CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[Syriusly]

Pillars and Coyote, I am glad you are both here and participating in the CDZ method. We just disagree on a lot of basic things.

I remember a conversation I had with the daughter of a US History professor who called Russians evil and out to get us. My reply was you think all Russians get up in the morning and plot all day to overthrow the US? I think they get up and worry about school, groceries and work schedules. Much like our US Muslim citizens.

So I will say US Muslims would like us to be more tolerant of them. Problem is we need their help in coming to that conclusion by more effort on their part to see them rejecting terrorism. To actively show it as the religion of peace..

What more should they be doing? Remember- there is no "Pope", no central authority- the various groups of Muslim American affiliations are more like various protestant denominations than anything else.

But from what I have seen- those who are in authority- in the United States and outside the United States have denounced terrorism- but the terrorist don't care.

Why both ISIS and some US right-wingers are threatening to kill this American imam

When Webb turned 20, he converted to Islam. Now 43, he’s emerged as one of the most influential American Muslim voices speaking out against extremism.


That outspokenness recently landed Webb on an ISIS hit list, along with 20 other Muslim leaders from the US, UK, Canada and Australia whom the group accused of “apostasy.”

 

[Syriusly]

In fairness, IF Muslims were attempting Sharia Law or terrorist support, it is very unlikely there would be overt evidence.

If they were attempting Sharia law, there would be plenty of evidence, because laws are a public sort of thing.

You can administer Sharia Law in private.

Well that would depend on your definition of "Sharia Law" then.

Would you care if a devout Muslim decides to live by Sharia law in his private life, so long as it didn't conflict with American law? Or even if two Muslims agree between themselves to use Sharia law as the basis to decide disputes between them?

Frankly I don't- any more than I care about any other religious person following the 'laws' of his faith- kosher is amongst the many religious laws some people follow.

But everyone has to follow American law. Despite what their religious 'law' tells them.

 

[saveliberty]

In fairness, IF Muslims were attempting Sharia Law or terrorist support, it is very unlikely there would be overt evidence.

If they were attempting Sharia law, there would be plenty of evidence, because laws are a public sort of thing.

You can administer Sharia Law in private.

But then it isn't Sharia law- it is just a person breaking the law.

Yes it is, much like arbitration. Sharia Law covers more civil than criminal law.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That's a reach. Ockham's razor would suggest that a simpler explanation is that westernization leads to decreased religiosity, and that's true for Christianity, as well.

Christian disassociation is a more recent phenomena. There is a higher correlation to the spread of liberal thought and attacks on religion.

There is a direct cause and effect of the disassociation from Christianity. And it is common core and an anti Christian pall over our children. Christianity is forbidden. It is assaulted in public schools now. And this has nothing, no thing, to do with separation of church and state.
Religion is alive and well in school. They haven't quit teaching our children how to write. We are teaching them to read and write in Aramaic instead. We have not removed God from school. We have replaced the God that 70% of this country follows, with the God that less than 1% of this country follow. Our children learn the Allah is the one true God now. They wear burkas, and recite pillars, so stop with the "my tax dollars won't pay for religion in school" bullshit, libs. Your tax dollars are paying for a Saudi Arabia curriculum in American classrooms that has Allah written all over it.

 

[Arianrhod]

. A few will give the appearance and temperance of fitting in. A few million tell you where you fit in with their plan for peace and how it is to be achieved.

Yeah- no more than the same kind of crap bigots used to say about the Chinese and the Jews and Catholics and Italians.

Just more bigoted crap- just a different target group.

That's just more crap period. Show me the carnage of the the Italians, Jews, Catholics, and Chinese immigrants upon arriving here.....

Here is the difference. Those immigrants couldn't wait to become Americans, not bombers in America.

God- you do sound just like those bigots.

9/11 was not an act by Muslim immigrants- they were Muslim extremists and terrorists here on tourist and student visas.

Like you- bigots claimed that Italians and Jews and Catholics and Chinese were guilty of all sorts of crimes- because of the actions of a few Italians and Jews and Catholics and Chinese.

Luigi Galleani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the largest mass lynchings in American history was of eleven Italians in New Orleans, Louisiana, in 1891. The city had been the destination for numerous Italian immigrants.[12] Nineteen Italians who were thought to have assassinated police chief David Hennessy were arrested and held in the Parish Prison. Nine were tried, resulting in six acquittals and three mistrials. The next day, a mob stormed the prison and killed eleven men, none of whom had been convicted, and some of whom had not been tried.[13] Afterward, the police arrested hundreds of Italian immigrants, on the false pretext that they were all criminals.

Anti-Chinese propaganda poster

Anti-Irish propaganda cartoon:

 

[Syriusly]

That's a reach. Ockham's razor would suggest that a simpler explanation is that westernization leads to decreased religiosity, and that's true for Christianity, as well.

Christian disassociation is a more recent phenomena. There is a higher correlation to the spread of liberal thought and attacks on religion.

There is a direct cause and effect of the disassociation from Christianity. And it is common core and an anti Christian pall over our children. Christianity is forbidden. It is assaulted in public schools now. And this has nothing, no thing, to do with separation of church and state.
Religion is alive and well in school. They haven't quit teaching our children how to write. We are teaching them to read and write in Aramaic instead. We have not removed God from school. We have replaced the God that 70% of this country follows, with the God that less than 1% of this country follow. Our children learn the Allah is the one true God now. They wear burkas, and recite pillars, so stop with the "my tax dollars won't pay for religion in school" bullshit, libs. Your tax dollars are paying for a Saudi Arabia curriculum in American classrooms that has Allah written all over it.

LOL....I wonder what the hell school your kid goes to?

My kid goes to a San Francisco public school, with a Muslim minority- no burkas, no reciting pillars- religion is respected- including Christianity, Islam and Judaism- but bullying along religious lines is not- so you wouldn't like it much.

Aramaic? Really? LOL

Religion is doing fine in America.

Luckily the assholes who attack all Muslims don't represent Christianity in America.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Let's stick to the topic please - there are other threads that talk about Islam in other parts of the world - this one was framed specifically to talk about the American Muslim population - if you can relate it to American Muslims, then fine - but otherwise lets not derail the thread.

What do Muslims in AMERICA want?
Are they any different than other religious groups in America?
What does this say about Muslim immigration in America vs other countries?

Sorry, you may not like the answers you get, but, to compare Muslim immigration vs other countries you must be allowed to mention immigration in other countries and the effect immigration has had on those countries. Same with, what they want, same with, comparing their religion to other religious groups in America and elsewhere to understand what Muslims in America want and how their religion differs. You seem to want to make a distinction between a Muslim in America and a Muslim some where else. If the answer is, "there is no difference", then pointing out why isn't off topic, even if it isn't what you want to hear.

 

[Katzndogz]

I have lived in primarily muslim neighborhoods for years. I work with all muslims. All of my business associates and most of my friends are muslims.

What I have noted is that the more of them there are the less American they feel themselves to be. The same muslim living among 2% of his fellows will have way different opinions than the same person would if there were 10% muslims. Increase this to 25% or more, you would not recognize the person.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That's a reach. Ockham's razor would suggest that a simpler explanation is that westernization leads to decreased religiosity, and that's true for Christianity, as well.

Christian disassociation is a more recent phenomena. There is a higher correlation to the spread of liberal thought and attacks on religion.

There is a direct cause and effect of the disassociation from Christianity. And it is common core and an anti Christian pall over our children. Christianity is forbidden. It is assaulted in public schools now. And this has nothing, no thing, to do with separation of church and state.
Religion is alive and well in school. They haven't quit teaching our children how to write. We are teaching them to read and write in Aramaic instead. We have not removed God from school. We have replaced the God that 70% of this country follows, with the God that less than 1% of this country follow. Our children learn the Allah is the one true God now. They wear burkas, and recite pillars, so stop with the "my tax dollars won't pay for religion in school" bullshit, libs. Your tax dollars are paying for a Saudi Arabia curriculum in American classrooms that has Allah written all over it.

LOL....I wonder what the hell school your kid goes to?

My kid goes to a San Francisco public school, with a Muslim minority- no burkas, no reciting pillars- religion is respected- including Christianity, Islam and Judaism- but bullying along religious lines is not- so you wouldn't like it much.

Aramaic? Really? LOL

Religion is doing fine in America.

Luckily the assholes who attack all Muslims don't represent Christianity in America.

Really. Under the guise of calligraphy. The pillars under the guise of history, burkas on trips to mosques. All at once, all over the world, not just in America. It is a global, UN organized effort that does not make the distinction between American Muslims and Muslims:

Really.

 

[Syriusly]

That's a reach. Ockham's razor would suggest that a simpler explanation is that westernization leads to decreased religiosity, and that's true for Christianity, as well.

Christian disassociation is a more recent phenomena. There is a higher correlation to the spread of liberal thought and attacks on religion.

There is a direct cause and effect of the disassociation from Christianity. And it is common core and an anti Christian pall over our children. Christianity is forbidden. It is assaulted in public schools now. And this has nothing, no thing, to do with separation of church and state.
Religion is alive and well in school. They haven't quit teaching our children how to write. We are teaching them to read and write in Aramaic instead. We have not removed God from school. We have replaced the God that 70% of this country follows, with the God that less than 1% of this country follow. Our children learn the Allah is the one true God now. They wear burkas, and recite pillars, so stop with the "my tax dollars won't pay for religion in school" bullshit, libs. Your tax dollars are paying for a Saudi Arabia curriculum in American classrooms that has Allah written all over it.

LOL....I wonder what the hell school your kid goes to?

My kid goes to a San Francisco public school, with a Muslim minority- no burkas, no reciting pillars- religion is respected- including Christianity, Islam and Judaism- but bullying along religious lines is not- so you wouldn't like it much.

Aramaic? Really? LOL

Religion is doing fine in America.

Luckily the assholes who attack all Muslims don't represent Christianity in America.

Really. Under the guise of calligraphy. The pillars under the guise of history, burkas on trips to mosques. All at once, all over the world, not just in America. It is a global, UN organized effort that does not make the distinction between American Muslims and Muslims:

Really.

Really- like I said- luckily xxxx who attack all Muslims don't represent Christianity in America.

 

[elektra]

Well that would depend on your definition of "Sharia Law" then.

Would you care if a devout Muslim decides to live by Sharia law in his private life, so long as it didn't conflict with American law? Or even if two Muslims agree between themselves to use Sharia law as the basis to decide disputes between them?
.

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

 

[Arianrhod]

Let's stick to the topic please - there are other threads that talk about Islam in other parts of the world - this one was framed specifically to talk about the American Muslim population - if you can relate it to American Muslims, then fine - but otherwise lets not derail the thread.

What do Muslims in AMERICA want?
Are they any different than other religious groups in America?
What does this say about Muslim immigration in America vs other countries?

Sorry, you may not like the answers you get, but, to compare Muslim immigration vs other countries you must be allowed to mention immigration in other countries and the effect immigration has had on those countries.

Except when the OP specifically limits the discussion to the U.S. Your characterization of the U.S. almost suggests you don't even live here...at least not in the 21st century.

More anti-Irish sentiment from America in the 19th century for comparison:

Would you say this^ is a fair representation of our ancestors?

 

[Arianrhod]

I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

How would you know?

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

Even in the privacy of your own home? So you want the government in your bedroom, your bathroom, your kitchen, listening to your phonecalls, reading your email? Or will your answer be "Not me. I'm not Muslim"?

You also seem to believe the Constitution should supersede your religious beliefs, if any. Or do you only want that applied to Muslims?

 

[elektra]

Even in the privacy of your own home? So you want the government in your bedroom, your bathroom, your kitchen, listening to your phonecalls, reading your email? Or will your answer be "Not me. I'm not Muslim"?

You also seem to believe the Constitution should supersede your religious beliefs, if any. Or do you only want that applied to Muslims?

The question pertained to something specific, practicing Sharia law.

As far as do I want the Government in my bedroom, yes. A bedroom should not be sanctuary for crimes.

Moslems have no right to separate legal protections outside our Constituion

 

[elektra]

I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

How would you know?

It was a question, asked. I answered, if you have no problem with Moslem men living by a law of a foreign land, you have no business being a citizen of the USA

 

[Arianrhod]

It was a question, asked. I answered, if you have no problem with Moslem men living by a law of a foreign land, you have no business being a citizen of the USA

Sharia is not "a law of a foreign land." Let's start there.

 

[Syriusly]

Well that would depend on your definition of "Sharia Law" then.

Would you care if a devout Muslim decides to live by Sharia law in his private life, so long as it didn't conflict with American law? Or even if two Muslims agree between themselves to use Sharia law as the basis to decide disputes between them?
.

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?

 

[Syriusly]

[
As far as do I want the Government in my bedroom, yes. A bedroom should not be sanctuary for crimes.

So you really want the Government monitoring how you have sex- to be sure that you only have sex that is approved by the government?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Once EU starts tumbling into the abyss, they will want that here.....

 

[elektra]

It was a question, asked. I answered, if you have no problem with Moslem men living by a law of a foreign land, you have no business being a citizen of the USA

Sharia is not "a law of a foreign land." Let's start there.

Yes it is