What firearms are protected by the 2nd Amendment

[The T]

Well...

I support gun ownership by everyone, period. I think we all should own one, in order to ensure our constitutional right, for home protection, for hunting, etc, etc.

However...

In response to this particular question, the only weapons the founding fathers had were muskets and early rifles. So, I imagine that as far as intent goes, the 2nd amendment couldn't possibly have been specifically intended to cover any of those.

Certainly I don't think they intended individual citizens to be stocking up on artillery, which I guess would be the closest Revolutionary war equivalent to an automatic weapon.

So I guess it's all about how you look at it.

What about the ink pen or the internet? Did the founders think we would be using email and ink pens to exercise our first amendment rights. Or should we still be using parchment and with quail? Should we appeal all laws that weren't written on parchment and with quail?

First Amendment means what it says no matter the vehicle used for such speech. It's that simple.

 

[JBeukema]

Why should I give a damn what 'the founding fathers thought'? Should we be governed by corpses like North Korea?

Did you really think the Founding Fathers expected us to give blacks and women guns- or voting rights?

Hell, the FF were for the personal mandate. And for slavery. And against keeping a standing army.

All brilliant ideas!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well...

I support gun ownership by everyone, period. I think we all should own one, in order to ensure our constitutional right, for home protection, for hunting, etc, etc.

However...

In response to this particular question, the only weapons the founding fathers had were muskets and early rifles. So, I imagine that as far as intent goes, the 2nd amendment couldn't possibly have been specifically intended to cover any of those.

Certainly I don't think they intended individual citizens to be stocking up on artillery, which I guess would be the closest Revolutionary war equivalent to an automatic weapon.

So I guess it's all about how you look at it.

What about the ink pen or the internet? Did the founders think we would be using email and ink pens to exercise our first amendment rights. Or should we still be using parchment and with quail? Should we appeal all laws that weren't written on parchment and with quail?

First Amendment means what it says no matter the vehicle used for such speech. It's that simple.

You're killig the point I am tring to make. The founders had no idea what types of weapons would would have to help keep the second amendment, nor did they have any idea that we would be using ink pen and the internet for the first amendment.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why should I give a damn what 'the founding fathers thought'? Should we be governed by corpses like North Korea?

Did you really think the Founding Fathers expected us to give blacks and women guns- or voting rights?

Hell, the FF were for the personal mandate. And for slavery. And against keeping a standing army.

All brilliant ideas!

They were also human, but the help create the means that would protect your rights so fuck off.

 

[The T]

What about the ink pen or the internet? Did the founders think we would be using email and ink pens to exercise our first amendment rights. Or should we still be using parchment and with quail? Should we appeal all laws that weren't written on parchment and with quail?

First Amendment means what it says no matter the vehicle used for such speech. It's that simple.

You're killig the point I am tring to make. The founders had no idea what types of weapons would would have to help keep the second amendment, nor did they have any idea that we would be using ink pen and the internet for the first amendment.

Precisely. I understand fully what you're alluding to, and why I made the point. The Founders had no way of knowing future invention(s), but the key here are principles of individual rights they immersed themselves in.

And as such? Principles never change. People only abandon principle.

 

[JBeukema]

Why should I give a damn what 'the founding fathers thought'? Should we be governed by corpses like North Korea?

Did you really think the Founding Fathers expected us to give blacks and women guns- or voting rights?

Hell, the FF were for the personal mandate. And for slavery. And against keeping a standing army.

All brilliant ideas!

They were also human

Then stop treating them like gods

Stop treating 'the constitution' and the Federalist like a holy bible and think for yourself

Just because the FF were for slavery and guns everywhere doesn't mean we should all have machine guns and slaves. Just because they didn't free their own kids didn't mean civil rights are evil.

I don't give a damn what the FF had to say about anything. This world is for the living. If something is good or bad, right or wrong, then argue it based on the merits of your case. To say we should or should not do anything because a bunch of slavekeepers did or didn't do it 200 years ago makes as much sense as saying we should ban toilet paper because Hitler used it or that rape is okay as long as you marry the little girl afterward and condemn her to a lifetime of sexual exploitation and abuse.

'Constitutionalism' is nothing more but another idiot religion for people unable to think for themselves. If the FF were human, then stop elevating them to the status of demigods and givers of divine law to which we are all expected to be beholden.

but the help create the means that would protect your rights so fuck off.

Did you thank a Wobbly today? Or do you not know anything about the real struggle for civil rights and liberties in America?

 

[JBeukema]

First Amendment means what it says no matter the vehicle used for such speech. It's that simple.

You're killig the point I am tring to make. The founders had no idea what types of weapons would would have to help keep the second amendment, nor did they have any idea that we would be using ink pen and the internet for the first amendment.

Precisely. I understand fully what you're alluding to, and why I made the point. The Founders had no way of knowing future invention(s), but the key here are principles of individual rights they immersed themselves in.

And as such? Principles never change . People only abandon principle.

Tell it to their slaves... and the children they had with them and refused to free

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why should I give a damn what 'the founding fathers thought'? Should we be governed by corpses like North Korea?

Did you really think the Founding Fathers expected us to give blacks and women guns- or voting rights?

Hell, the FF were for the personal mandate. And for slavery. And against keeping a standing army.

All brilliant ideas!

They were also human

Then stop treating them like gods

Stop treating 'the constitution' and the Federalist like a holy bible and think for yourself

Just because the FF were for slavery and guns everywhere doesn't mean we should all have machine guns and slaves. Just because they didn't free their own kids didn't mean civil rights are evil.

I don't give a damn what the FF had to say about anything. This world is for the living. If something is good or bad, right or wrong, then argue it based on the merits of your case. To say we should or should not do anything because a bunch of slavekeepers did or didn't do it 200 years ago makes as much sense as saying we should ban toilet paper because Hitler used it or that rape is okay as long as you marry the little girl afterward and condemn her to a lifetime of sexual exploitation and abuse.

'Constitutionalism' is nothing more but another idiot religion for people unable to think for themselves. If the FF were human, then stop elevating them to the status of demigods and givers of divine law to which we are all expected to be beholden.

but the help create the means that would protect your rights so fuck off.

Did you thank a Wobbly today? Or do you not know anything about the real struggle for civil rights and liberties in America?

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

 

[JBeukema]

They were also human

Then stop treating them like gods

Stop treating 'the constitution' and the Federalist like a holy bible and think for yourself

Just because the FF were for slavery and guns everywhere doesn't mean we should all have machine guns and slaves. Just because they didn't free their own kids didn't mean civil rights are evil.

I don't give a damn what the FF had to say about anything. This world is for the living. If something is good or bad, right or wrong, then argue it based on the merits of your case. To say we should or should not do anything because a bunch of slavekeepers did or didn't do it 200 years ago makes as much sense as saying we should ban toilet paper because Hitler used it or that rape is okay as long as you marry the little girl afterward and condemn her to a lifetime of sexual exploitation and abuse.

'Constitutionalism' is nothing more but another idiot religion for people unable to think for themselves. If the FF were human, then stop elevating them to the status of demigods and givers of divine law to which we are all expected to be beholden.

but the help create the means that would protect your rights so fuck off.

Did you thank a Wobbly today? Or do you not know anything about the real struggle for civil rights and liberties in America?

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped? Or once you realize the FF were human? Or once you read a history book and thank a wobbly?

 

[RadiomanATL]

They were also human

Then stop treating them like gods

Stop treating 'the constitution' and the Federalist like a holy bible and think for yourself

Just because the FF were for slavery and guns everywhere doesn't mean we should all have machine guns and slaves. Just because they didn't free their own kids didn't mean civil rights are evil.

I don't give a damn what the FF had to say about anything. This world is for the living. If something is good or bad, right or wrong, then argue it based on the merits of your case. To say we should or should not do anything because a bunch of slavekeepers did or didn't do it 200 years ago makes as much sense as saying we should ban toilet paper because Hitler used it or that rape is okay as long as you marry the little girl afterward and condemn her to a lifetime of sexual exploitation and abuse.

'Constitutionalism' is nothing more but another idiot religion for people unable to think for themselves. If the FF were human, then stop elevating them to the status of demigods and givers of divine law to which we are all expected to be beholden.

but the help create the means that would protect your rights so fuck off.

Did you thank a Wobbly today? Or do you not know anything about the real struggle for civil rights and liberties in America?

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Then stop treating them like gods

Stop treating 'the constitution' and the Federalist like a holy bible and think for yourself

Just because the FF were for slavery and guns everywhere doesn't mean we should all have machine guns and slaves. Just because they didn't free their own kids didn't mean civil rights are evil.

I don't give a damn what the FF had to say about anything. This world is for the living. If something is good or bad, right or wrong, then argue it based on the merits of your case. To say we should or should not do anything because a bunch of slavekeepers did or didn't do it 200 years ago makes as much sense as saying we should ban toilet paper because Hitler used it or that rape is okay as long as you marry the little girl afterward and condemn her to a lifetime of sexual exploitation and abuse.

'Constitutionalism' is nothing more but another idiot religion for people unable to think for themselves. If the FF were human, then stop elevating them to the status of demigods and givers of divine law to which we are all expected to be beholden.


Did you thank a Wobbly today? Or do you not know anything about the real struggle for civil rights and liberties in America?

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped?

once you do that then you allow laws to be created that are not authorized by the Constitution.

 

[RadiomanATL]

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped?

once you do that then you allow laws to be created that are not authorized by the Constitution.

oooh-kay.

I never meant anyone who was proud that they didn't think for themselves. First time for everything I guess.

 

[The T]

You're killig the point I am tring to make. The founders had no idea what types of weapons would would have to help keep the second amendment, nor did they have any idea that we would be using ink pen and the internet for the first amendment.

Precisely. I understand fully what you're alluding to, and why I made the point. The Founders had no way of knowing future invention(s), but the key here are principles of individual rights they immersed themselves in.

And as such? Principles never change . People only abandon principle.

Tell it to their slaves... and the children they had with them and refused to free

Ever heard of the 3/5ths Compromise? The Founders found the practice abhorant. So sorry...Nice strawman argument. It doesn't FLY.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped?

once you do that then you allow laws to be created that are not authorized by the Constitution.

oooh-kay.

I never meant anyone who was proud that they didn't think for themselves. First time for everything I guess.

oh right smart ass how do you know something is unconstitutional if you do not know whats in the Constitution, and what it's about?

 

[RadiomanATL]

once you do that then you allow laws to be created that are not authorized by the Constitution.

oooh-kay.

I never meant anyone who was proud that they didn't think for themselves. First time for everything I guess.

oh right smart ass how do you know something is unconstitutional if you do not know whats in the Constitution, and what it's about?

By thinking for myself and applying critical thinking skills. And combining that with knowing what's in the constitution.

 

[Ernie S.]

The Constitution is the founding document. It is the LAW pure and simple. The principles set down do not change with age, idiom or moral climate. They change with a process carefully outlined therein. If you want to limit the weapons I can own, do so in the proscribed way or stfu.

 

[JBeukema]

NEVER. Once you do that then you start to allow your guard to be dropped.

Once you think for yourself you allow your guard to be dropped?

once you do that then you allow laws to be created that are not authorized by the Constitution.

Because ending slavery in 1807 would be fuckin' evil, man!

Does COTUS say murder can be illegal at the federal level? If not, then why is it evil to make murder illegal in the territories? If so, please show me where this power is enumerated- and be specific.

Also, there's the matter of the personal mandate...

 

[JBeukema]

Precisely. I understand fully what you're alluding to, and why I made the point. The Founders had no way of knowing future invention(s), but the key here are principles of individual rights they immersed themselves in.

And as such? Principles never change . People only abandon principle.

Tell it to their slaves... and the children they had with them and refused to free

Ever heard of the 3/5ths Compromise? The Founders found the practice abhorant. So sorry...Nice strawman argument. It doesn't FLY.

You expect me to believe that a bunch of guys who owned slaves and didn't even free their own children found slavery abhorrent?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

oooh-kay.

I never meant anyone who was proud that they didn't think for themselves. First time for everything I guess.

oh right smart ass how do you know something is unconstitutional if you do not know whats in the Constitution, and what it's about?

By thinking for myself and applying critical thinking skills. And combining that with knowing what's in the constitution.

I think I just said that stupid. Knowing what the Constitution is about would be part of the critical thinking skills. And knowing whats in it would cover the other.

 

[RadiomanATL]

oh right smart ass how do you know something is unconstitutional if you do not know whats in the Constitution, and what it's about?

By thinking for myself and applying critical thinking skills. And combining that with knowing what's in the constitution.

I think I just said that stupid. Knowing what the Constitution is about would be part of the critical thinking skills. And knowing whats in it would cover the other.

No, you just said that you don't think for yourself because the constitution does it for you.

I said that I apply my critical thinking skills to what is in the constitution.

Big difference....stupid.