlights your obvious feelings of inadequacy.

What the fuck?

If homosexuality hasn't been legally declared an immutable characteristic than who cares if religion has you dumb shit.


Of course you claim you were "born gay" that's as likely as I was "born Christian" why do you ask me to accept you while refusing to accept me.

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

 

[Redfish]

Where, legally, has homosexuality been declared an immutable characteristic?

Poor SeaBytch, I am a magnitude smarter than you, every dumb argument you make will be countered by superior logic and reasoning.

I never said that orientation has been legally declared an immutable characteristic, I asked another poster where religion had been.

The fact that you feel you have to declare yourself smarter...just highlights your obvious feelings of inadequacy.

What the fuck?

If homosexuality hasn't been legally declared an immutable characteristic than who cares if religion has you dumb shit.


Of course you claim you were "born gay" that's as likely as I was "born Christian" why do you ask me to accept you while refusing to accept me.

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

 

[Seawytch]

I never said that orientation has been legally declared an immutable characteristic, I asked another poster where religion had been.

The fact that you feel you have to declare yourself smarter...just highlights your obvious feelings of inadequacy.

What the fuck?

If homosexuality hasn't been legally declared an immutable characteristic than who cares if religion has you dumb shit.


Of course you claim you were "born gay" that's as likely as I was "born Christian" why do you ask me to accept you while refusing to accept me.

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

 

[Redfish]

What the fuck?

If homosexuality hasn't been legally declared an immutable characteristic than who cares if religion has you dumb shit.


Of course you claim you were "born gay" that's as likely as I was "born Christian" why do you ask me to accept you while refusing to accept me.

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

 

[Seawytch]

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

No Fishy, that's what you believe gays fight for civil marriage equality is, but that's just your own drama taking over control of your common sense.

My civil marriage does not tell you how to think or believe. You are still free to be a homophobic bigot, you will just get vilified for it. Wah.

 

[squeeze berry]

Only, he must first extricate it from his incredibly tight sphincter.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

spoken like a true buttfucker

Did you know that some of the most vocal homophobes turned out to be closet homosexuals? Your disgust may be a form of disguise?

Top 5 homophobes who turned out to be gay City Pages

He's got circles around his right eye from too much glory hole viewing. And a stiff jaw.

who else around here made their own thread to announce their marriage: ?

asshole

Another angry right-winger? Many members make threads announcing the birth of a child, their children's graduation, engagements, etc.....why do you have such a sour attitude?

really?

I never see what you claim

 

[Redfish]

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

No Fishy, that's what you believe gays fight for civil marriage equality is, but that's just your own drama taking over control of your common sense.

My civil marriage does not tell you how to think or believe. You are still free to be a homophobic bigot, you will just get vilified for it. Wah.

I am neither homophobic or a bigot. YOU are the bigot in this arena. You are intolerant of anyone who does not agree with you. That makes you a bigot.

 

[squeeze berry]

now that gay marriage is legal everywhere, I think?, what will gays have to bitch about to bring attention to themselves?

 

[Silhouette]

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

Ha, caught ya Seawytch. Seawytch LOVES to equal black struggles with her gay cult. It is a comparison that is vile and is winning few friends among black suffrage because of the unbelievably-offensive comparison between a deviant sex cult and the harrowing struggles of an actual race of people.

But let's have a little fun with Seawytch's false-comparison, shall we?

OK Seawytch, you claim to be 100% against forcing churches to participate in gay weddings. Are you 100% against forcing churches to perform weddings where black people are getting married? Or where a black and white person are trying to marry?

 

[Howey]

spoken like a true buttfucker

Did you know that some of the most vocal homophobes turned out to be closet homosexuals? Your disgust may be a form of disguise?

Top 5 homophobes who turned out to be gay City Pages

He's got circles around his right eye from too much glory hole viewing. And a stiff jaw.

who else around here made their own thread to announce their marriage: ?

asshole

Another angry right-winger? Many members make threads announcing the birth of a child, their children's graduation, engagements, etc.....why do you have such a sour attitude?

really?

I never see what you claim

If you don't like the thread, get the fuck out.

 

[Howey]

now that gay marriage is legal everywhere, I think?, what will gays have to bitch about to bring attention to themselves?

You mean like you're doing right now?

 

[Jroc]

So blacks were idiots for wanting the Mormons to accept them? You're welcome to your opinion but I don't think they were stupid at all...and they won. Gays are winning this battle too.

New study finds a greater church acceptance of gays and lesbians Pew Research Center

I was born with same sex attractions and you certainly can't prove I wasn't. There is considerably more evidence of a genetic predisposition than there is proof sexual orientation is a choice.

And likewise you can't prove I wasnt born a Christian who believes being gay is a sin

That one's easy...religion is a choice and not an immutable trait whereas sexuality is well accepted in scientific circles to be an immutable trait. People don't choose their orientation, whereas they most certainly choose their religion. They do choose to act upon their natural or god given inclinations, but the feelings themselves are not a choice.

Christianity itself requires that you make a choice to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Some people are born feeling compelled to be religious.

Prove I'm wrong

Legally both religion and sexuality are considered to be immutable traits.

And that doesn't require that one is born with either a religious compulsion or a sexual preference.

I was going by the definition of immutable:

im·mu·ta·ble
adjective \(ˌ)i(m)-ˈmyü-tə-bəl\
: unable to be changed
: not capable of or susceptible to change

Where, legally, has religion been declared an immutable characteristic?

Are bi-sexual "immutable" should they be allowed one spouse of each gender?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

now that gay marriage is legal everywhere, I think?, what will gays have to bitch about to bring attention to themselves?

You mean like you're doing right now?

Sorry Howey, this is an area where dumbshits like SeaBytch and Bodecea do you no favors.

 

[Syriusly]

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

Why should anyone 'shut the fuck up' about demanding their rights?

The Loving's didn't 'shut the fuck up' - they went to court and won- and the law changed- 20 years before change of public opinion happened 'naturally'.

Demanding the end of mixed race marriage bans did not generate more opposition to mixed race marriage bans- it lead to less opposition to mixed race marriage bans. The same is happening with gay marriage bans- already public opinion has shifted from opposition to support.

 

[Jroc]

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

Why should anyone 'shut the fuck up' about demanding their rights?

The Loving's didn't 'shut the fuck up' - they went to court and won- and the law changed- 20 years before change of public opinion happened 'naturally'.

Demanding the end of mixed race marriage bans did not generate more opposition to mixed race marriage bans- it lead to less opposition to mixed race marriage bans. The same is happening with gay marriage bans- already public opinion has shifted from opposition to support.

When gay couples can conceive a child, I'll change my opinion. Until then, same sex marriage does not equate

 

[Syriusly]

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

Ha, caught ya Seawytch. Seawytch LOVES to equal black struggles with her gay cult. I

What is vile is homophobic bigotry like yours.

The struggle for equal rights is never the same struggle- but it is still the struggle for equal rights. Women fought for equal rights- Jews fought for equal rights- Blacks for equal rights- and homosexuals have fought for equal rights.

Remember only about 40 years ago- people like yourself were fighting to deny employment to homosexuals- based purely upon their attraction to the same gender. People like yourself were getting homosexuals arrested for the crime of being with other homosexuals.

What is vile is homophobic bigotry like yours.

 

[Syriusly]

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

Why should anyone 'shut the fuck up' about demanding their rights?

The Loving's didn't 'shut the fuck up' - they went to court and won- and the law changed- 20 years before change of public opinion happened 'naturally'.

Demanding the end of mixed race marriage bans did not generate more opposition to mixed race marriage bans- it lead to less opposition to mixed race marriage bans. The same is happening with gay marriage bans- already public opinion has shifted from opposition to support.

When gay couples can conceive a child, I'll change my opinion. Until then, same sex marriage does not equate

Oh I am quite confident that you will never be able to conceive of treating homosexuals equally.

 

[Syriusly]

I never said that orientation has been legally declared an immutable characteristic, I asked another poster where religion had been.

The fact that you feel you have to declare yourself smarter...just highlights your obvious feelings of inadequacy.

What the fuck?

If homosexuality hasn't been legally declared an immutable characteristic than who cares if religion has you dumb shit.


Of course you claim you were "born gay" that's as likely as I was "born Christian" why do you ask me to accept you while refusing to accept me.

Maybe you should read and follow the entire thread instead of just obsessing over my posts.. Another poster declared religion a legally immutable trait and I inquired as to the case law they are ascribing to that statement.

How, exactly, am I refusing to accept you as a Christian? Have I tried to pass laws that would prohibit you from marrying the non familial consenting adult of your choice? Have I denied you access to your loved one in the hospital? Have I tried to kick you out of the military for your Christianity?

Have I dont any of that to you? Nope sure haven't.

Let me tell you something Mrs Smarty Pants. In 2005 it was brought to my attention that a man serving under my command was gay and had been observed kissing another man. My LEGAL obligation was to court martial him and have him discharged from the Army.

My MORAL obligation was to risk my own career to ignore a "crime" that I felt was unjust.

I seriously doubt that you have ever put yourself at such risk for a Christian, so don't dare to preach at me .

Yes, absolutely you have suggested that people should use peer pressure to force churches to accept gays. Have I suggested using peer pressure to force you to be straight?

I realize you find it offensive to be told you're a hypocritical piece of shit, but you are a hypocritical piece of shit.

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

But you think government dictate is right for dictating change when it comes to race...but not when it comes to sexual orientation.

What hypocrisy.

 

[Jroc]

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

Why should anyone 'shut the fuck up' about demanding their rights?

The Loving's didn't 'shut the fuck up' - they went to court and won- and the law changed- 20 years before change of public opinion happened 'naturally'.

Demanding the end of mixed race marriage bans did not generate more opposition to mixed race marriage bans- it lead to less opposition to mixed race marriage bans. The same is happening with gay marriage bans- already public opinion has shifted from opposition to support.

When gay couples can conceive a child, I'll change my opinion. Until then, same sex marriage does not equate

Oh I am quite confident that you will never be able to conceive of treating homosexuals equally.

I've defined Equality for you ...Learn the definition

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Really? You doubt that do you? I spent 20 years in the Coast Guard, Dumber than Dirt so I risked my life for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and the occasional Satanist. (Story for another day). I now serve the voters of my community regardless of their race, religion, gender, nation of origin, sexual orientation AND political affiliation. Some of my best and favorite "customers" (regular candidates and Central Committee Members) are Christian Republicans. They get the same excellent quality service from me that the liberal, gay Green Party members do.

Yes, I absolutely have suggested that peer pressure be used on churches to accept their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters just as people put pressure on the Mormons to accept blacks into their church and then into positions of leadership. I have said it over and over, I'm not ashamed of my desire to see churches be more accepting. My position echos that of young people who are turning away from the church because of their positions on gays.

You are trying to compare unrelated things. My wanting churches to accpet gays is in no way, shape or form, akin to someone wanting someone else to change their sexual orientation (and not just because you can't you know).

I've answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you object to the public pressure put on the Mormon church to accept blacks, yes or no?

Peer pressure is the correct way to effect change, government dictate is not.

do you see the difference?

and for one final time, race and sexual orientation are not analogous.

I'm not advocating for the government to force churches. I'm completely and 100% opposed to such a thing.

Got another Strawman?

For the final time, race and sexual orientation are not being compared, the discrimination is.

Were the Mormons opposed to blacks in their churches for religious reasons? Yes they were. Did public pressure put on the Mormons change the way they did business? Yes it did. Is that analogous with churches now changing their stance on gays due to public pressure? Yes it is.

you say one thing and want something entirely different. you want the government to mandate societal change regarding acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

that will only get you more opposition. people do not react favorably to being told how they must think and what they must believe.

my advice-------------------shut the fuck up about it and let it happen naturally over time. But I know that is like telling a gator to become a vegetarian.

Why should anyone 'shut the fuck up' about demanding their rights?

The Loving's didn't 'shut the fuck up' - they went to court and won- and the law changed- 20 years before change of public opinion happened 'naturally'.

Demanding the end of mixed race marriage bans did not generate more opposition to mixed race marriage bans- it lead to less opposition to mixed race marriage bans. The same is happening with gay marriage bans- already public opinion has shifted from opposition to support.

When gay couples can conceive a child, I'll change my opinion. Until then, same sex marriage does not equate

So, you are pro making marriage illegal for couple who can't procreate........................ Weird.