What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?

[NYcarbineer]

Thank you, too, for lowering the level of discussion by several orders of magnitude.

What did 19th century conservatives support or oppose that 21st conservatives don't support or oppose?

Other than the 19th century conservative generally not being interested in foreign entanglements and being the world's policeman (although some would argue that is what a true conservative today opposes)?

Ok... so if that is the 'only' difference that you see, as you so imply...

Show that, on the whole, today's conservatives support:
-Chattle slavery
-Disenfranchisement of women
-Disnfranchisement of minoriies, especially blacks.

Be sure to cite your sources.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.

Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.

Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

 

[Dr.Drock]

What did 19th century conservatives support or oppose that 21st conservatives don't support or oppose?

Other than the 19th century conservative generally not being interested in foreign entanglements and being the world's policeman (although some would argue that is what a true conservative today opposes)?

Which is confusing as to why democrats support Obama being the world's chief of police and getting into as many foreign entanglements as humanly possible.



I'll give you personally credit as you disagree with Obama's warmongering side, but that's not what I see from most democrats. They now have the same kill them and let god sort them out view that republicans had under Bush.

It's a 2 party system and until that changes one can either support the better choice, or the less evil choice,

or engage in the futile exercise of voting for someone else.

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What did 19th century conservatives support or oppose that 21st conservatives don't support or oppose?

Other than the 19th century conservative generally not being interested in foreign entanglements and being the world's policeman (although some would argue that is what a true conservative today opposes)?

Ok... so if that is the 'only' difference that you see, as you so imply...

Show that, on the whole, today's conservatives support:
-Chattle slavery
-Disenfranchisement of women
-Disnfranchisement of minoriies, especially blacks.

Be sure to cite your sources.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.
Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.
Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

I'm sorry - I missed the cited illustration of how today's conservatives, on the whole, support slavery and the disenfranchosement of women and blacks, as per your implication.

Are you going to provide that illustration or not?

If not, are you going to set aside your partisan bigotry long enough to admit that today's conservatives do not support those things and that your implication to that effect is wrong?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Ok... so if that is the 'only' difference that you see, as you so imply...

Show that, on the whole, today's conservatives support:
-Chattle slavery
-Disenfranchisement of women
-Disnfranchisement of minoriies, especially blacks.

Be sure to cite your sources.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.
Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.
Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

I'm sorry - I missed the cited illustration of how today's conservatives, on the whole, support slavery and the disenfranchosement of women and blacks, as per your implication.

Are you going to provide that illustration or not?

If not, are you going to set aside your partisan bigotry long enough to admit that today's conservatives do not support those things and that your implication to that effect is wrong?

19th century conservatives and 21st century conservatives have the same belief in either keeping things as they are or rolling back the clock.

The fact that 19th century conservatives lost most of the ideological battles they fought back then only proves that in the long run,

liberalism/progressivism prevails.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Connecting morality with a gov't that's killed hundreds of thousands of people in the last decade, yikes.

That's not what I'm connecting. Are you purposeful in your misinterpretations or just truly ignorant of my point?

I want to help old/poor and cannot do it all by myself.

Helping old/poor is the moral high road but it doesn't make me any better or worse than you.

It's not that difficult a concept, why are you having such a hard time with it?

We both want to help the old/poor, we just have different ideas on how to do that.

That's not good enough for you.

Yes, that's right. I believe that we need our government involved and you don't.

I will try to make my opinion the majority opinion and sway policy, as will you.

 

[Full-Auto]

That's not what I'm connecting. Are you purposeful in your misinterpretations or just truly ignorant of my point?

I want to help old/poor and cannot do it all by myself.

Helping old/poor is the moral high road but it doesn't make me any better or worse than you.

It's not that difficult a concept, why are you having such a hard time with it?

We both want to help the old/poor, we just have different ideas on how to do that.

That's not good enough for you.

Yes, that's right. I believe that we need our government involved and you don't.

I will try to make my opinion the majority opinion and sway policy, as will you.

How much more involvement can we afford?


Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Which is confusing as to why democrats support Obama being the world's chief of police and getting into as many foreign entanglements as humanly possible.



I'll give you personally credit as you disagree with Obama's warmongering side, but that's not what I see from most democrats. They now have the same kill them and let god sort them out view that republicans had under Bush.

It's a 2 party system and until that changes one can either support the better choice, or the less evil choice,

or engage in the futile exercise of voting for someone else.

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.
Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.
Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

I'm sorry - I missed the cited illustration of how today's conservatives, on the whole, support slavery and the disenfranchosement of women and blacks, as per your implication.

Are you going to provide that illustration or not?

If not, are you going to set aside your partisan bigotry long enough to admit that today's conservatives do not support those things and that your implication to that effect is wrong?

19th century conservatives and 21st century conservatives have the same belief in either keeping things as they are or rolling back the clock.

The fact that 19th century conservatives lost most of the ideological battles they fought back then only proves that in the long run,

liberalism/progressivism prevails.

As I figured, you clearly will not set aside your partisan bigotry long enough to admit that today's conservatives do not support those things and that your implication to that effect is wrong - you'd rather lie to yourself just to make a meaningless political point

Why do you put such a small price on your intellectual honesty and your credibility as a sentient being?

 

[Dr.Drock]

It's a 2 party system and until that changes one can either support the better choice, or the less evil choice,

or engage in the futile exercise of voting for someone else.

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

As would I, however sadly that'll never happen.

And my own personal conspiracy theory, that everyone can mock away, is even if the american public had a revolutionary change of thinking and actually voted for a 3rd party or indy that stood for real change, the powers that be wouldn't let it happen either through f'ing with the voting process or passing laws to keep the status quo in place or what have you.

There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen.

 

[jillian]

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state

in other words, you don't like that you lost the civil war.

damn feds making you desegregate your schools and all!!!

how dare they?!?!?!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What did 19th century conservatives support or oppose that 21st conservatives don't support or oppose?

Other than the 19th century conservative generally not being interested in foreign entanglements and being the world's policeman (although some would argue that is what a true conservative today opposes)?

Ok... so if that is the 'only' difference that you see, as you so imply...

Show that, on the whole, today's conservatives support:
-Chattle slavery
-Disenfranchisement of women
-Disnfranchisement of minoriies, especially blacks.

Be sure to cite your sources.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.

Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.

Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

All this talk about voter IDs taking away minority rights rantings, and yet I haven't found any cases that support such an view of taking away voting rights. It's interesting that government can pay for those on welfare to receive FREE cell phones and minutes, but they never offer ANY funding to ensure everyone has a photo ID. Which is odd, because don't you need a photo ID for basic necessities like cigaretts and alcohol? Do you not need one to make a reservation in a hotel, or to drive, to do any sort of airline travel, or to enter a government facility? Yet, you mention "voting", then all of a sudden we have supression of minorities. Show me some links, historical facts, that proves it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen."

Are you suggesting we have devolved into a Plutocracy, an Oligarchy run by the wealthy and powerful?

 

[Intense]

What did 19th century conservatives support or oppose that 21st conservatives don't support or oppose?

Other than the 19th century conservative generally not being interested in foreign entanglements and being the world's policeman (although some would argue that is what a true conservative today opposes)?

Ok... so if that is the 'only' difference that you see, as you so imply...

Show that, on the whole, today's conservatives support:
-Chattle slavery
-Disenfranchisement of women
-Disnfranchisement of minoriies, especially blacks.

Be sure to cite your sources.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.

Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.

Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.

Fail.

Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.

Fail.
Key Words, Qualify, Limit. Voluntary alternatives.

Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

Fail. Just trying to establish a credible process and count, you know, 1+1=2. Rooting corruption out of the process. You protest way too much.

Strike 3 Batter, you're out! Next Batter!

 

[Intense]

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state

in other words, you don't like that you lost the civil war.

damn feds making you desegregate your schools and all!!!

how dare they?!?!?!

Brooklyn is getting desegregated next, Jillian.

 

[M14 Shooter]

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state

in other words, you don't like that you lost the civil war.

damn feds making you desegregate your schools and all!!!

how dare they?!?!?!

Hey! Look! It's jillian, my favorite fraud!
Adding her usual meant-to-be-clever-and-snarky-but-does-nothing-but-illustrate-her-inability-to-carry-on-an-intelligent-discusion commentary!
Good to see some things never change.

 

[bripat9643]

Hopefully, compassion is not out of style and I'm a member of the majority. In a democracy (a Democratic Republic anyway), the majority makes the rules.

So... when the majority decides to impose a moral position that offends you - lets say, bans on abortion and gay marriage - you'll simply accept it as the will of the majority and go about your daily life?

Of course not. I will attempt to sway enough people to my position that it becomes the majority, just like you.

Why bother? Doesn't the majority determine what is right and wrong?

 

[M14 Shooter]

So... when the majority decides to impose a moral position that offends you - lets say, bans on abortion and gay marriage - you'll simply accept it as the will of the majority and go about your daily life?

Of course not. I will attempt to sway enough people to my position that it becomes the majority, just like you.

Why bother? Doesn't the majority determine what is right and wrong?

His hypocrisy is clear, as his inability to gather enough honesty to admit it.
No need to pursue the point further.

 

[Dr.Drock]

"There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen."

Are you suggesting we have devolved into a Plutocracy, an Oligarchy run by the wealthy and powerful?

Yes and it's been that way for awhile, and is even more than ever now under Obama and it'll just get worse, swapping reps for dems won't and hasn't done a damn thing.

By wealthy I don't mean millionaires or even people with hundreds of millions, I mean a select few of the strongest billionaires and most especially those who control the money (the Fed) are the ones who control this gov't and this country. There's a reason a select few oil companies always have record profits, and there's a select group of banks chosen for bailouts and select group of companies who get gov't handouts.

 

[Nic_Driver]

So... when the majority decides to impose a moral position that offends you - lets say, bans on abortion and gay marriage - you'll simply accept it as the will of the majority and go about your daily life?

Of course not. I will attempt to sway enough people to my position that it becomes the majority, just like you.

Why bother? Doesn't the majority determine what is right and wrong?

What the majority decides is the direction the country will go on issues of a moral nature, not what is morally correct for me or for you as individuals.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Of course not. I will attempt to sway enough people to my position that it becomes the majority, just like you.

Why bother? Doesn't the majority determine what is right and wrong?

His hypocrisy is clear, as his inability to gather enough honesty to admit it.
No need to pursue the point further.

Other than the side of the issue, you are no different than I and your refusal to admit this is either based on dishonesty or ignorance, take your pick.

Maybe its both...