CDZ What are you worth?

[Boss]

I'm not really concerned with what you believe. I guess you completely missed the part where I said that the resets end. I guess thats what happens when you get emotional, dont read the entire post and start calling people names out of frustration in the CDZ.

I'm not calling you names out of frustration, I just think you're living in a fantasy world if you think people would work to gain wealth so that it could be taken from them. And yeah, you said it would end in 100 years but your non-productive society will collapse before 100 years. It wouldn't be much different than China under the policies of Chairman Mao.

People inherently don't want their property taken from them and wealth is property. You're simply not offering any evidence from a sociological standpoint to refute that. It's just you and your opinion rooted in fantasy. I realize this is CDZ but my god man, try to have some intellectual honesty. We can't debate dreams and wishes.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not really concerned with what you believe. I guess you completely missed the part where I said that the resets end. I guess thats what happens when you get emotional, dont read the entire post and start calling people names out of frustration in the CDZ.

I'm not calling you names out of frustration, I just think you're living in a fantasy world if you think people would work to gain wealth so that it could be taken from them. And yeah, you said it would end in 100 years but your non-productive society will collapse before 100 years. It wouldn't be much different than China under the policies of Chairman Mao.

People inherently don't want their property taken from them and wealth is property. You're simply not offering any evidence from a sociological standpoint to refute that. It's just you and your opinion rooted in fantasy. I realize this is CDZ but my god man, try to have some intellectual honesty. We can't debate dreams and wishes.

I never said that. Your reading comprehension obviously missed the fact that I said they would do it to learn the skill better in preparation for that final reset. I dont believe you have a clue regarding what you are talking about. China was never anything like your make believe world.

BS. Plenty of societies shared wealth and land. Long before whites came there was no concept of a single person owning a parcel of land. Once again you show your shortcomings in your knowledge of human behavior.

 

[The Great Goose]

20 cents.

 

[Boss]

I'm not really concerned with what you believe. I guess you completely missed the part where I said that the resets end. I guess thats what happens when you get emotional, dont read the entire post and start calling people names out of frustration in the CDZ.

I'm not calling you names out of frustration, I just think you're living in a fantasy world if you think people would work to gain wealth so that it could be taken from them. And yeah, you said it would end in 100 years but your non-productive society will collapse before 100 years. It wouldn't be much different than China under the policies of Chairman Mao.

People inherently don't want their property taken from them and wealth is property. You're simply not offering any evidence from a sociological standpoint to refute that. It's just you and your opinion rooted in fantasy. I realize this is CDZ but my god man, try to have some intellectual honesty. We can't debate dreams and wishes.

I never said that. Your reading comprehension obviously missed the fact that I said they would do it to learn the skill better in preparation for that final reset. I dont believe you have a clue regarding what you are talking about. China was never anything like your make believe world.

BS. Plenty of societies shared wealth and land. Long before whites came there was no concept of a single person owning a parcel of land. Once again you show your shortcomings in your knowledge of human behavior.

I said they would do it to learn the skill better in preparation for that final reset.

In a hundred years?

No one will ever be motivated to earn wealth they cannot keep. Most will not be motivated to earn wealth they cannot enjoy. I'm sorry, I just think you're going to have a problem with this system and you obviously don't, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.

China was never anything like your make believe world.

I know exactly what China was like. Mao killed 70 million people. His policies plunged China into economic darkness for 40 years. There is still a negative stigma attached to the term "Made in China!" Anyone who has ever studied history know this unless you've swallowed Marxist propaganda.

Plenty of societies shared wealth and land. Long before whites came there was no concept of a single person owning a parcel of land.

Indeed... before America, there was no concept of private ownership of property. This is one of the things that makes us exceptional and the greatest nation to ever exist on this planet. It was a radically liberal idea but it's an idea that worked brilliantly. Socialism and Marxism are failed ideas that end up in economic disaster, usually with tens of millions of dead people in it's wake.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Indeed... before America, there was no concept of private ownership of property.

Later Developments By the early days of Greece and Rome, community common land, state or sovereign land, and private land all had strong traditions behind them. Plato and Aristotle both discussed various mixtures of private and state ownership in ideal societies, with Aristotle upholding the value of private ownership as a means of protecting diversity



Bossy, wrong again. Try Google dude. Learn something.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not really concerned with what you believe. I guess you completely missed the part where I said that the resets end. I guess thats what happens when you get emotional, dont read the entire post and start calling people names out of frustration in the CDZ.

I'm not calling you names out of frustration, I just think you're living in a fantasy world if you think people would work to gain wealth so that it could be taken from them. And yeah, you said it would end in 100 years but your non-productive society will collapse before 100 years. It wouldn't be much different than China under the policies of Chairman Mao.

People inherently don't want their property taken from them and wealth is property. You're simply not offering any evidence from a sociological standpoint to refute that. It's just you and your opinion rooted in fantasy. I realize this is CDZ but my god man, try to have some intellectual honesty. We can't debate dreams and wishes.

I never said that. Your reading comprehension obviously missed the fact that I said they would do it to learn the skill better in preparation for that final reset. I dont believe you have a clue regarding what you are talking about. China was never anything like your make believe world.

BS. Plenty of societies shared wealth and land. Long before whites came there was no concept of a single person owning a parcel of land. Once again you show your shortcomings in your knowledge of human behavior.

I said they would do it to learn the skill better in preparation for that final reset.

In a hundred years?

No one will ever be motivated to earn wealth they cannot keep. Most will not be motivated to earn wealth they cannot enjoy. I'm sorry, I just think you're going to have a problem with this system and you obviously don't, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.

China was never anything like your make believe world.

I know exactly what China was like. Mao killed 70 million people. His policies plunged China into economic darkness for 40 years. There is still a negative stigma attached to the term "Made in China!" Anyone who has ever studied history know this unless you've swallowed Marxist propaganda.

Plenty of societies shared wealth and land. Long before whites came there was no concept of a single person owning a parcel of land.

Indeed... before America, there was no concept of private ownership of property. This is one of the things that makes us exceptional and the greatest nation to ever exist on this planet. It was a radically liberal idea but it's an idea that worked brilliantly. Socialism and Marxism are failed ideas that end up in economic disaster, usually with tens of millions of dead people in it's wake.

Youre projecting your own lack of motivation. Dont assume everyone is like you.

Evidently you dont know what China was like. Please provide evidence China limited its citizens to the equivalent of $700 a week.


I didnt say America silly. I said whites. No it didnt work brilliantly now we have poor without hope where as in more intelligent societies everyone was taken care of. Being blinded by greed is not a good thing. Billions of people have died over the concept of private land ownership. Case in point. Look at what whites did the Native Americans while stealing their community owned land to give to speculators to sale off to private owners.

 

[saveliberty]

It is not a social science test, it is a socialism test. No passing grade for you Boss.

 

[MrShangles]

I think I would be a drug dealer, someone has to do it, with the new wall going up at the border with Mexico, there will be plenty of opportunities for drug dealers on this side of the wall


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Boss]

Indeed... before America, there was no concept of private ownership of property.

Later Developments By the early days of Greece and Rome, community common land, state or sovereign land, and private land all had strong traditions behind them. Plato and Aristotle both discussed various mixtures of private and state ownership in ideal societies, with Aristotle upholding the value of private ownership as a means of protecting diversity

Bossy, wrong again. Try Google dude. Learn something.

*SIGH* ...It existed as a philosophical idea ...it wasn't practiced as an economic model. Yes, people thought about it and talked about it... maybe even tried it to varying degrees at one time or another. Our nation was the first to use it as a fundamental cornerstone to our republic and protect it with a constitution and assert it was an inalienable right endowed by our Creator.

 

[Boss]

...it didnt work brilliantly now we have poor without hope where as in more intelligent societies everyone was taken care of...

Yes it did work. This is where you're wrong about things. We have "poor without hope" because of people like you constantly telling them they can't succeed... they're victims... it's all the white man's fault... there is nothing they can do! But there are countless stories of people who were born into abject poverty and through their own efforts and initiatives, became successful. Read the story of Madame C. J. Walker... Her parents and older siblings were slaves... she was the first child in her family born into freedom. She ultimately became the first self-made female millionaire in America and one of the wealthiest African Americans. How did she do it? By using the free market capitalist system and her own initiative and motivation to succeed. She did not depend on government to take care of her. Oprah Winfrey is another example... born dirt-poor in a tarpaper shack in Mississippi... abused as a child. She was determined to make something of herself and she did. It wasn't a government check... it was her own efforts and determination. She's the wealthiest woman in America now. Other examples include Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver. The list goes on and on... I could fill a page full of people who threw off the shackles and embraced their freedom and the system of free market capitalism with a constitution and liberty endowed by their Creator.

You want to bring up the Native Americans but it was the Democratic Party who oppressed them, justified running them off their lands, justified government taking their property in exchange for "taking care of them!" The travesty was us forsaking our principles not adhering to them.

There is no society where everyone is taken care of. That's a Utopian fantasy. People have to work and produce or there is no wealth created to take care of anyone. It seems like you think wealth just rains down from the sky and the rich people have their golden buckets to catch it all before the little people can get their share... that's not the case. Wealth is created through productivity, talents, skills, initiative of the individual. It doesn't come from a Magic Government Money Fairy! The government does nothing to create wealth... all of it's resources come from the productivity of individuals.

 

[320 Years of History]

The government does nothing to create wealth...

I was right with you until you wrote the sentence above. For example (but not limited to):

• The federal government sets macroeconomic policy, the money supply being one example, and that in turn defines a "landscape" that makes it easier for innovators and opportunists to bring their skills to bear and thereby create wealth.
• Legislatures can and have enacted codes that protect intellectual capital that by being protected allow the owners of it to exploit it and create wealth for themselves.
• Governments undertake public works projects, and when they do, they pay contractors and government employees to perform the work, thereby creating wealth for the individuals whom they pay.

One cannot say governments do nothing to create wealth. They can catalyze wealth creation and/or directly make it be.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Indeed... before America, there was no concept of private ownership of property.

It existed as a philosophical idea ...it wasn't practiced as an economic model. Yes, people thought about it and talked about it... maybe even tried it to varying degrees at one time or anothe

No concept eh? But it existed as a "philosophical idea"? Well ok then. LMAO.

 

[Boss]

The government does nothing to create wealth...

I was right with you until you wrote the sentence above. For example (but not limited to):

• The federal government sets macroeconomic policy, the money supply being one example, and that in turn defines a "landscape" that makes it easier for innovators and opportunists to bring their skills to bear and thereby create wealth.
• Legislatures can and have enacted codes that protect intellectual capital that by being protected allow the owners of it to exploit it and create wealth for themselves.
• Governments undertake public works projects, and when they do, they pay contractors and government employees to perform the work, thereby creating wealth for the individuals whom they pay.

One cannot say governments do nothing to create wealth. They can catalyze wealth creation and/or directly make it be.

No no, you're taking what I said out of context. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently? The government doesn't produce a product or service for profit. The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth. True, the government can institute policies to make wealth creation happen. However, this is often in direct conflict with free market capitalism.

The context of the discussion I was having was with regard to the government "taking care of" folks. They have no source of income other than tax revenues and regulatory fees or fines. All of their money comes from individuals who produce the wealth... or from borrowing it... or from printing fiat currency which has become a popular thing of late. They have no means of "taking care of" folks.... WE take care of folks and whenever the number of people producing wealth becomes lower than the number being taken care of, we have a serious problem.

 

[Boss]

No concept eh? But it existed as a "philosophical idea"? Well ok then. LMAO.

Yes, I guess that's what I get for assuming people can comprehend without having every little detail explained to them like they are in kindergarten. When I said there was no concept, I meant in practicality, not philosophically. There are very few things that haven't been a philosophical concept... most of them never become practical concepts.

 

[320 Years of History]

The government does nothing to create wealth...

I was right with you until you wrote the sentence above. For example (but not limited to):

• The federal government sets macroeconomic policy, the money supply being one example, and that in turn defines a "landscape" that makes it easier for innovators and opportunists to bring their skills to bear and thereby create wealth.
• Legislatures can and have enacted codes that protect intellectual capital that by being protected allow the owners of it to exploit it and create wealth for themselves.
• Governments undertake public works projects, and when they do, they pay contractors and government employees to perform the work, thereby creating wealth for the individuals whom they pay.

One cannot say governments do nothing to create wealth. They can catalyze wealth creation and/or directly make it be.

No no, you're taking what I said out of context. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently? The government doesn't produce a product or service for profit. The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth. True, the government can institute policies to make wealth creation happen. However, this is often in direct conflict with free market capitalism.

The context of the discussion I was having was with regard to the government "taking care of" folks. They have no source of income other than tax revenues and regulatory fees or fines. All of their money comes from individuals who produce the wealth... or from borrowing it... or from printing fiat currency which has become a popular thing of late. They have no means of "taking care of" folks.... WE take care of folks and whenever the number of people producing wealth becomes lower than the number being taken care of, we have a serious problem.

TY for the clarification.

 

[rightwinger]

The government does nothing to create wealth...

I was right with you until you wrote the sentence above. For example (but not limited to):

• The federal government sets macroeconomic policy, the money supply being one example, and that in turn defines a "landscape" that makes it easier for innovators and opportunists to bring their skills to bear and thereby create wealth.
• Legislatures can and have enacted codes that protect intellectual capital that by being protected allow the owners of it to exploit it and create wealth for themselves.
• Governments undertake public works projects, and when they do, they pay contractors and government employees to perform the work, thereby creating wealth for the individuals whom they pay.

One cannot say governments do nothing to create wealth. They can catalyze wealth creation and/or directly make it be.

No no, you're taking what I said out of context. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently? The government doesn't produce a product or service for profit. The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth. True, the government can institute policies to make wealth creation happen. However, this is often in direct conflict with free market capitalism.

The context of the discussion I was having was with regard to the government "taking care of" folks. They have no source of income other than tax revenues and regulatory fees or fines. All of their money comes from individuals who produce the wealth... or from borrowing it... or from printing fiat currency which has become a popular thing of late. They have no means of "taking care of" folks.... WE take care of folks and whenever the number of people producing wealth becomes lower than the number being taken care of, we have a serious problem.

The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth


The government does many things that generate wealth

Building a harbor in a formerly inaccessible area generates tremendous wealth and opens that area to shipping

Building a dam generates electrical power and irrigation to formerly desolate areas and brings in wealth and investment to those areas

Roads and bridges allow business to bring in supplies at low cost and provides a means to bring products and services to market

 

[Boss]

TY for the clarification.

You're welcome. To expound further on the point... How often does government institute initiatives to create wealth in direct conflict with free market capitalism? In other words, how many times are politicians influenced by lobbyists and special interests, big corporations and crony corporatists who line their pockets with campaign contributions, to lever and advantage for them over their competitors?

One of the BIG problems we have is government interfering with the free market system this way. Picking the winners and losers. Mandating regulations that destroy the small business and help the corporate conglomerate. I think this has gotten WAY out of hand and it's a severe problem in America.

In one of his last interviews, Steve Jobs said that he could have never made his fortune if he had to do it today. There are too many more regulations and mandates which he could have never overcome to build the company he ultimately built. When you think about that you realize that a LOT of this has happened in the past 30~40 years.

What we have to do is get off this idea that government is the solution... that government can fix our problems. We have to get government out of the way of free market capitalism and allow individual liberty to prevail as it always has. More and more mandates and regulations are killing free market capitalists. The corporatists are exempted because they have the money to influence policy... they continue to benefit at the expense of the individual entrepreneur who is helpless in influencing policy.

 

[Boss]

The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth


The government does many things that generate wealth

Building a harbor in a formerly inaccessible area generates tremendous wealth and opens that area to shipping

Building a dam generates electrical power and irrigation to formerly desolate areas and brings in wealth and investment to those areas

Roads and bridges allow business to bring in supplies at low cost and provides a means to bring products and services to market

No... The things you mention create wealth for others. Usually, corporatists who have influenced the politicians. The government might realize a benefit from taxation of the wealth generated but the government is not operating for profit.

 

[rightwinger]

The government doesn't do anything to generate wealth


The government does many things that generate wealth

Building a harbor in a formerly inaccessible area generates tremendous wealth and opens that area to shipping

Building a dam generates electrical power and irrigation to formerly desolate areas and brings in wealth and investment to those areas

Roads and bridges allow business to bring in supplies at low cost and provides a means to bring products and services to market

No... The things you mention create wealth for others. Usually, corporatists who have influenced the politicians. The government might realize a benefit from taxation of the wealth generated but the government is not operating for profit.

No, those things contribute to the overall wealth of a nation
As does education

Great economic engines are fed by a strong government supporting it

As an example, lets look at the Mulholland water aqueduct which provided water to the Los Angeles basin. Without that water, Los Angeles would have supported 20,000 people

How much wealth was generated from that Government project?

You can't say the Government does not generate wealth

 

[Boss]

No, those things contribute to the overall wealth of a nation

Nothing contributes a damn thing to the wealth of a nation that isn't through individual productivity. Someone has to earn wealth through their talents, skills, expertise, wisdom or labor. It doesn't magically materialize. I already said that government can CONTRIBUTE to the individual creation of wealth, that's NOT what is being debated, and you can keep on trying to FORCE that to be the debate, I will not participate in nonsense.