What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[Londoner]

We flew Georgian troops that were supporting us in the middle east back on US C-17s, dumbfuck.

We were right in the middle of Iraq and Afghanistan thus Russia had us by the balls with the NDN. I doubt you even know what the NDN is.

Russia's invasion of Georgia is tiny compared to this one. Russia hasn't shown they are going to stop in Crimea. They believe they own Ukraine.

The POINT is that Bush didn't make comments and do actions that gave Putin the idea he is allowed to invade his neighbors like Obama did since day 1 in the White House.

Russian troops marched into Georgia in 2008. Bush did nothing. Talk Radio didn't report on the event. Republicans did not complain about the absence of a US response. Worse: they didn't even know it happened. For this reason it's hard to take their current complaints seriously.

Since the end of WWII the US has never directly attacked Russians or any major world powers, only their far removed proxies. This is why Reagan sent troops into benign places like Grenada and rolled over their semi-retarded army in 15 minutes.

Obama has not given Putin the impression he can or can't do anything. You're merely regurgitating the tired garbage that the Left's lack of global military leadership creates a power vacuum to be filled by evil people like Hussein and Putin.

Problem is, once Reagan got caught selling weapons to Iran (the world's leading terrorist nation), we finally saw the rat's nest of corruption behind Reagan's tough talk. And then, when Bush made a complete mess of Iraq, it became impossible to deny the fact that your party was completely full of shit on matters of national security. I'm not saying Obama is any better, but none of this changes the fact that no US President has ever attacked Russia in their own back yard. And Russia knows this just as the US knew that Russia wouldn't oppose its annexation of Iraq's oil fields.

 

[skye]

The Putin/Russian scumbags here need to explain why foreign observers and media have been blocked in Crimea from seeing what is going on....I thought this was a "humanitarian mission."

Doesn't Putin want to win the Noble Peace Prize showing off his "humanitarian mission?"

It is more like ethnic cleansing...

Oh my oh my oh my do you really think a man like Vladimir Putin is interested in a Nobel Peace Prize? He isn't a Democrat.

Oh my! I can't stop giving you reps!!!!



EDIT good reps that is!

 

[The Rabbi]

You tell me dear heart .

Why are you spending money and trust me I am going kamikaze up here on this. WHY freaking WHY are we giving them money so they can join the EU?

They overthrew a duly elected president so they could join the EU correct.

A coup.

Ok thats freaking special. Ok. Our governments are rocking with it. Ok Get your rocks of Kerry and Baird.

They wanted to join the EU. Swell you uber right wing crazies that overthrew a duly elected president over.

But why do we as taxpayers have to pay for their decision .

LET THE EU PAY FOR HER NEW PAL.

Not sure how you landed in left field on this topic. But you're way off base.
Russia sent unmarked troops wearing uniforms on to Ukrainian territory. Uniformed troops have now surrounded Ukrainian military installations and are making threats. If that isn't an invasion, I am not sure what is.
The Ukrainians had enough of their president, who was going against the vote of a referendum specifically to arrange closer ties with the EU. He was knuckling under to Putin, who wanted closer ties, against the will of the Ukrainian people. And the president was no democrat either, jailing his predecessor on a trumped up charge.

I hate to tell you this but you've been fed a pant load on a steaming hot plate.

This President was duly elected and yes there were monitors in place that actually were amazed how well this election went in 2010.

Don't hand me this shit that this was a move by "all of Ukraine". This coup was led by a small minority in western Ukraine.

This referendum you speak of? Never happened. How's that for you? What had been agreed to in mid February with the EU helping this was a new set of elections to let the people decide.

Oh and btw, the Russians had really offered a sweet deal to the Ukraine a far better one economically than the EU.

No one was knuckling under to anything.

Now on to the Crimea. Putin invaded nothing. Under a treaty from 1997 Russia has been allowed to keep up to 25,000 troops at their naval base. Currently there are 16,000.

This treaty was extended to 2042.

This port in Crimea is home to Russia's Black Sea Fleet. This is no different than your bases in Okinawa or Qatar.

And Russia has a right to protect them.

OK, here's a link that shows your opinion comes from outer space. No need to post further. You are irrelevant to the discussion now.
EUobserver / Dodgy elections harm EU-Ukraine ties

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, we're 7 pages in and I have yet to see a link to any statement by Obama or his administratio as to what U.S. goals in the Ukraine are. I am not asking what they ought to be. Or what you think they are. I am asking a factual question as to what our stated goals are.

 

[ScienceRocks]

OK, we're 7 pages in and I have yet to see a link to any statement by Obama or his administratio as to what U.S. goals in the Ukraine are. I am not asking what they ought to be. Or what you think they are. I am asking a factual question as to what our stated goals are.

Depends if it is within our national interest. Things may evolve to become within our interest based on what Putin does to Europe or rather he sticks us with sanctions(bank freezes, asset freezes, ect)

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, we're 7 pages in and I have yet to see a link to any statement by Obama or his administratio as to what U.S. goals in the Ukraine are. I am not asking what they ought to be. Or what you think they are. I am asking a factual question as to what our stated goals are.

Depends if it is within our national interest. Things may evolve to become within our interest based on what Putin does to Europe or rather he sticks us with sanctions(bank freezes, asset freezes, ect)

You understand that's not a response to my question, right?

 

[eagle1462010]

1. Crimea is the key player in this whole thing.
2. Russia already has a Black Sea Naval Base there.
3. Under agreement Russia already had 15,000 military personnel there before this began.
4. This is in Russia's back yard.
5. Leaders are threatening sanctions and not allowing Russia into the next G-8 summit.
6. Russia has threatened to cut off the oil pipe lines to Europe if they go to sanctions.
This could cripple the EU, and at the same time cut off a major source of Revenue to
Russia.
7. Roughly 70% of Crimea supports being a Russian State.

Just a few points to ponder.

Has Russia used it's muscles to trap Ukraine's troops, yes.........Have they really threatened to destroy them.......Not really...............

It all come's down to keeping the Peace and not allowing a new Cold War to happen. Not allowing Russia to take over the Ukraine.........It is about possibly taking back Crimea............

Hard to decide on Crimea. If the people there don't want to be part of the Ukraine, then this is a Catch 22 issue, and Russia fully knows this.

 

[The Rabbi]

You understand that's not a response, right?

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,



1. We as a Nation need to stop meddling in other nations affairs.
2. Stupid Obama can't even spell respect.
3. Now what portion of America voted for this clown?
4. We are in some really deep shit as long as this clowns in office.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[georgephillip]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

This Administration's goals regarding the Russians and Ukraine are no different from past and future administrations when it comes to expanding US/EU/NATO influence over Russian borderlands, which is exactly what the word "Ukraine" means.

The US intends to ring Russia with missile bases while turning the world's bankers loose on the pensions and public assets of the Ukrainian people.

Any Ukrainians who object to seeing their monthly pensions halved to repay the debts of their oligarchs can file complaints with the Neo-Nazi snipers who brought the current coalition government to power last month.

 

[Vox]

OK, we're 7 pages in and I have yet to see a link to any statement by Obama or his administratio as to what U.S. goals in the Ukraine are. I am not asking what they ought to be. Or what you think they are. I am asking a factual question as to what our stated goals are.

I suppose you missed post # 82. Obama has an OBLIGATION as the President of the country-guarantor in the Budapest agreement.
As does the UK.
And Russiia ( laughignly as all the treaties signed by russia are not worth the paper they are signed on - Bismark)

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I haven't heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

US are the guarantors of Ukrainian territorial integrity and soveriegnity in exchange for the non-nuclear status( Budapest agreement of 1994).
Ukraine can return it's nuclear status in less than 6 months, BTW, if the guarantors do not fulfill their parts. Without much fanfare about it.

 

[Vox]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

This Administration's goals regarding the Russians and Ukraine are no different from past and future administrations when it comes to expanding US/EU/NATO influence over Russian borderlands, which is exactly what the word Ukraine means.

The US intends to ring Russia with missile bases while turning the world's bankers loose on the pensions and public assets of the Ukrainian people.

Any Ukrainians who object to seeing their monthly pensions halved to repay the debts of their oligarchs can file complaints with the Neo-Nazi snipers who brought the current coalition government to power last month.

Not true. Part of the nazi russian propaganda, though.

 

[georgephillip]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

This Administration's goals regarding the Russians and Ukraine are no different from past and future administrations when it comes to expanding US/EU/NATO influence over Russian borderlands, which is exactly what the word Ukraine means.

The US intends to ring Russia with missile bases while turning the world's bankers loose on the pensions and public assets of the Ukrainian people.

Any Ukrainians who object to seeing their monthly pensions halved to repay the debts of their oligarchs can file complaints with the Neo-Nazi snipers who brought the current coalition government to power last month.

Not true. Part of the nazi russian propaganda, though.

Got any proof?

"The International Republican Institute (IRI), for example, polled Ukrainians last September: 'If Ukraine was able to enter only one international economic union, with whom should it be?'

"Forty-two percent of respondents chose the EU, while 37% preferred the Russian Customs Union.

"IRI then asked, 'How would you evaluate your attitude towards the following entities?'

"Fifty percent of respondents felt 'warm' towards Russia; 41% felt 'warm' towards Europe—and just 26% were fond of the U.S.

"IRI figures resembled those USAID published in a December 2013 report. Its authors found it 'interesting to note that Ukrainians are split on whether the country should join the European Union or the Customs Union. Thirty-seven percent would like Ukraine to take steps to join the European Union, 33% prefer the Customs Union and 15% say Ukraine should join neither of these blocs.'

"Furthermore, '34% say that Ukraine should have closer economic relations with Russia, 35% say it should have closer economic relations with Europe and 17% say it should have good relations with both.”

Ukrainian Democracy: A Barrier to Washington?s Goals » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[eagle1462010]

I would suggest that Ukraine avoid becoming part of the EU...............and maintain it's own country and currency.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, we're 7 pages in and I have yet to see a link to any statement by Obama or his administratio as to what U.S. goals in the Ukraine are. I am not asking what they ought to be. Or what you think they are. I am asking a factual question as to what our stated goals are.

I suppose you missed post # 82. Obama has an OBLIGATION as the President of the country-guarantor in the Budapest agreement.
As does the UK.
And Russiia ( laughignly as all the treaties signed by russia are not worth the paper they are signed on - Bismark)

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I haven't heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

US are the guarantors of Ukrainian territorial integrity and soveriegnity in exchange for the non-nuclear status( Budapest agreement of 1994).
Ukraine can return it's nuclear status in less than 6 months, BTW, if the guarantors do not fulfill their parts. Without much fanfare about it.

I didnt see this.
But it does not answer my question. What are the administration's "stated" goals in their dealings with Russia. Not what are we or they obligated to. Not, what should they be. What are the stated goals here.

 

[Contumacious]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

Goals:

1- Allow the war profiteers to rake in gazillions probably bazillions of dollars

2- speed up the process of collapsing the US economy

3- create more pretexts for TSA to harass Americans at the Airports

4- allow the warmongers to come in their pants when they see more caskets coming in to Dover AFB

.

 

[mamooth]

But it does not answer my question.

You need to demonstrate it's a sensible question. You haven't. I doubt you can.

First, you've got that double standard problem, in that you've never asked such questions of any other administration. You'll need to explain that.

Second, you've got that ignorance of international affairs thing going on. Nations keep things vague deliberately. If they get specific, they back themselves into a corner and lose room to negotiate.

 

[Katzndogz]

Didn't John Kerry answer that. The goal is to get Ukraine to combat climate change.

We are governed by cucumbers.

 

[The Rabbi]

But it does not answer my question.

You need to demonstrate it's a sensible question. You haven't. I doubt you can.

First, you've got that double standard problem, in that you've never asked such questions of any other administration. You'll need to explain that.

Second, you've got that ignorance of international affairs thing going on. Nations keep things vague deliberately. If they get specific, they back themselves into a corner and lose room to negotiate.

It is not a sensible question to ask what the administration's stated goals are in this conflict? I dont think there can be a more sensible question.
If you can't answer, which you obviously can't, then don't bother cluttering the thread with irrelevant insults..

 

[Infidel]

Stated goals are: look in control while being a pantywaist. Let Putin spank us. Give Crimea to Russia.