CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[Mudda]

How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Do Jewish women who agree to be governed by halakah suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome?

Quite possibly. Start a thread?

 

[Mudda]

How about quoting me, instead of making wild assertions.

Kosher laws? Biblical laws? What is a biblical law, thou shall not steal? All men are created equal? Certainly one can see how our Constitution has a basis in biblical principles, or laws, on tenets, whatever you wish to call them.

But you ask about Jewish Dietary rules as if they are the equivalent of Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, and what Moslems want, if it is Sharia Law, then they have no business being in the USA, We are governed by the Constitution, period.

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

 

[Mudda]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

 

[Coyote]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?

 

[Coyote]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

 

[Coyote]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?

 

[Coyote]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Do Jewish women who agree to be governed by halakah suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome?

Quite possibly. Start a thread?

Nope, it's relevant to this thread

 

[Katzndogz]

So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?

Our Constitution was built on Biblical Laws.

So let me get this straight(LOL)

So is the Constitution Biblical law?

Where is the Kosher part in the Constitution?

Because again- you object to people living by 'foreign laws'- and Kosher is certainly not in the Constitution.

Kosher isn't part of Biblical laws either. Not even Judaic laws. Kosher is a tradition.

 

[Katzndogz]

So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?

Our Constitution was built on Biblical Laws.

No.

The Constitution was based upon Pagan Roman civil law.

The Constitution has many pillars. None of which have anything to do with Roman civil law. The basis for the Constitution is the British Magna Carta and the Iroquois contract of the six nations.

 

[Coyote]

So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?

Our Constitution was built on Biblical Laws.

No.

The Constitution was based upon Pagan Roman civil law.

The Constitution has many pillars. None of which have anything to do with Roman civil law. The basis for the Constitution is the British Magna Carta and the Iroquois contract of the six nations.

Really? Now that I didn't know...thanks for the interesting fact.

 

[Arianrhod]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

 

[Syriusly]

So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?

Our Constitution was built on Biblical Laws.

So let me get this straight(LOL)

So is the Constitution Biblical law?

Where is the Kosher part in the Constitution?

Because again- you object to people living by 'foreign laws'- and Kosher is certainly not in the Constitution.

Kosher isn't part of Biblical laws either. Not even Judaic laws. Kosher is a tradition.

Kosher law is based upon the dietary commandments of the Old Testament- and is part of Judaic law.

Judaism 101: Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws
Kashrut is the body of Jewish law dealing with what foods we can and cannot eat and how those foods must be prepared and eaten. "Kashrut" comes from the Hebrew root Kaf-Shin-Reish, meaning fit, proper or correct. It is the same root as the more commonly known word "kosher,"
But going back to the actual discussion

The short answer to why Jews observe these laws is: because the Torah says so. The Torah does not specify any reason for these laws, and for a Torah-observant, traditional Jew, there is no need for any other reason.

Me:
So- you also have a problem with anyone living their private lives according to biblical laws?

You have a problem with Orthodox Jews keeping to Kosher laws?[/QUOTE]

Electra: Our Constitution was built on Biblical Laws

I separated biblical law from Kosher laws intentionally. Electra chose to answer as she did.

 

[Syriusly]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

Hmmm no that is not proof- that is your opinion.

I happen to disagree with most organized religions, but that doesn't mean I get to commit every Christian and Jew and Muslim for psychiatric treatment just because I decide that they have been brainwashed.

I absolutely support you reporting any woman you know who has been abused. I just don't agree with you offering your help to every woman who happens to be Muslim because you are delusional.

 

[Syriusly]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Well give it a shot. With citations. Because so far you haven't come up with anything.

As long as the religious law is not violating U.S. law, I have no objections to anyone- Christian, Jew or Muslim following their own religion's laws for their personal affairs.

 

[elektra]

So...kosher should be illegal?

I don't think you know much about Jewish religious law or Sharia.

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

 

[Arianrhod]

So...kosher should be illegal?

I don't think you know much about Jewish religious law or Sharia.

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Why?

 

[Mudda]

Using sharia law screws the women out of everything. Is that what you want for American Muslim women?

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?

Freedom of religion is not absolute. As an example, I can't just rape someone and claim to be free of prosecution because I declare myself a Muslim and there weren't 4 witnessed to the rape. So the complaining woman should be stoned to death for adultery.

 

[Tilly]

Did anyone say Muslims in America shouldn't be allowed to eat halal?

 

[Arianrhod]

Did anyone say Muslims in America shouldn't be allowed to eat halal?

Those who insist they don't have the right to follow religious law in their own homes are claiming exactly that.

 

[Mudda]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? .

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.