What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[Art__Allm]

The Ukrainians had enough of their president, who was going against the vote of a referendum specifically to arrange closer ties with the EU. He was knuckling under to Putin, who wanted closer ties, against the will of the Ukrainian people. And the president was no democrat either, jailing his predecessor on a trumped up charge.

Well, the terrorists who usurped power in Kiev are not Ukrainians, because they were not elected by Ukrainians.

And the population of the Crimean Peninsula was never asked if they wanted to become part of the new born Ukrainian state.

Crimean Peninsula was till 1954 part of Russian Federation, but Khrushchev (who was a Ukrainian) decided that it would be better if the Crimean Peninsula became part of the Soviet Ukraine (which was not a state then).

The population of the Crimean Peninsula was never asked about this change in their status, because the USSR was de facto Russia, and Russian language was the official language of this state.

After the collapse of the SU the language became an issue in the former Soviet Ukraine, the West-Ukrainians tried to force upon them their own language, which was never the native language of the population of the Crimean Peninsula.

But the Russians in the Crimea still accepted their second-class status in the Ukraine till Ukraine was a democratic state.

After the terrorists eliminated the elected government in Kiev, the Ukraine virtually died.

There is no Ukraine any more, because it is not represented by the elected government any more.

And it is understandable that the population of the Crimean Peninsula does not want to be represented by terrorists, so they took the opportunity and decided to vote about their future status.


Why should anybody forbid these people to decide about their own future?

The results of the vote is predictable, and that is the reason why the West cannot accept any vote in the Ukraine.

The approaching referendum in Crimea will restore historical justice and reunite the peninsula with Russia, Crimean Parliament Speaker Volodymyr Konstantinov said.

"We were given away as a gift in 1954 for unclear reasons, as a sack of potatoes, in disregard of rights of Crimean residents," Konstantinov told reporters in Moscow on Friday.

People took Crimea's transfer easier 50 years ago because it was not transferred to a different country, he said.

"It came to no good, the gift turned into something given," Konstantinov stressed. In the words of the Crimean parliament speaker, the "separatist" label was unfairly stuck to the autonomous republic in Ukraine.

"We were labeled as "separatists" no matter what we said. Although we were doing everything to preserve the country and warned that [the Kyiv events] would end up badly," Konstantinov said.

Crimean residents can restore historical justice and decide "where to live and with whom" at the referendum, he said.
...
"Another request - do not give us away as a gift again," the Crimean Supreme Council speaker said.

Voice of Russia, Interfax

Crimean Supreme Council speaker asks Russia not to give Crimea away as gift again - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

 

[Vox]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I haven't heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

US are the guarantors of Ukrainian territorial integrity and soveriegnity in exchange for the non-nuclear status( Budapest agreement of 1994).
Ukraine can return it's nuclear status in less than 6 months, BTW, if the guarantors do not fulfill their parts. Without much fanfare about it.

 

[Vox]

The Ukrainians had enough of their president, who was going against the vote of a referendum specifically to arrange closer ties with the EU. He was knuckling under to Putin, who wanted closer ties, against the will of the Ukrainian people. And the president was no democrat either, jailing his predecessor on a trumped up charge.

Well, the terrorists who usurped power in Kiev are not Ukrainians, because they were not elected by Ukrainians.

LOL

a russian troll - there have been many lately all over the net.

you should post the direct putin's propganda from his presidential portal. although the russian sources you are using do not differ much - Goebbels has good followers.

 

[1776]

idiot...the ethnic Russians were not under attack in Ukraine, thus your entire bullshit about Putin having a legit reason to invade is bogus. It doesn't matter how many Russian speaking people live in Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, etc....Russia does not have the legal right to invade them under bogus claims....especially using Russian military troops hiding their Russian military insignia and wearing masks.

Oh, let's move on to the Russians targeting "non-ethnic Russians" in Crimea right now....that is also criminal acts all in the name of taking back what Putin believes is his, uh bullshit.

The Ukrainians had enough of their president, who was going against the vote of a referendum specifically to arrange closer ties with the EU. He was knuckling under to Putin, who wanted closer ties, against the will of the Ukrainian people. And the president was no democrat either, jailing his predecessor on a trumped up charge.

Well, the terrorists who usurped power in Kiev are not Ukrainians, because they were not elected by Ukrainians.

And the population of the Crimean Peninsula was never asked if they wanted to become part of the new born Ukrainian state.

Crimean Peninsula was till 1954 part of Russian Federation, but Khrushchev (who was a Ukrainian) decided that it would be better if the Crimean Peninsula became part of the Soviet Ukraine (which was not a state then).

The population of the Crimean Peninsula was never asked about this change in their status, because the USSR was de facto Russia, and Russian language was the official language of this state.

After the collapse of the SU the language became an issue in the former Soviet Ukraine, the West-Ukrainians tried to force upon them their own language, which was never the native language of the population of the Crimean Peninsula.

But the Russians in the Crimea still accepted their second-class status in the Ukraine till Ukraine was a democratic state.

After the terrorists eliminated the elected government in Kiev, the Ukraine virtually died.

There is no Ukraine any more, because it is not represented by the elected government any more.

And it is understandable that the population of the Crimean Peninsula does not want to be represented by terrorists, so they took the opportunity and decided to vote about their future status.


Why should anybody forbid these people to decide about their own future?

The results of the vote is predictable, and that is the reason why the West cannot accept any vote in the Ukraine.

The approaching referendum in Crimea will restore historical justice and reunite the peninsula with Russia, Crimean Parliament Speaker Volodymyr Konstantinov said.

"We were given away as a gift in 1954 for unclear reasons, as a sack of potatoes, in disregard of rights of Crimean residents," Konstantinov told reporters in Moscow on Friday.

People took Crimea's transfer easier 50 years ago because it was not transferred to a different country, he said.

"It came to no good, the gift turned into something given," Konstantinov stressed. In the words of the Crimean parliament speaker, the "separatist" label was unfairly stuck to the autonomous republic in Ukraine.

"We were labeled as "separatists" no matter what we said. Although we were doing everything to preserve the country and warned that [the Kyiv events] would end up badly," Konstantinov said.

Crimean residents can restore historical justice and decide "where to live and with whom" at the referendum, he said.
...
"Another request - do not give us away as a gift again," the Crimean Supreme Council speaker said.

Voice of Russia, Interfax

Crimean Supreme Council speaker asks Russia not to give Crimea away as gift again - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

 

[Art__Allm]

Voters in Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea ...

Well, Russians are the native population of the Crimean Peninsula, and this peninsula was part of the Russian Federation till 1954.

From the point of view of the population of the Crimean Peninsula, they were occupied by Ukraine since 1954, though this occupation was not a problem in the SU, it only became a problem after the collapse of the SU.

On 16th March the population of Crimea will be allowed to decide about their future status in a free referendum.

What is wrong about it?

Why should they remain part of the Ukraine, if they do not want?

Would you be happy if Americans still remained subjects of the British Crown?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Voters in Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea ...

Well, Russians are the native population of the Crimean Peninsula, and this peninsula was part of the Russian Federation till 1954.

From the point of view of the population of the Crimean Peninsula, they were occupied by Ukraine since 1954, though this occupation was not a problem in the SU, it only became a problem after the collapse of the SU.

On 16th March the population of Crimea will be allowed to decide about their future status in a free referendum.

What is wrong about it?

Why should they remain part of the Ukraine, if they do not want?

Would you be happy if Americans still remained subjects of the British Crown?

why leave the choice out

speaking on Americans and the British crown

by the end of the war

there were more Americans fighting for the Brits

then Americans fighting for independence

 

[Vox]

Voters in Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea ...

Well, Russians are the native population of the Crimean Peninsula, and this peninsula was part of the Russian Federation till 1954.

No, thery ARE NOT. The only NATIVES are Crimean Tatars.

Russians have no more rights to Crimea than Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews, Germans and all others living on the peninsula.

The ONLY ones which have the REAL rights to it are Crimean Tatars.

 

[1776]

Dumbfuck....the vote is not legal.

It would be if Maine was full of ex-Canucks and Canada invaded Maine then held an election to see if Maine wanted to become part of Canada.

The Russian military threatened the politicians to hold this vote.....kinda hard to not have one.

Strange that Russia sent in their military when the Russians living in Crimea could've just moved back to Russia...I believe Russia is a bit bigger than Ukraine for land purposes...

Voters in Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea ...

Well, Russians are the native population of the Crimean Peninsula, and this peninsula was part of the Russian Federation till 1954.

From the point of view of the population of the Crimean Peninsula, they were occupied by Ukraine since 1954, though this occupation was not a problem in the SU, it only became a problem after the collapse of the SU.

On 16th March the population of Crimea will be allowed to decide about their future status in a free referendum.

What is wrong about it?

Why should they remain part of the Ukraine, if they do not want?

Would you be happy if Americans still remained subjects of the British Crown?

 

[Vox]

idiot...the ethnic Russians were not under attack in Ukraine, thus your entire bullshit about Putin having a legit reason to invade is bogus. It doesn't matter how many Russian speaking people live in Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, etc....Russia does not have the legal right to invade them under bogus claims....especially using Russian military troops hiding their Russian military insignia and wearing masks.

Oh, let's move on to the Russians targeting "non-ethnic Russians" in Crimea right now....that is also criminal acts all in the name of taking back what Putin believes is his, uh bullshit.

you are speaking to putler's propaganda troll which have multiplicated exponentially all over the web and are citing the newest version of the Goebbels propaganda - russian edition.

 

[1776]

Yes, it would not be shocking if some here are KGB promoting their lies on western websites. Putin is blocking any outside media in Crimea and in Russia spreading lies that the ethnic Russians were being targeted by "Nazis."

When a Russian calls someone a Nazi, they get a boner to attack them. The irony is Russians are as bad as the Nazis...

idiot...the ethnic Russians were not under attack in Ukraine, thus your entire bullshit about Putin having a legit reason to invade is bogus. It doesn't matter how many Russian speaking people live in Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, etc....Russia does not have the legal right to invade them under bogus claims....especially using Russian military troops hiding their Russian military insignia and wearing masks.

Oh, let's move on to the Russians targeting "non-ethnic Russians" in Crimea right now....that is also criminal acts all in the name of taking back what Putin believes is his, uh bullshit.

you are speaking to putler's propaganda troll which have multiplicated exponentially all over the web and are citing the newest version of the Goebbels propaganda - russian edition.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Dumbfuck....the vote is not legal.

It would be if Maine was full of ex-Canucks and Canada invaded Maine then held an election to see if Maine wanted to become part of Canada.

The Russian military threatened the politicians to hold this vote.....kinda hard to not have one.

Strange that Russia sent in their military when the Russians living in Crimea could've just moved back to Russia...I believe Russia is a bit bigger than Ukraine for land purposes...

Voters in Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea ...

Well, Russians are the native population of the Crimean Peninsula, and this peninsula was part of the Russian Federation till 1954.

From the point of view of the population of the Crimean Peninsula, they were occupied by Ukraine since 1954, though this occupation was not a problem in the SU, it only became a problem after the collapse of the SU.

On 16th March the population of Crimea will be allowed to decide about their future status in a free referendum.

What is wrong about it?

Why should they remain part of the Ukraine, if they do not want?

Would you be happy if Americans still remained subjects of the British Crown?

that is a yes now or yes later vote only

 

[1776]

The Putin/Russian scumbags here need to explain why foreign observers and media have been blocked in Crimea from seeing what is going on....I thought this was a "humanitarian mission."

Doesn't Putin want to win the Noble Peace Prize showing off his "humanitarian mission?"

It is more like ethnic cleansing...

 

[Vox]

Yes, it would not be shocking if some here are KGB promoting their lies on western websites. Putin is blocking any outside media in Crimea and in Russia spreading lies that the ethnic Russians were being targeted by "Nazis."

When a Russian calls someone a Nazi, they get a boner to attack them. The irony is Russians are as bad as the Nazis...

Actually they are WORSE - if one looks at the methods and the body count of the victims.

But the currnet methods of anschluss are the carbon copy of 1938 and the false victimization of Germans in Chechoslovakia.

But the activity of putler's war dogs all over the internet during the latest days is actually the integral part of the XXI century fascists plan. As it was with the original ones as well.
Even the Olympics are on the display.

 

[Vox]

The Putin/Russian scumbags here need to explain why foreign observers and media have been blocked in Crimea from seeing what is going on....I thought this was a "humanitarian mission."

Doesn't Putin want to win the Noble Peace Prize showing off his "humanitarian mission?"

It is more like ethnic cleansing...

they would not explain anything. Their role is pure propganda of the XXI century Nazi regime and it's goals.
There is no free press in Putler's Russia.

As there were none in Nazi Germany.

Foreign observers would simly confirm the bogus claims Putler is making in defence of his Crimean anschluss - as are foreign journalists - therefore the former can not be let in and the latter have to be brutally assaulted and threatened.

 

[1776]

Putin is blocking outsiders, denying his military is in Crimea, etc....because he intends on doing crimes against humanity there to anyone that opposes him.

Yet...we have dumbfucks here showing us the % of Ukraine as Russian speakers, bragging about bogus elections, etc.

During the Olympics the people in Crimea didn't have military checkpoints ruining their lives....now they do thanks to Russia.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Putin/Russian scumbags here need to explain why foreign observers and media have been blocked in Crimea from seeing what is going on....I thought this was a "humanitarian mission."

Doesn't Putin want to win the Noble Peace Prize showing off his "humanitarian mission?"

It is more like ethnic cleansing...

Oh my oh my oh my do you really think a man like Vladimir Putin is interested in a Nobel Peace Prize? He isn't a Democrat.

 

[Katzndogz]

We don't have a free press in this country either. It's so bas even leftists are complaining.

 

[Londoner]

Russian troops marched into Georgia in 2008. Bush did nothing. Talk Radio didn't report on the event. Republicans did not complain about the absence of a US response. Worse: they didn't even know it happened. For this reason it's hard to take their current complaints seriously.

 

[Redfish]

Russian troops marched into Georgia in 2008. Bush did nothing. Talk Radio didn't report on the event. Republicans did not complain about the absence of a US response. Worse: they didn't even know it happened. For this reason it's hard to take their current complaints seriously.

nothing you said is true except that Bush did nothing, and he was right to do nothing. Its none of our fricken business.

 

[1776]

We flew Georgian troops that were supporting us in the middle east back on US C-17s, dumbfuck.

We were right in the middle of Iraq and Afghanistan thus Russia had us by the balls with the NDN. I doubt you even know what the NDN is.

Russia's invasion of Georgia is tiny compared to this one. Russia hasn't shown they are going to stop in Crimea. They believe they own Ukraine.

The POINT is that Bush didn't make comments and do actions that gave Putin the idea he is allowed to invade his neighbors like Obama did since day 1 in the White House.

Russian troops marched into Georgia in 2008. Bush did nothing. Talk Radio didn't report on the event. Republicans did not complain about the absence of a US response. Worse: they didn't even know it happened. For this reason it's hard to take their current complaints seriously.