What are libertarians?

[gipper]

Wh

Don't you think there should be regulations on how much lead is in paint? How about regulations against cancer causing ingredients in your pharmaceuticals? In your food? How about addictive additives in cigarettes? Shouldn't protection be provided to consumers?

Should government make those things illegal if they don't conform to whatever standard government sets as reasonable? No. Should producers of those things be required to disclose what they know or face civil and potentially criminal liability? Absolutely. An informed consumer is an empowered consumer. A regulated consumer is an empowered politician.

So you're saying that producers would be legally required to publically list every ingredient that is in their products? Why is it that such a better alternative than just setting guidelines? Tell me let's say we did it your way and a drug company discloses every ingredient in their drugs. How is the common consumer going to know which ingredient is cancer causing and which is safe?

I said "disclose what they know," I did not say "list every ingredient." Those are not synonymous.

And why would that be better for the consumer? Do you not see how easily the producer could fool the consumer.

Well, it comes down to whether you believe you can make better choices for yourself or government can make better choices for you. If you have the information to make an informed choice, do you really need a politician to do it for you? Why?

Without regulation or rule of law, producers can easily cause detriment to consumers for the sake of profit. Like it or not there must be a gov agency overseeing the market for the sake of consumer protection. Regulation and capitalism can still go easily hand in hand.

You have this us verses them mentality about the government. You forget how great our system really is. We elect officials that are bound by the same laws we are.

Yes our government regulates the economy, but not to protect the public, but to enrich itself. That is evident by it's actions these past few years....particularly with the TBTF banks, government has only made them bigger and more powerful.

Rule of law and regulations are entirely two different things.

 

[kaz]

Well, it comes down to whether you believe you can make better choices for yourself or government can make better choices for you. If you have the information to make an informed choice, do you really need a politician to do it for you? Why?

Without regulation or rule of law, producers can easily cause detriment to consumers for the sake of profit. Like it or not there must be a gov agency overseeing the market for the sake of consumer protection. Regulation and capitalism can still go easily hand in hand.

You have this us verses them mentality about the government. You forget how great our system really is. We elect officials that are bound by the same laws we are.

And why can't that agency focus on accurate disclosure without removing our choices?

 

[rightwinger]

They still profit from a taxpayer expenditure that helps them at the expense of others

You think that business and their employees should not be allowed to vote for a politician who is supporting a road from which they will profit from?

So as a business owner, I pay taxes for both my business and individually for both my business and myself at the Federal, State and local level. I pay income taxes, business taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes for my employees and myself, sales taxes and endless fees by government to do business.

What money are you referring to that I'm not paying but I'm profiting from?

The money that will pay for a new highway that will bring tens of thousands of cars past your place of business. You are benefitting from a tax expenditure being paid by others.

 

[gipper]

27454"]Government is how we organize society.

LOL, don't you just love authoritarian leftists? So when I deal with government I am dealing with "society?" What a load of crap. It's government.

Well I suppose in the mind of a leftist, government and society are one and the same...or at least they would like it to be.

 

[rightwinger]

Government is not society, moron, so your post is irrelevant to the subject of the OP.

They are the elected representatives of our society

It is part of being a civilization

No, they are elected to represent us in the government, not in society. Do you really not understand the difference? Maybe I should make it easier for you. Is there anything you do understand? Let's start with that and work up. The body of what you don't understand is just enormous and seemingly has no end.

We the People belong to a society. We have chosen a form of government that allows us to select representatives who will do what is in the best interests of our society.

What part of that is so hard for Randians to understand?

 

[Billy000]

Well, it comes down to whether you believe you can make better choices for yourself or government can make better choices for you. If you have the information to make an informed choice, do you really need a politician to do it for you? Why?

Without regulation or rule of law, producers can easily cause detriment to consumers for the sake of profit. Like it or not there must be a gov agency overseeing the market for the sake of consumer protection. Regulation and capitalism can still go easily hand in hand.

You have this us verses them mentality about the government. You forget how great our system really is. We elect officials that are bound by the same laws we are.

And why can't that agency focus on accurate disclosure without removing our choices?

Again education would be required in such a case. A producer could disclose that sodium nitrate is in their products, but who is going to tell the consumers that it causes cancer? It's easier to ban such a substance.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Gotcha, if I want roads, then you can take my money and spend it for yourself, I'm just selfish. LOL, you're a tool.

Actually, yes. That is the way it works

And that is why a libertarian society is an anarchist society

No matter how it works, I want money I earned, you want money you did not earn. You are the selfish one. Voting doesn't change that. Sorry, Big Guy.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
Oliver Wendell Holmes

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As a member of a society, you get a say in how that society is run. Some of the things decided by that society you will agree with. others you will not

Libertarians believe that society does not apply to them

Government is not society, moron, so your post is irrelevant to the subject of the OP.

Yes...he commonly confuses the two terms.

I wonder if lefties think society and government are one an the same. That might explain their many delusions.

Government is how we organize society.

And that has worked out so well.

From a start up nation to the most powerful superpower on earth in 225 years? Looks like it has probably exceeded the wildest expectations of the Founding Fathers.

 

[rightwinger]

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Gotcha, if I want roads, then you can take my money and spend it for yourself, I'm just selfish. LOL, you're a tool.

Actually, yes. That is the way it works

And that is why a libertarian society is an anarchist society

No matter how it works, I want money I earned, you want money you did not earn. You are the selfish one. Voting doesn't change that. Sorry, Big Guy.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
Oliver Wendell Holmes

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As a member of a society, you get a say in how that society is run. Some of the things decided by that society you will agree with. others you will not

Libertarians believe that society does not apply to them

Government is not society, moron, so your post is irrelevant to the subject of the OP.

Yes...he commonly confuses the two terms.

I wonder if lefties think society and government are one an the same. That might explain their many delusions.

Government is how we organize society.

And that has worked out so well.

From a start up nation to the most powerful superpower on earth in 225 years? Looks like it has probably exceeded the wildest expectations of the Founding Fathers.

Could you imagine if we tried to do that with libertarian values?

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

They still profit from a taxpayer expenditure that helps them at the expense of others

You think that business and their employees should not be allowed to vote for a politician who is supporting a road from which they will profit from?

So as a business owner, I pay taxes for both my business and individually for both my business and myself at the Federal, State and local level. I pay income taxes, business taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes for my employees and myself, sales taxes and endless fees by government to do business.

What money are you referring to that I'm not paying but I'm profiting from?

The money that will pay for a new highway that will bring tens of thousands of cars past your place of business. You are benefitting from a tax expenditure being paid by others.

So all those taxes we pay for each gallon of gas does not give us the right to get roads where we need them??

I mean I as a consumer pay taxes on every gallon of gas I use, where does that money go??

 

[Borillar]

If libertarians were both socially and fiscally conservative and serious about small government they would have joined the Tea Party movement which is a realistic approach to their goals. 3rd party politics is doomed to failure and everyone knows it. There may be hard core libertarians left but the main libertarian movement has been hijacked by pot heads and dirty tricks lefties who want to syphon votes from the republican party.

While they may be fiscally conservative, most Libertarians part ways with the religious right and social conservatives. They are also less likely to support military adventurism than most right wingers.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

If libertarians were both socially and fiscally conservative and serious about small government they would have joined the Tea Party movement which is a realistic approach to their goals. 3rd party politics is doomed to failure and everyone knows it. There may be hard core libertarians left but the main libertarian movement has been hijacked by pot heads and dirty tricks lefties who want to syphon votes from the republican party.

While they may be fiscally conservative, most Libertarians part ways with the religious right and social conservatives. They are also less likely to support military adventurism than most right wingers.

Without religion where will your social compass of morals and right and wrong come from??

 

[konradv]

If libertarians were both socially and fiscally conservative and serious about small government they would have joined the Tea Party movement which is a realistic approach to their goals. 3rd party politics is doomed to failure and everyone knows it. There may be hard core libertarians left but the main libertarian movement has been hijacked by pot heads and dirty tricks lefties who want to syphon votes from the republican party.

While they may be fiscally conservative, most Libertarians part ways with the religious right and social conservatives. They are also less likely to support military adventurism than most right wingers.

Without religion where will your social compass of morals and right and wrong come from??

Same place as religious ones, by social consensus.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

If libertarians were both socially and fiscally conservative and serious about small government they would have joined the Tea Party movement which is a realistic approach to their goals. 3rd party politics is doomed to failure and everyone knows it. There may be hard core libertarians left but the main libertarian movement has been hijacked by pot heads and dirty tricks lefties who want to syphon votes from the republican party.

While they may be fiscally conservative, most Libertarians part ways with the religious right and social conservatives. They are also less likely to support military adventurism than most right wingers.

Without religion where will your social compass of morals and right and wrong come from??

Same place as religious ones, by social consensus.

Really don't have much of a clue do you??
Let me know how that works out for you ......... when the perverts decide it will be children having sex !!

 

[rightwinger]

They still profit from a taxpayer expenditure that helps them at the expense of others

You think that business and their employees should not be allowed to vote for a politician who is supporting a road from which they will profit from?

So as a business owner, I pay taxes for both my business and individually for both my business and myself at the Federal, State and local level. I pay income taxes, business taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes for my employees and myself, sales taxes and endless fees by government to do business.

What money are you referring to that I'm not paying but I'm profiting from?

The money that will pay for a new highway that will bring tens of thousands of cars past your place of business. You are benefitting from a tax expenditure being paid by others.

So all those taxes we pay for each gallon of gas does not give us the right to get roads where we need them??

I mean I as a consumer pay taxes on every gallon of gas I use, where does that money go??

You are moving the goal posts

We are talking whether someone should be allowed to vote for tax dollars that they benefit from

 

[Borillar]

If libertarians were both socially and fiscally conservative and serious about small government they would have joined the Tea Party movement which is a realistic approach to their goals. 3rd party politics is doomed to failure and everyone knows it. There may be hard core libertarians left but the main libertarian movement has been hijacked by pot heads and dirty tricks lefties who want to syphon votes from the republican party.

While they may be fiscally conservative, most Libertarians part ways with the religious right and social conservatives. They are also less likely to support military adventurism than most right wingers.

Without religion where will your social compass of morals and right and wrong come from??

In a nutshell, it boils down to no initiation of force or fraud - the principle of non-aggression.

 

[bripat9643]

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Gotcha, if I want roads, then you can take my money and spend it for yourself, I'm just selfish. LOL, you're a tool.

Actually, yes. That is the way it works

And that is why a libertarian society is an anarchist society

No matter how it works, I want money I earned, you want money you did not earn. You are the selfish one. Voting doesn't change that. Sorry, Big Guy.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
Oliver Wendell Holmes

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As a member of a society, you get a say in how that society is run. Some of the things decided by that society you will agree with. others you will not

Libertarians believe that society does not apply to them

Government is not society, moron, so your post is irrelevant to the subject of the OP.

Yes...he commonly confuses the two terms.

I wonder if lefties think society and government are one an the same. That might explain their many delusions.

Government is how we organize society.

And that has worked out so well.

From a start up nation to the most powerful superpower on earth in 225 years? Looks like it has probably exceeded the wildest expectations of the Founding Fathers.

Could you imagine if we tried to do that with libertarian values?

We did, moron.

 

[bripat9643]

Government is not society, moron, so your post is irrelevant to the subject of the OP.

They are the elected representatives of our society

It is part of being a civilization

No, they are elected to represent us in the government, not in society. Do you really not understand the difference? Maybe I should make it easier for you. Is there anything you do understand? Let's start with that and work up. The body of what you don't understand is just enormous and seemingly has no end.

We the People belong to a society. We have chosen a form of government that allows us to select representatives who will do what is in the best interests of our society.

What part of that is so hard for Randians to understand?

The part I don't understand is where I agreed to it.

 

[Pogo]

Libertarians are right-wing hippies.

So we're Republicans who smoke pot. Actually, I haven't smoked pot in over 30 years, so why am I still a libertarian?

And that's the only difference you know between us and Republicans? Pot? You do know almost nothing about everything.

Now how did you pull "pot" out of "hippies"?

Ah -- no true blanket generalinonsequitur time.

Weird thread. I staunchly resist other people putting labels on me -- here you are literally asking for it. Plus, your title asks for what "libertarians" are, but then your poll asks what YOU are. No true nonsequitorial blanket goalpost moving time.

 

[konradv]

We did, moron.

Who is "we"? Please enlighten us as to a single libertarian state in the history of the world. Take your time.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

In a nutshell, it boils down to no initiation of force or fraud - the principle of non-aggression.

Wow, look at all the double talk Bull Shit!!

No initiation ...... can't start
Force or fraud ............. are these two diametrically opposed?? I mean why not force of peace?? Wait it does not fit into a rational stance ..............

-the principle of non-aggression .................... that is called peace!!

So you strung a bunch of Bull Shit together and act as if you are proud of your handiwork!!

I bet you were incessant calling your parents to look at the turds in the bowl .................