CDZ What do American Muslims want?

Sharia Law, again, has no place in our society.

The Real Impact of Sharia Law in America

LAW

The Real Impact of Sharia Law in America
Cully Stimson / @cullystimson / September 02, 2010 / 72 comment

Does Sharia law allow a husband to rape his wife, even in America? A New Jersey trial judge thought so. In a recently overturned case, a “trial judge found as a fact that defendant committed conduct that constituted a sexual assault” but did not hold the defendant liable because the defendant believed he was exercising his rights over the victim. Fortunately, a New Jersey appellate court reversed the trial judge. But make no mistake about it: this is no isolated incident. We will see more cases here in the United States where others attempt to impose Sharia law, under the guise of First Amendment protections, as a defense against crimes and other civil violations.

In S.D. v. M.J.R., the plaintiff, a Moroccan Muslim woman, lived with her Moroccan Muslim husband in New Jersey. She was repeatedly beaten and raped by her husband over the course of several weeks. While the plaintiff was being treated for her injuries at a hospital, a police detective interviewed her and took photographs of her injuries. Those photographs depicted injuries to plaintiff’s breasts, thighs and arm, bruised lips, eyes and right check. Further investigation established there were blood stains on the pillow and sheets of plaintiff’s bed.

The wife sought a permanent restraining order, and a New Jersey trial judge held a hearing in order to decide whether to issue the order. Evidence at trial established, among other things, that the husband told his wife, “You must do whatever I tell you to do. I want to hurt your flesh” and “this is according to our religion. You are my wife, I c[an] do anything to you.” The police detective testified about her findings, and some of the photographs were entered into evidence.


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The defendant’s Imam testified that a wife must comply with her husband’s sexual demands and he refused to answer whether, under Islamic law, a husband must stop his sexual advances on his wife if she says “no.”

The trial judge found that most of the criminal acts were indeed proved, but nonetheless denied the permanent retraining order. This judge held that the defendant could not be held responsible for the violent sexual assaults of his wife because he did not have the specific intent to sexually assault his wife, and because his actions were “consistent with his [religious] practices.” In other words, the judge refused to issue the permanent restraining order because under Sharia law, this Muslim husband had a “right” to rape his wife.

Besides the fact that the ruling is wrong as a legal matter, and offensive beyond words, it goes to the heart of the controversy about the insidious spread of Sharia law—the goal of radical Islamic extremists. Fortunately, the New Jersey appellate court refused to tolerate the trial judge’s “mistaken” and unsustainable decision. The appellate court chastised the trial judge’s ruling, holding among other things that he held an “unnecessarily dismissive view of defendant’s acts of domestic violence,” and that his views of the facts in the case “may have been colored by his perception that…they were culturally acceptable and thus not actionable – -a view we soundly reject.” Although appellate courts typically defer to findings of fact by trial judges, under the circumstances, this appellate court correctly refused to do so, and reversed the trial court and ordered the permanent restraining order to issue.

The truth is that imposition of Sharia law in the United States, especially when mixed with a perverted sense of political correctness, poses a danger to civil society. Just last year, a Muslim man in Buffalo, New York beheaded his wife in what appeared to be an honor killing, again using his faith to justify his actions. It is doubtful that the domestic violence and rape in this recently overturned case will be the last Americans see of Sharia being impermissibly used to justify brutal acts on our soil. As former Assistant Secretary of Defense Frank Gaffney wrote recently:

Sharia is no less toxic when it comes to the sorts of democratic government and civil liberties guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. According to this legal code of Saudi Arabia and Iran, only Allah can make laws, and only a theocrat can properly administer them, ultimately on a global basis.

The trial opinion in this case shows that, indeed, the global reach of Sharia law is expanding. The trial court allowed the testimony of an Imam to be entered so that his account of Sharia’s standards could supercede the standards set by the New Jersey legislature. This is not just about cultural defenses, which by themselves are not proper under United States law, but about giving up control of the law to a religious code citizens of this country have no control over, a theocratic code world famous for its antidemocratic, sexist nature and its human rights abuses
 
Sharia Law, again, has no place in our society.

The Real Impact of Sharia Law in America

LAW

The Real Impact of Sharia Law in America
Cully Stimson / @cullystimson / September 02, 2010 / 72 comment

Does Sharia law allow a husband to rape his wife, even in America? A New Jersey trial judge thought so. In a recently overturned case, a “trial judge found as a fact that defendant committed conduct that constituted a sexual assault” but did not hold the defendant liable because the defendant believed he was exercising his rights over the victim. Fortunately, a New Jersey appellate court reversed the trial judge. But make no mistake about it: this is no isolated incident. We will see more cases here in the United States where others attempt to impose Sharia law, under the guise of First Amendment protections, as a defense against crimes and other civil violations.

In S.D. v. M.J.R., the plaintiff, a Moroccan Muslim woman, lived with her Moroccan Muslim husband in New Jersey. She was repeatedly beaten and raped by her husband over the course of several weeks. While the plaintiff was being treated for her injuries at a hospital, a police detective interviewed her and took photographs of her injuries. Those photographs depicted injuries to plaintiff’s breasts, thighs and arm, bruised lips, eyes and right check. Further investigation established there were blood stains on the pillow and sheets of plaintiff’s bed.

The wife sought a permanent restraining order, and a New Jersey trial judge held a hearing in order to decide whether to issue the order. Evidence at trial established, among other things, that the husband told his wife, “You must do whatever I tell you to do. I want to hurt your flesh” and “this is according to our religion. You are my wife, I c[an] do anything to you.” The police detective testified about her findings, and some of the photographs were entered into evidence.


The Daily Signal is the multimedia news organization of The Heritage Foundation. We’ll respect your inbox and keep you informed.




The defendant’s Imam testified that a wife must comply with her husband’s sexual demands and he refused to answer whether, under Islamic law, a husband must stop his sexual advances on his wife if she says “no.”

The trial judge found that most of the criminal acts were indeed proved, but nonetheless denied the permanent retraining order. This judge held that the defendant could not be held responsible for the violent sexual assaults of his wife because he did not have the specific intent to sexually assault his wife, and because his actions were “consistent with his [religious] practices.” In other words, the judge refused to issue the permanent restraining order because under Sharia law, this Muslim husband had a “right” to rape his wife.

Besides the fact that the ruling is wrong as a legal matter, and offensive beyond words, it goes to the heart of the controversy about the insidious spread of Sharia law—the goal of radical Islamic extremists. Fortunately, the New Jersey appellate court refused to tolerate the trial judge’s “mistaken” and unsustainable decision. The appellate court chastised the trial judge’s ruling, holding among other things that he held an “unnecessarily dismissive view of defendant’s acts of domestic violence,” and that his views of the facts in the case “may have been colored by his perception that…they were culturally acceptable and thus not actionable – -a view we soundly reject.” Although appellate courts typically defer to findings of fact by trial judges, under the circumstances, this appellate court correctly refused to do so, and reversed the trial court and ordered the permanent restraining order to issue.

The truth is that imposition of Sharia law in the United States, especially when mixed with a perverted sense of political correctness, poses a danger to civil society. Just last year, a Muslim man in Buffalo, New York beheaded his wife in what appeared to be an honor killing, again using his faith to justify his actions. It is doubtful that the domestic violence and rape in this recently overturned case will be the last Americans see of Sharia being impermissibly used to justify brutal acts on our soil. As former Assistant Secretary of Defense Frank Gaffney wrote recently:

Sharia is no less toxic when it comes to the sorts of democratic government and civil liberties guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. According to this legal code of Saudi Arabia and Iran, only Allah can make laws, and only a theocrat can properly administer them, ultimately on a global basis.

The trial opinion in this case shows that, indeed, the global reach of Sharia law is expanding. The trial court allowed the testimony of an Imam to be entered so that his account of Sharia’s standards could supercede the standards set by the New Jersey legislature. This is not just about cultural defenses, which by themselves are not proper under United States law, but about giving up control of the law to a religious code citizens of this country have no control over, a theocratic code world famous for its antidemocratic, sexist nature and its human rights abuses

When do you plan to explain how the First Amendment "destroys the Constitution"?
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wives and sell their daughters at any age they wish. It is Allah's will. I guess we must allow this?
 
How do we police religious law in synagogues? Halakah calls for stoning or burning adulterers and disobedient children as does biblical law. Who is protecting those children and women?
.
Give one example of Jews burning children to death in the USA, or Israel for that matter.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

You still do not have one example to give, of Muslims resolving civil matters under sharia law in the privacy of their homes?

Enough with trolling Electra review the CDZ rules.

I already pointed out earlier in this thread that most religious people in the US don't follow or desire the penal codes.

Your also moving the goal posts, now it is "in the privacy of their own homes"
You are the one that stated that Muslims were settling civil disputes in the privacy of their homes? Yes? And I am not trolling, I am looking for you support the opinions you keep posting.

Yes follow the CDZ rules and actually debate.

No, Electra, I did not say that.
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wives and sell their daughters at any age they wish. It is Allah's will. I guess we must allow this?

I can cite many Muslim clerics and theologians who would disagree with those claims.

Why should we accept your definition of "Sharia law" over theirs?
 
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wife. But according to some in this thread, Sharia Law is protected by the 1st Amendment!

The Real Impact of Sharia Law in America

Does Sharia law allow a husband to rape his wife, even in America? A New Jersey trial judge thought so. In a recently overturned case, a “trial judge found as a fact that defendant committed conduct that constituted a sexual assault” but did not hold the defendant liable because the defendant believed he was exercising his rights over the victim. Fortunately, a New Jersey appellate court reversed the trial judge. But make no mistake about it: this is no isolated incident. We will see more cases here in the United States where others attempt to impose Sharia law, under the guise of First Amendment protections, as a defense against crimes and other civil violations.
Umm...no.

No one has said that. In fact everyone has made the statement that it does not overrule US law or Constitution. Domestic battery is a crime regardless of your religion, just like we don't stone people or set them on fire.
People have said Sharia Law is protected by the 1st amendment.

Here a Muslim is practicing Sharia law, which resulted in rape. Like I said, Sharia Law is at odds with our rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
People have said that religious freedoms are protected. But they've also said it is not an unlimited right.
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wives and sell their daughters at any age they wish. It is Allah's will. I guess we must allow this?

So you claim. You also claim the First Amendment "destroys the Constitution." At this point, both opinions hold equal validity - i.e., you're entitled to them, but that doesn't make them accurate.
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wives and sell their daughters at any age they wish. It is Allah's will. I guess we must allow this?
Again, you need to read what people actually wrote.
 
I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? :D.

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.

You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.
So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?

No one would. None of this applies to criminal law mor does it overide secular law. If it did, we'd be in a shitload of trouble because the Bible extorts us to stone adulterers and the Halakah punishment for adulters is also stoning. None of that of course is legal in this country nor do most religious people in this country desire it.
So in other words, the First Amendment right to freedom of religion doesn't really exist, does it? So stop leaning on it for your arguments please.

No rights are unrestricted, that doesn't mean they are non existent.
Just as long as you have realized that "freedom of religion" is not an argument, it's all good. :D
 
The women will still get seriously screwed in a lot of cases. We shouldn't be letting that happen, we're supposed to be a civilized country. I guess you don't care about that.

Women still get screwed in a lot of cases regardless of religion or lack of religion. We shouldn't be letting that happen.

But I guess you don't care about that.
With regards to the topic of the thread, you're the one throwing women to the sharia sharks, not me. I'm trying to convince you not to throw them overboard, they don't deserve that.

You are the one who wants to deny Muslim women their First Amendment rights.

I am the one who believes all women should be protected by both criminal and civil law, regardless of their religion.
We've already established that Freedom of Religion is a fake statement, and that there is no such thing..

No- we have already established that is what you believe.

Meanwhile, everyone's freedom of religion is protected equally by the Constitution- even Muslims, much to your dismay.
If their freedom of religion actually existed, Muslims would implement full sharia. So the constitution protects no religion, it's not my opinion, it's a fact. So even if I wanted to agree with you, the facts are against you, so I can't.
 
Sharia Law would undermine our Constitution, period.

If our government were replaced by a caliphate, yes. Not going to happen.
How do you protect the rights of muslim woman who do not appear in a U.S. Court for a divorce, but instead are divorced "in the privacy of their home" (as was stated in this thread).

If they are divorced in their home- they are not legally divorced in the United States.
And how would they even know that, especially if they weren't married by law in the first place, and only through sharia?
 
Women still get screwed in a lot of cases regardless of religion or lack of religion. We shouldn't be letting that happen.

But I guess you don't care about that.
With regards to the topic of the thread, you're the one throwing women to the sharia sharks, not me. I'm trying to convince you not to throw them overboard, they don't deserve that.

You are the one who wants to deny Muslim women their First Amendment rights.

I am the one who believes all women should be protected by both criminal and civil law, regardless of their religion.
We've already established that Freedom of Religion is a fake statement, and that there is no such thing..

No- we have already established that is what you believe.

Meanwhile, everyone's freedom of religion is protected equally by the Constitution- even Muslims, much to your dismay.
If their freedom of religion actually existed, Muslims would implement full sharia. So the constitution protects no religion, it's not my opinion, it's a fact. So even if I wanted to agree with you, the facts are against you, so I can't.

Once again you confuse your opinion with facts.

Meanwhile, everyone's freedom of religion is protected equally by the Constitution- even Muslims, much to your dismay
 
Sharia Law would undermine our Constitution, period.

If our government were replaced by a caliphate, yes. Not going to happen.
How do you protect the rights of muslim woman who do not appear in a U.S. Court for a divorce, but instead are divorced "in the privacy of their home" (as was stated in this thread).

If they are divorced in their home- they are not legally divorced in the United States.
And how would they even know that, especially if they weren't married by law in the first place, and only through sharia?

If anyone is married in a religious marriage, and never married in a civil marriage, it isn't a legal marriage in the United States.

And if they are divorced from their religious marriage then it is as irrelevant as getting 'divorced' from your roommate.
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sharia Law allows men to rape their wives and sell their daughters at any age they wish. It is Allah's will. I guess we must allow this?

You don't actually read anyone else's posts do you?

Not one person here has said that anyone should be allowed to break U.S. law- and instead we have repeatedly said that regardless of Sharia, criminal laws still protect everyone.

If you keep repeating that same charge again, then it will be obvious that you are just resorting to lying.
 
Sharia Law would undermine our Constitution, period.

If our government were replaced by a caliphate, yes. Not going to happen.
How do you protect the rights of muslim woman who do not appear in a U.S. Court for a divorce, but instead are divorced "in the privacy of their home" (as was stated in this thread).

If they are divorced in their home- they are not legally divorced in the United States.
And how would they even know that, especially if they weren't married by law in the first place, and only through sharia?
This happens in the UK. About 30% of Muslim women are married under sharia law but not UK law. If they want a divorce because they are abused, for example, the sharia court usually refuses, and threats to take their children from them and being ostracised by their community render them trapped in marriages where they are often treated like chattel. They have no recourse to the law of the land in the matter of divorce, and they are often too frightened to avail themselves of anything other than sharia law in other family matters such as custody of their children. Their human rights are violated thus. It's a real tragedy. People either support universal human rights or they don't. Sharia law most certainly doesn't. How can it when a woman is worth so much less than a man? I hope the US does not start down the slippery slope, if it hasn't already.
 
Sharia Law would undermine our Constitution, period.

If our government were replaced by a caliphate, yes. Not going to happen.
How do you protect the rights of muslim woman who do not appear in a U.S. Court for a divorce, but instead are divorced "in the privacy of their home" (as was stated in this thread).

If they are divorced in their home- they are not legally divorced in the United States.
And how would they even know that, especially if they weren't married by law in the first place, and only through sharia?
This happens in the UK. About 30% of Muslim women are married under sharia law but not UK law. If they want a divorce because they are abused, for example, the sharia court usually refuses, and threats to take their children from them and being ostracised by their community render them trapped in marriages where they are often treated like chattel. They have no recourse to the law of the land in the matter of divorce, and they are often too frightened to avail themselves of anything other than sharia law in other family matters such as custody of their children. Their human rights are violated thus. It's a real tragedy. People either support universal human rights or they don't. Sharia law most certainly doesn't. How can it when a woman is worth so much less than a man? I hope the US does not
Start down the slippery slope, if it hasn't already.

They have the same recourse to law as any other woman whose non-married male partner attempts to take their children away.
 
Sharia Law would undermine our Constitution, period.

If our government were replaced by a caliphate, yes. Not going to happen.
How do you protect the rights of muslim woman who do not appear in a U.S. Court for a divorce, but instead are divorced "in the privacy of their home" (as was stated in this thread).

If they are divorced in their home- they are not legally divorced in the United States.
And how would they even know that, especially if they weren't married by law in the first place, and only through sharia?
This happens in the UK. About 30% of Muslim women are married under sharia law but not UK law. If they want a divorce because they are abused, for example, the sharia court usually refuses, and threats to take their children from them and being ostracised by their community render them trapped in marriages where they are often treated like chattel. They have no recourse to the law of the land in the matter of divorce, and they are often too frightened to avail themselves of anything other than sharia law in other family matters such as custody of their children. Their human rights are violated thus. It's a real tragedy. People either support universal human rights or they don't. Sharia law most certainly doesn't. How can it when a woman is worth so much less than a man? I hope the US does not start down the slippery slope, if it hasn't already.

Can you provide documentation for that?
 

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