CDZ What do American Muslims want?

Maybe the reason it's so easy for everyone to confuse terrorism with Islam is that Islam is a theocratic faith. So anytime Islamic terrorists who are attempting to lead others start engaging in warfare, we blame it on the religion instead of on the politics and the leaders. Do we blame the North Korean dictator's actions on his religion? No. His religion is not in a 'ruling' position in North Korea.
What I'm trying to say is, it is the leaders and the politics that are causing the terrorism, for the exact same reasons that every group and nation has started wars--wish for resources, power, etc. It is not Islam which drives terrorism, although is is being justified as a 'holy war' by their leaders . As has been pointed out here, if you dig into the Koran, you will find places that justify violence and abhorrent practices, but the Old Testament has plenty of those, as well, if you hunt for them.
You're wrong, it's not just the leader causing terrorism, as leaders never highjack the airplane, blow up their shoes or underwear, or attack Westerners, it's the regular Muslim Joe who does that.
You don't believe those Muslim Joes are acting as soldiers for their leaders who inspired them? I do.
You can't simply order someone to blow themselves up, they really, really have to want to.
Any soldier who goes into war willing to give his/her life is really, really, wanting to give their life for their cause. It's no different regardless. Do you think our military personnel go into a battle knowing it could be the last time? Yes, of course they do.
 
Maybe the reason it's so easy for everyone to confuse terrorism with Islam is that Islam is a theocratic faith. So anytime Islamic terrorists who are attempting to lead others start engaging in warfare, we blame it on the religion instead of on the politics and the leaders. Do we blame the North Korean dictator's actions on his religion? No. His religion is not in a 'ruling' position in North Korea.
What I'm trying to say is, it is the leaders and the politics that are causing the terrorism, for the exact same reasons that every group and nation has started wars--wish for resources, power, etc. It is not Islam which drives terrorism, although is is being justified as a 'holy war' by their leaders . As has been pointed out here, if you dig into the Koran, you will find places that justify violence and abhorrent practices, but the Old Testament has plenty of those, as well, if you hunt for them.
You're wrong, it's not just the leader causing terrorism, as leaders never highjack the airplane, blow up their shoes or underwear, or attack Westerners, it's the regular Muslim Joe who does that.
You don't believe those Muslim Joes are acting as soldiers for their leaders who inspired them? I do.
You can't simply order someone to blow themselves up, they really, really have to want to.
Any soldier who goes into war willing to give his/her life is really, really, wanting to give their life for their cause. It's no different regardless. Do you think our military personnel go into a battle knowing it could be the last time? Yes, of course they do.
Our military personnel don't get ordered to blow themselves up. HUGE difference.
 
Maybe the reason it's so easy for everyone to confuse terrorism with Islam is that Islam is a theocratic faith. So anytime Islamic terrorists who are attempting to lead others start engaging in warfare, we blame it on the religion instead of on the politics and the leaders. Do we blame the North Korean dictator's actions on his religion? No. His religion is not in a 'ruling' position in North Korea.
What I'm trying to say is, it is the leaders and the politics that are causing the terrorism, for the exact same reasons that every group and nation has started wars--wish for resources, power, etc. It is not Islam which drives terrorism, although is is being justified as a 'holy war' by their leaders . As has been pointed out here, if you dig into the Koran, you will find places that justify violence and abhorrent practices, but the Old Testament has plenty of those, as well, if you hunt for them.
You're wrong, it's not just the leader causing terrorism, as leaders never highjack the airplane, blow up their shoes or underwear, or attack Westerners, it's the regular Muslim Joe who does that.
You don't believe those Muslim Joes are acting as soldiers for their leaders who inspired them? I do.
You can't simply order someone to blow themselves up, they really, really have to want to.
Any soldier who goes into war willing to give his/her life is really, really, wanting to give their life for their cause. It's no different regardless. Do you think our military personnel go into a battle knowing it could be the last time? Yes, of course they do.
Our military personnel don't get ordered to blow themselves up. HUGE difference.
Okay, I'll admit there is a difference. I do not believe, however, that the religion is the reason for the tactics they are using. They haven't got missiles and drones, so that is why they are using bombs on their bellies and old Chevy Novas.
 
Maybe the reason it's so easy for everyone to confuse terrorism with Islam is that Islam is a theocratic faith. So anytime Islamic terrorists who are attempting to lead others start engaging in warfare, we blame it on the religion instead of on the politics and the leaders. Do we blame the North Korean dictator's actions on his religion? No. His religion is not in a 'ruling' position in North Korea.
What I'm trying to say is, it is the leaders and the politics that are causing the terrorism, for the exact same reasons that every group and nation has started wars--wish for resources, power, etc. It is not Islam which drives terrorism, although is is being justified as a 'holy war' by their leaders . As has been pointed out here, if you dig into the Koran, you will find places that justify violence and abhorrent practices, but the Old Testament has plenty of those, as well, if you hunt for them.
You're wrong, it's not just the leader causing terrorism, as leaders never highjack the airplane, blow up their shoes or underwear, or attack Westerners, it's the regular Muslim Joe who does that.
You don't believe those Muslim Joes are acting as soldiers for their leaders who inspired them? I do.
You can't simply order someone to blow themselves up, they really, really have to want to.
Any soldier who goes into war willing to give his/her life is really, really, wanting to give their life for their cause. It's no different regardless. Do you think our military personnel go into a battle knowing it could be the last time? Yes, of course they do.

I disagree. Soldiers go into battle and expect to win the war and come home. Dying is a possibility.
That is different than committing suicide. Death is a certainty.
 
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
My statement was pretty clear, was it not?

State a specific civil matter, and we can discuss it.


You're statement was very unclear.

Our exchange started with this, from you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

At which point I brought up kosher laws and you indicated you don't seem to understand exactly what Halakah or for that matter, Sharia is.

Both Sharia and Halakah cover a huge range of rules most of which involve civil affairs. There is also a penal code for major crimes (in both) with a certain penchant for stoning misbehavers. The degree to which a country or individual follows or interprets Sharia varies widely.

Halakah includes kosher dietary laws.
Sharia includes halal dietary laws.

Those are just some of the aspects of Sharia and Halakah. Now, do you have a problem with Jewish men living by Halakah in their private lives?

Should kosher and halal be made illegal? Should their adherents be forced to leave the country?
 
What I find astonishing in this thread, is that a few people turned this into an attack on Americans. ......

Islam and Sharia law seem to have no place on Earth, period..

What I find astonishing is the crap you make up.

There is no 'attack on Americans'- there has been an attack by you and others on Americans who happen to be Muslims and who privately follow religious law.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Most religious law screws women out of equality, you do realize that?

Aside from that there are a couple of factors - one is, that in issues such as property division and child custody, a religious decision can be made but it must be ratified by a secular court which offers some protections. The other thing is - people choose this crap. Adult, independent, free people. We have freedom of religion in this country even if we disagree with that religion's tenants.
 
You made the claim, it is your responsibility to support it with proof. The "proof" you provided is clearly spurious.
I did, she simply dismissed it out of hand for some trivial reason.

I provided multiple sources indicating that your poll was poorly constructed. Perhaps you can find some evidence that the Pew poll I used as a source is similarly flawed?
I saw no pew poll.

It was linked to in post #2 of this thread, and, in an earlier question from you I stated that.
I have no idea what that means, why don't you just repost the link?

Again, here it is: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?
 
I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).


Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.



A few other takeaways from the poll:
  • Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.
  • Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)
Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

  • On wearing a hijab:
About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

  • On assimilation:
A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:
2010-muslim-americans-s0-07.png


When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.
Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Most religious law screws women out of equality, you do realize that?

Aside from that there are a couple of factors - one is, that in issues such as property division and child custody, a religious decision can be made but it must be ratified by a secular court which offers some protections. The other thing is - people choose this crap. Adult, independent, free people. We have freedom of religion in this country even if we disagree with that religion's tenants.
First of all, we're talking about American Muslims, please try to stick to the topic. :D

Secondly, we may have freedom religion, but we don't have freedom of courts. And sharia is in complete opposition to Constitutional courts.
 
I did, she simply dismissed it out of hand for some trivial reason.

I provided multiple sources indicating that your poll was poorly constructed. Perhaps you can find some evidence that the Pew poll I used as a source is similarly flawed?
I saw no pew poll.

It was linked to in post #2 of this thread, and, in an earlier question from you I stated that.
I have no idea what that means, why don't you just repost the link?

Again, here it is: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
I didn't see a relevant poll, is there one there somewhere?
 
[Q? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them..

So far you have made that claim but have been unable to actually show us how the Constitution is based on biblical principles.

Your claim has been that nobody should be allowed to follow 'religious' laws in private in the United States- but when challenged about it- what you really mean is that Muslims should not be allowed to follow religious laws in private- but you are okay with anyone else following any religious laws- just not Muslims.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?
If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Most religious law screws women out of equality, you do realize that?

Aside from that there are a couple of factors - one is, that in issues such as property division and child custody, a religious decision can be made but it must be ratified by a secular court which offers some protections. The other thing is - people choose this crap. Adult, independent, free people. We have freedom of religion in this country even if we disagree with that religion's tenants.
First of all, we're talking about American Muslims, please try to stick to the topic. :D

Secondly, we may have freedom religion, but we don't have freedom of courts. And sharia is in complete opposition to Constitutional courts.

First of all- you are jumping into another conversation where a poster said that persons should not be allowed to follow religious law in private in the United States- which prompted our challenges regarding other religious laws that are practiced in the United States. We can discuss the topic anyway we wish to do so in a polite CDZ fashion.

Secondly, persons do have the right to have private contractual arrangements- and even give up their rights to go to civil courts. Don't believe me- ever sign an agreement to submit to binding arbitration rather than go to court? Jews can consensually agree to abide by Jewish law in contracts with each other, Muslims can agree to abide by Sharia law in contracts with each other. But those contracts cannot violate U.S. law.

I absolutely agree that no one can impose religious law on other Americans. Nor do I actually agree with any religious laws, but I do recognize the rights of Christians and Jews and Muslims to practice their religion as they see fit so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?
If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.
 
You said Sharia is the law of a foreign land- and haven't proven anything.

You then ignore the fact that Americans choose to follow many other laws in addition to the Constitution- including Kosher dietary laws, and Biblical laws.

Claiming once that the Constitution was based upon Biblical law- now upon English Common law- which makes whatever point you thought you were making about the Constitution rather moot.

Americans following kosher law- okay or not okay?
How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.
Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?
Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?
If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Do Jewish women who agree to be governed by halakah suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome?
 
I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).


Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.



A few other takeaways from the poll:
  • Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.
  • Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)
Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

  • On wearing a hijab:
About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

  • On assimilation:
A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:
2010-muslim-americans-s0-07.png


When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.
Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?
 
Sharia is not "a law of a foreign land." Let's start there.
Again, you made the claim, care to prove your claim is fact?

The term "a law of a foreign land" was first stated in your post (actually you posted "a law, of a foreign land"). You have repeatedly been asked to name that foreign land. You can't, of course, because it only exists in your imagination. Repeatedly attempting to make another poster responsible for proving the statement you made is not helping your credibility any more than your username.
 

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