What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?

[Foxfyre]

It is approaching 1:30 a.m. in New Mexico; 2:30 a.m. in Iowa and they are now announcing that it looks like Romney edged out Santorum by eight votes out of more than 122,000 votes cast.

If that isn't a testimony for taking whatever measures are necessary to ensure an honest vote, I can't think of a better one. If that had decided an election between a Democrat and a Republican we would be weeks before somebody conceded and then there would always be accusations that somebody cheated.

And I'm going to bed and will be back to do battle for modern American conservatism again tomorrow.

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

 

[Oldstyle]

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

I think it's predictive of how Republicans are looking for a candidate who can beat Barack Obama at the polls next November. Anyone concentrating on divisions in the GOP during this primary campaign runs the risk of misunderstanding that although Republicans do have differences on assorted issues, they are overwhelmingly united in their determination to take back the Oval Office from Obama.

Do you believe all factions of the GOP will get behind the Republican candidate? Or, is a third party a possibility?
If Romney does not get enough to be the candidate before the convention in Tampa, I suspect the Republican Party will have a tumultuous convention. If he does I would not be surprised to see efforts to get a third party candidate on the ballots.

I know that all of you folks on the left are fervently hoping for a third party candidate, Wry but I don't think it's something you should count on. The only one with even close to an organization to try something like that is Ron Paul and he's repeatedly stated that he would not run as a third party because he's well aware that to do so would hand the election to Barack Obama.

You have to remember that this year's primary season is being affected by candidates being able to take a portion of delegates from states...not a winner take all scenario like in the past. That is keeping people in the race that would have otherwise already dropped out. I'm quite confident that Mitt Romney will take New Hampshire rather handily and I'm also quite confident that following South Carolina the field will be cut substantially. Perry staying in helps Romney in South Carolina because those conservative votes would most likely swing to Gingrich.

It's my opinion that barring some major gaffe by Romney that he will emerge as the Republican nominee well before the convention...something which doesn't bode well for Obama because Romney IS the most centrist of the GOP candidates and the one who will appeal to Independents the demographic which Obama desperately needs.

 

[Foxfyre]

It hasn't been all that long ago--okay maye a LONG time ago to some of you young-uns who don't remember it--that the candidate for neither party was almost never determined in the primaries, but was determined at the convention. Many states cast their first delegate votes for a favorite son that wasn't even really running for President but bought them time to see how the field was going to shake out. They were obligated to cast a vote for the candidate who won the primary but only one time. Once that vote was cast, they were free to vote for anybody. Some would pass when it came time to vote hoping to be the state that put somebody over the top.

I can remember sitting with my mom and aunts with homemade scoresheets in our laps writing down the votes and cheering on our favorite candidates. It was great entertainment and great fun to watch. And it generally gave us a far sight better candidates than what we wind up with now with the modern primary process.

 

[Intense]

People who rely on medicare, social security and other federal programs are not pitiful, I suggest you consider how such comments frame your brand of conservativism.

Nor do people who rely on those programs only vote Democrat. I suggest you consider how such assumptions frame your brand of liberalism.

That is likely true; some who rely on SS and Medicare fall prey to the propaganda. Sad but true. My brand of liberalism?

My Brand:

I believe in the Golden Rule;

I am a fiscal conservative, that means I don't spend beyond my means but will borrow when borrowing is cost effective. For example, If necessary I will replace my roof by borrowing to protect the house; not doing so is not being fiscally smart. I'll paint the house to protect it, borrow if necessary, change the oil in our cars, keep the tires inflated and do all the routine stuff needed that is cost effective (note to Tea Party, being cheap is not being fiscally conservative).

I believe in science and do not have faith in ghosts, holy or otherwise.

I don't mind paying taxes to provide social services, see number one first and then consider the consequences of number 2; when one neglects the proper maintenance of other human beings crime, disease and heart ache follow.

I believe in conserving our natural resources, keeping the environment clean and the principle of the Magna Carta, the Rights of Man and the Declaration of Independence. I believe our Constitution is a living document, one which must be read within the real world of the 21st century and in the context of over 200 years of the American experience.

You know that the Magna Carta in part was a reminder to the King that he was not God, and could not act like God. Silly

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am making an allegation that the Republican Party has conspired to disenfranchise voters in the next election.

actually both Democrats and Republicans would be treated equally by the Republican proposals. Probably nothing is more fundamental to the Republican form of government than a process wherein only people who are moderately intelligent and informed are allowed to vote.

Odd isn't it how Democrats want to subvert the system by buying votes with welfare payments.



When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Gadawg73]

It is approaching 1:30 a.m. in New Mexico; 2:30 a.m. in Iowa and they are now announcing that it looks like Romney edged out Santorum by eight votes out of more than 122,000 votes cast.

If that isn't a testimony for taking whatever measures are necessary to ensure an honest vote, I can't think of a better one. If that had decided an election between a Democrat and a Republican we would be weeks before somebody conceded and then there would always be accusations that somebody cheated.

And I'm going to bed and will be back to do battle for modern American conservatism again tomorrow.

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

 

[Foxfyre]

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

I doubt very VERY seriously that 60% of anybody's supporters put abortion as their #1 issue, but you are correct that the Tea Partiers are not concerned with social issues in the candidates they support. They ARE interested in a candidate who appreciates the original intent of the Constitution, who promote shrinking big government, fiscal responsibility and integrity, and returning power to the people. And those in the Tea Party who have put the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on Santorum deem that he is okay on those issues.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is approaching 1:30 a.m. in New Mexico; 2:30 a.m. in Iowa and they are now announcing that it looks like Romney edged out Santorum by eight votes out of more than 122,000 votes cast.

If that isn't a testimony for taking whatever measures are necessary to ensure an honest vote, I can't think of a better one. If that had decided an election between a Democrat and a Republican we would be weeks before somebody conceded and then there would always be accusations that somebody cheated.

And I'm going to bed and will be back to do battle for modern American conservatism again tomorrow.

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

Romney got the same number of votes in the caucus he did last year, is that predicative of who will be running for president in November?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Romney did well, is this predictive of how the tea party will faire in November?

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

The actual numbers say that 58.5% of the people who listed abortion as their number one issue caucused for Santorum, but they were only 14% of the caucus goers, but thanks for proving you tried to pay attention.

 

[Gadawg73]

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

I doubt very VERY seriously that 60% of anybody's supporters put abortion as their #1 issue, but you are correct that the Tea Partiers are not concerned with social issues in the candidates they support. They ARE interested in a candidate who appreciates the original intent of the Constitution, who promote shrinking big government, fiscal responsibility and integrity, and returning power to the people. And those in the Tea Party who have put the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on Santorum deem that he is okay on those issues.

They had Jamie Dupree on this morning from Iowa and the latest polling had Santorum voters stating his position on abortion was the #1 reason they voted for him.
60% of them.
Not my opinion, fact
I agree 100% with the rest of your post and that is why I respect and support the Tea Party.
But those figures for Santorum do not surprise me. He appeals to the fringe right wing and Iowa has no shortage of them.

 

[Gadawg73]

Santorum did equally well which does reflect that the Tea Party--the closest thing we have to an organized 21st Century American Conservative movement--still has some clout. The Tea Party does not march in lockstep and has cast favor among a number of presidential hopefuls. And though Romney has not exactly been a Tea Party darling, he will receive support from a large majority of the Tea Partiers should he win the GOP nomination. Actually any of the GOP hopefuls runnings will receive a lot of Tea Party support as the current resident of the White House is the antithesis of Modern American conservatism.

But again, the unbelievably narrow margin between Santorum and Romney does illustrate why the integrity of the voting system must be maintained and why those voter IDs are necessary to help ensure one person, one vote. Nine fraudulent votes would have been a miniscule fraction of the total votes cast, but would have been sufficient to alter the results of the Iowa Caucus and theoretically could alter the results of any election.

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

The actual numbers say that 58.5% of the people who listed abortion as their number one issue caucused for Santorum, but they were only 14% of the caucus goers, but thanks for proving you tried to pay attention.

What difference does it make what % they were of the total vote?
58.5%, 60% whatever. Proves that they do not pay any attention.
We have 1001 other priorities other than the abortion issue.
No wonder the Republicans are such a dysfunctional party. We have nit wits that want to push their pet social beliefs on everyone else.
Barry Goldwater is rolling in his grave.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

60% of Santorum supporters state abortion is their #1 issue.
T party does not address abortion.

The actual numbers say that 58.5% of the people who listed abortion as their number one issue caucused for Santorum, but they were only 14% of the caucus goers, but thanks for proving you tried to pay attention.

What difference does it make what % they were of the total vote?
58.5%, 60% whatever. Proves that they do not pay any attention.
We have 1001 other priorities other than the abortion issue.
No wonder the Republicans are such a dysfunctional party. We have nit wits that want to push their pet social beliefs on everyone else.
Barry Goldwater is rolling in his grave.

I think the difference between 60% (your number) and 8.2?% (actual number) is pretty significant, but that is just me.

 

[Gadawg73]

The actual numbers say that 58.5% of the people who listed abortion as their number one issue caucused for Santorum, but they were only 14% of the caucus goers, but thanks for proving you tried to pay attention.

What difference does it make what % they were of the total vote?
58.5%, 60% whatever. Proves that they do not pay any attention.
We have 1001 other priorities other than the abortion issue.
No wonder the Republicans are such a dysfunctional party. We have nit wits that want to push their pet social beliefs on everyone else.
Barry Goldwater is rolling in his grave.

I think the difference between 60% (your number) and 8.2?% (actual number) is pretty significant, but that is just me.

You have your figures wrong.
The 14% figure is from ALL of the voters.
58.5 of Santorum voters /all of the voters = 14%.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seems Romney - the RINO liberal - and Santorum - the Social Conservative - were the winners in Iowa. Bachmann is gone, Gingrich may be self destructing and Perry wants to repair his image as he soldiers on proving once again to be the mental midget of the group. Only Ron Paul is left as a serious contender for the nomination.

Romney's far right rhetoric is one more example of his flexibility on issues, flip, flop; Santorum's bigotry will win him the evangelical vote, but promises to cut $5 trillion dollars over five years is absurd and a false promise; Ron Paul is way out there, mainstream voters like his calls for isolationism but most will realize his ideas are not of this century or the last.

All of which begs the question, what do 21st Century conservatives want in their candidate?

 

[Foxfyre]

Supporters of a political candidate might or might not be 21st Century (modern) American conservatives. So who is or is not a serious candidate for the GOP nomination is really irrelevent to this topic.

Modern American conservatives can be as eclectic in their beliefs/wants/opinions as any other group of people. Some will be pro life. Some pro choice. Some pro gay marriage. Some pro traditional marriage. Some pro legalization of drugs. Some anti legalization of drugs. Some devoutly religious. Some agnostic or Atheist. Etc. etc. etc.

The only 'beliefs' they will consistently share is the belief that American exceptionalism is important and worth defending and it is accomplished through the Founders' convictions that the federal government should provide the common defense, promote the general welfare (meaning everybody's welfare and not targeted groups), recognize and secure our unalienable rights, and otherwise leave us alone to govern ourselves and form ourselves into whatever sort of society we wished to have.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Seems Romney - the RINO liberal - and Santorum - the Social Conservative - were the winners in Iowa. Bachmann is gone, Gingrich may be self destructing and Perry wants to repair his image as he soldiers on proving once again to be the mental midget of the group. Only Ron Paul is left as a serious contender for the nomination.

Romney's far right rhetoric is one more example of his flexibility on issues, flip, flop; Santorum's bigotry will win him the evangelical vote, but promises to cut $5 trillion dollars over five years is absurd and a false promise; Ron Paul is way out there, mainstream voters like his calls for isolationism but most will realize his ideas are not of this century or the last.

All of which begs the question, what do 21st Century conservatives want in their candidate?

Romney was for flipflopping before he was against it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Seems Romney - the RINO liberal - and Santorum - the Social Conservative - were the winners in Iowa. Bachmann is gone, Gingrich may be self destructing and Perry wants to repair his image as he soldiers on proving once again to be the mental midget of the group. Only Ron Paul is left as a serious contender for the nomination.

Romney's far right rhetoric is one more example of his flexibility on issues, flip, flop; Santorum's bigotry will win him the evangelical vote, but promises to cut $5 trillion dollars over five years is absurd and a false promise; Ron Paul is way out there, mainstream voters like his calls for isolationism but most will realize his ideas are not of this century or the last.

All of which begs the question, what do 21st Century conservatives want in their candidate?

Romney.
Real people change their minds on many issues all the time.
Real men admit to it.
Real politicians never do.

 

[Foxfyre]

Seems Romney - the RINO liberal - and Santorum - the Social Conservative - were the winners in Iowa. Bachmann is gone, Gingrich may be self destructing and Perry wants to repair his image as he soldiers on proving once again to be the mental midget of the group. Only Ron Paul is left as a serious contender for the nomination.

Romney's far right rhetoric is one more example of his flexibility on issues, flip, flop; Santorum's bigotry will win him the evangelical vote, but promises to cut $5 trillion dollars over five years is absurd and a false promise; Ron Paul is way out there, mainstream voters like his calls for isolationism but most will realize his ideas are not of this century or the last.

All of which begs the question, what do 21st Century conservatives want in their candidate?

Romney.
Real people change their minds on many issues all the time.
Real men admit to it.
Real politicians never do.

Absolutely. Those who spend some time listening to these guys in formats longer than 30-second sound bites or in more depth than 'gotcha' quotations notice that they evolve just as most of us have over the years. I don't hold every conviction now that I held at age 20, 30, 40 etc. When new information comes in, when we become better educated on a subject, we had better be prepared to change or update our position on some things, or else we are doomed to be perpetually wrong. To not allow a person to change his/her mind is to demand that he/she play politics at all times and never tell it like it is.

Qualification: when it is obvious that positions are shifting according to who the person or group is being addressed--much as our politician-in-chief does--then we can be pretty certain they are just blowing smoke. When the convictions remain rooted firmly despite public opinion, we can be pretty sure they are the real deal. But anybody who says he or she has never changed his/her mind about anything I believe is pretty certain to be lying.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

All of which begs the question, what do 21st Century conservatives want in their candidate?

Actually there are only 2 things to want in all of human political history: freedom or government.

Republicans since Jefferson have represented freedom from big liberal government. Whether they say it outright or fudge a little to get independents is merely a matter of democratic tactics and so not your concern at all.

Your concern is developing the wisdom to appreciate Republican freedom as our Founders did.

 

[candycorn]

Rick Santorum placed 2nd in Iowa....I'm guessing humor may be one of the beliefs.