What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Conservatives support state's rights over a powerful central government.
Conservatives support taking away a woman's right to an abortion.
Conservatives are supporting voting rights changes that are targeting minorities.

I'm sorry - I missed the cited illustration of how today's conservatives, on the whole, support slavery and the disenfranchosement of women and blacks, as per your implication.

Are you going to provide that illustration or not?

If not, are you going to set aside your partisan bigotry long enough to admit that today's conservatives do not support those things and that your implication to that effect is wrong?

19th century conservatives and 21st century conservatives have the same belief in either keeping things as they are or rolling back the clock.

The fact that 19th century conservatives lost most of the ideological battles they fought back then only proves that in the long run,

liberalism/progressivism prevails.

Here is what I found, with respect to where the Democrats and Republicans stood on the issue of slavery:

On July 17, 1862 "The Second Confiscation Act" passed the Republican Congress, with unanimous Democratic opposition, stating that slaves of the Confederacy "shall be forever free".
The Second Confiscation Act July 17, 1862 - NAACPC.org

the record shows that since 1933 Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats.

In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.

Republicans and Civil Rights

U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Historical Minutes > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended

I wish the left would take the time to learn some history when it comes to Civil Rights and Slavery issues.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

As would I, however sadly that'll never happen.

And my own personal conspiracy theory, that everyone can mock away, is even if the american public had a revolutionary change of thinking and actually voted for a 3rd party or indy that stood for real change, the powers that be wouldn't let it happen either through f'ing with the voting process or passing laws to keep the status quo in place or what have you.

There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen.

Unfortunately there's too much money in political elections. That support can come through businesses throwing in money in an election, or unions, or green corporations [like Solyndra] supporting candidates for a financial favor in return. As long as money is there to influence elections, there will always be big government power intervention into the lives of every American.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen."

Are you suggesting we have devolved into a Plutocracy, an Oligarchy run by the wealthy and powerful?

Yes and it's been that way for awhile, and is even more than ever now under Obama and it'll just get worse, swapping reps for dems won't and hasn't done a damn thing.

By wealthy I don't mean millionaires or even people with hundreds of millions, I mean a select few of the strongest billionaires and most especially those who control the money (the Fed) are the ones who control this gov't and this country. There's a reason a select few oil companies always have record profits, and there's a select group of banks chosen for bailouts and select group of companies who get gov't handouts.

Blaming Obama for what has been an on-going issue, money and special interests polluting our democratic institutions is disingenuous and highly partisan. Read my signature lines which clearly define my beliefs on this issue.

 

[Dr.Drock]

"There's too much money at stake for powerful people to let real change happen."

Are you suggesting we have devolved into a Plutocracy, an Oligarchy run by the wealthy and powerful?

Yes and it's been that way for awhile, and is even more than ever now under Obama and it'll just get worse, swapping reps for dems won't and hasn't done a damn thing.

By wealthy I don't mean millionaires or even people with hundreds of millions, I mean a select few of the strongest billionaires and most especially those who control the money (the Fed) are the ones who control this gov't and this country. There's a reason a select few oil companies always have record profits, and there's a select group of banks chosen for bailouts and select group of companies who get gov't handouts.

Blaming Obama for what has been an on-going issue, money and special interests polluting our democratic institutions is disingenuous and highly partisan. Read my signature lines which clearly define my beliefs on this issue.

I didn't blame Obama, I thought that was pretty obvious when i said it's been going on for awhile and having reps or dems in power won't change anything. How that can solely be blaming Obama is a mystery to me. Seems partisan to me to pick out one person out of a comment like that and get defensive about it.

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

That puts you and he on equal footing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yes and it's been that way for awhile, and is even more than ever now under Obama and it'll just get worse, swapping reps for dems won't and hasn't done a damn thing.

By wealthy I don't mean millionaires or even people with hundreds of millions, I mean a select few of the strongest billionaires and most especially those who control the money (the Fed) are the ones who control this gov't and this country. There's a reason a select few oil companies always have record profits, and there's a select group of banks chosen for bailouts and select group of companies who get gov't handouts.

Blaming Obama for what has been an on-going issue, money and special interests polluting our democratic institutions is disingenuous and highly partisan. Read my signature lines which clearly define my beliefs on this issue.

I didn't blame Obama, I thought that was pretty obvious when i said it's been going on for awhile and having reps or dems in power won't change anything. How that can solely be blaming Obama is a mystery to me. Seems partisan to me to pick out one person out of a comment like that and get defensive about it.

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

"... and is even more than ever now under Obama ..." Mea culpa it appears I focused on this phrase and not the entirety of your post. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's a 2 party system and until that changes one can either support the better choice, or the less evil choice,

or engage in the futile exercise of voting for someone else.

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

And what you would 'like to see' is what defines you as a modern American conservative. It is the conservatism and vision of the Founders that has nothing at all to do with dictionary definitions, how the Left would characterize it, or whether a person has an R or D after their name.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

That puts you and he on equal footing.

What part of FU didn't you understand. Being snarky and a jerk will always push my button; I spent years not responding to your kind for to do so in my career was both unprofessional and career threatening. Now, I don't need to tolerate fools, punks and smart asses.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Blaming Obama for what has been an on-going issue, money and special interests polluting our democratic institutions is disingenuous and highly partisan. Read my signature lines which clearly define my beliefs on this issue.

I didn't blame Obama, I thought that was pretty obvious when i said it's been going on for awhile and having reps or dems in power won't change anything. How that can solely be blaming Obama is a mystery to me. Seems partisan to me to pick out one person out of a comment like that and get defensive about it.

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

"... and is even more than ever now under Obama ..." Mea culpa it appears I focused on this phrase and not the entirety of your post. Thanks for the clarification.

The grip the most powerful ppl have on society and most especially money/resources gets tighter every year, that's why it's more than ever now under Obama, it'd be the same if McCain were elected and it'll just keep getting worse.

Obama is just a puppet for their interests, just like Bush was.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You'll have to let me know which party I'm partisan for, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

That puts you and he on equal footing.

What part of FU didn't you understand.

The part where you explained how such a reponse indicates anything other than the pre-pubescent nature of the person responding with it.

You can't handle debating as an intellectually honest adult. We get that.
Further petulant outbursts such as yours only server to further self-sodomize your credibility as a sentient being.

 

[kaz]

I got mine, screw yours.

With the difference being that conservatives "got" means "earned" and you want "yours" through government confiscation and redistribution. When people redistribute through the force of guns, it's called robbery. When government does it, it's a "program."

 

[Wry Catcher]

Until I see one side reducing debt, balancing budgets, and reducing spending, I'll stick with thinking we don't really have a choice. Flip a coin I couldn't care less which party is in power.

I'm at a point where I vote for someone with no chance just out of my duty as an american, or don't waste the 5 minutes it takes to vote.

I haven't decided yet. Bottom line is we're f'd either way. It's like choosing between diarhea coated spaghetti or a cow pie burger.

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

And what you would 'like to see' is what defines you as a modern American conservative. It is the conservatism and vision of the Founders that has nothing at all to do with dictionary definitions, how the Left would characterize it, or whether a person has an R or D after their name.

And that perspective characterizes you as a (modern is not quite correct) contemporary conservative.

We have no source to understand the exact definition of the words used by the founders, no dictionary - that I'm able to find - exists which may have been used by them and Webster's first edition, American Dictionary of the English Language was published in 1828, decades after the writing of The Constitution.

How "the general welfare" has been defined has generally been at the whim of those with an agenda as have any number of other nuanced explanations/definitions. Even those who write law reviews on such matters have opinions which leak into the scholarly work.

As for those of us who offer our opinions on such matters, they are without much doubt the product of biased reasoning.

 

[Foxfyre]

Both Republicans and Democrats have areas they want some form of Big Government control whether "moral issues" or "government entitlements". The only way to see a reduction in spending, is to see a size reduction of government control over the lives of every American. Personally I'd love to see a Federal Government that relinquishes more control over to the people and allow them to follow in their own individual persuits ,without Federal big brother "make sure everyone is getting their share" intervention. Government has always been the problem, it hasn't been the answer.

And what you would 'like to see' is what defines you as a modern American conservative. It is the conservatism and vision of the Founders that has nothing at all to do with dictionary definitions, how the Left would characterize it, or whether a person has an R or D after their name.

And that perspective characterizes you as a (modern is not quite correct) contemporary conservative.

We have no source to understand the exact definition of the words used by the founders, no dictionary - that I'm able to find - exists which may have been used by them and Webster's first edition, American Dictionary of the English Language was published in 1828, decades after the writing of The Constitution.

How "the general welfare" has been defined has generally been at the whim of those with an agenda as have any number of other nuanced explanations/definitions. Even those who write law reviews on such matters have opinions which leak into the scholarly work.

As for those of us who offer our opinions on such matters, they are without much doubt the product of biased reasoning.

But conservatism as it is demonstrated in the American culture is what it is whether or not those who embrace it would define it as such. Hence the term 'modern' as in other countries conservatism is something else quite different.

As I posted previously, the Founders were not concerned with definitions of 'liberal' or 'conservative' but rather with an ideal, a vision, a concept, a principle that they wrote into the U.S. Constitution as a great and previously untried experiment. It was a concept of people who, with their unalienable rights secured, would be free to govern themselves and form whatever sort of society they wished to have. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams until the people, as people are wont to do from the most ancient of Biblical times, began clamoring for a 'king'. And slowly but surely we have been reverting back to an authoritarian government that assigns us our rights; the authoritarian government the Founders intended to free us from.

Modern American Conservatism rejects the concept of a king and is based on a strong sense of the value of self governance.

Bias in and of itself is not a bad or counterproductive thing. When bias occurs from an informed concept and perspective, it is necessary to produce a successful civilization.

 

[Nic_Driver]

What you're going to have to do however is find a way of dumping basic truism of liberalism; that anything bad that happens to you is never your fault.

Just as ridiculous a statement as ever there was.

 

[Nic_Driver]

The fact is a lot of people in bad spots, wether it be financially, or health wise are in those positions because of bad choices they made.

The fact is that there are a lot of people, who through no fault of their own, need some help.

I do not not owe it to those people to pay for their mistakes.

So you do owe it to them?

 

[Foxfyre]

What you're going to have to do however is find a way of dumping basic truism of liberalism; that anything bad that happens to you is never your fault.

Just as ridiculous a statement as ever there was.

Is it really ridiculous? It is the Left in the USA that blames the corporations, blames the rich, blames income inequity, blames polluters, blames white people, blames history, blames Christianity and/or religion in general, blames George Bush, etc. etc. etc. for societies' ills. The thief would not be a thief if others would redistribute their wealth more equitably. The kid in the inner city would not grow up stupid, angry, and lawless if the rich would just contribute more, through the government, to his welfare. There would be much fewer children in poverty if there was more distribution of condoms and less resistance to abortion on demand, etc. etc. etc.

I imagine a liberal finds little wrong with society that the liberal attributes to his/her own values, outlook, and conscience and that is not blamed on somebody else.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Is it really ridiculous?

Of course it is an you know it. If you want to have an honest debate, you have to start by being honest.

If you just want to sling crap, that's fine too but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

[Nic_Driver]

I imagine

Yes, you do, and you watch too much Fox Noise too.

 

[kaz]

I imagine

Yes, you do, and you watch too much Fox Noise too.

Yes, not just presenting liberal views is "noise." And to you very confusing. It must be stopped. A fair and balanced media is strictly liberal...

 

[initforme]

I guess most conservatives would wonder why I have turned against the new republican party. Being that

1) I am 74 years of age and worked hard my whole life. Never collected a penny of unemployment. Didnt have my wealth handed to me like alot of the very wealthy I got to have cocktails with from time to time.
2) I was a moderately successful worker in the corporate world. I made enough to send my kids to college(the ONLY way to make your way in this world now), paid for my own house, and saved more than enough to retire. (which I so enjoy. Dying at work is the most pathetic thing one could ever do)
3) I am a white male christian
4) I have(had unfortunately) 2 brothers both who served in the army.

My best friends who are all conservative refuse to talk politics with me. They wonder why I now dont see things through their eyes. I tell them to read the bible. Case closed.

In the end it will all come down to do we help each other or do we make america only for those who are highly successful. One group wants it one way, (only the wealthy should decide everything) and the other side wants everything handed to them. I fall somewhere right in the middle. While I dont care for alot of Obamas policies I surely cannot relate to the likes of Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum. They believe I am the scum of the earth. I believe in hard work. I believe in living within your means. I also see how this country is being taken over by those with the most wealth. What is one to do?