What happens when a tax cut doesn't cut people's taxes so they'd notice?

[Billo_Really]

The poorest Americans don't pay income tax. Or has that fact escaped you? You are reading propaganda, that has no bearing on who is going to get the tax breaks...those who pay the taxes. Duh.

Why don't you prove its propaganda? And tell us why your opinion carries more weight on this subject than the Tax Policy Center.

 

[Skull Pilot]

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

in a few months we'll see how much those cuts mean in the election where I expect Repubs to lose at least the house and maybe the senate

Well, it's a no brainer that the Party who controls the Executive branch loses a shitload of Seats in the following election. The only question is how many will the repubs lose.

but why? Tax cuts and the way repubs idolize that garbage you'd think everything was set for a great republican victory regardless what history showed

Because the PEOPLE have always held a massive distrust of the Executive, and rightly so. Thus, whichever party holds the Executive, the PEOPLE want there to be a challenge to that authority. It's one of the things that has made this country as good as it is. No Party has ever been able to run roughshod over the PEOPLE.

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Words to live by

“No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session.”

― Gideon J. Tucker

 

[Skull Pilot]

"Meager"? Hmm. There are a lot of people who will get at least 1000 dollars. Which to them is quite a bit. A rich person wouldn't notice it, hence nancy pelosi and her crumbs comment, but to those who are lower middle class that thousand bucks is meaningful. Of course when you're a welfare slug it pisses you off because that is money that you don't get to steal, but to those who are getting it they say "yeah, we need this".

And the Dems fought against those people getting anything.

Not a smart move, nor is your continued railing against it.

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

You do realize that a big part of the cut in corporate taxes is spelled out in Section 199A is a great and as yet unheard of tax break for middle class business owners who operate as S corps, LLCs or sole proprietors that gives these businesses up to a 20% deduction on qualified business income don't you?

 

[Care4all]

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

They didn't have a choice. They could make the corporate rates permanent, but thanks to the rules of the Senate they couldn't do it for the plebes.

I need to read up on those rules....reconciliation and all that mumbo jumbo they talked about and played musical chairs with is like Greek to me!!!!!


HAPPY EASTER westwall!

 

[KissMy]

Love paying more for GAS and everything else so rich people get tax cut

 

[OnePercenter]

but why? Tax cuts and the way repubs idolize that garbage you'd think everything was set for a great republican victory regardless what history showed

Because the PEOPLE have always held a massive distrust of the Executive, and rightly so. Thus, whichever party holds the Executive, the PEOPLE want there to be a challenge to that authority. It's one of the things that has made this country as good as it is. No Party has ever been able to run roughshod over the PEOPLE.

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Ummmm, that's why they vote the other Party into Congress.... To control that President.

but if a president is doing a good job for a large majority of the people why take away his congress?

Because the American PEOPLE have always had a healthy mistrust of government. And based on what we have seen, they are correct in doing so.

And the American PEOPLE continue to vote against their best interest.......Republicans.

What about you and yours in Canada, are you happy with your last election?

 

[westwall]

Because the PEOPLE have always held a massive distrust of the Executive, and rightly so. Thus, whichever party holds the Executive, the PEOPLE want there to be a challenge to that authority. It's one of the things that has made this country as good as it is. No Party has ever been able to run roughshod over the PEOPLE.

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Ummmm, that's why they vote the other Party into Congress.... To control that President.

but if a president is doing a good job for a large majority of the people why take away his congress?

Because the American PEOPLE have always had a healthy mistrust of government. And based on what we have seen, they are correct in doing so.

And the American PEOPLE continue to vote against their best interest.......Republicans.

What about you and yours in Canada, are you happy with your last election?

I live in Nevada. Best try and keep up at least geographically.

 

[OnePercenter]

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

It's called stimulating the economy without adding to the bill.

Government doesn't "stimulate" anything. It stifles. obummers admin is an excellent example of that.

If you're writing of corporate welfare, you are correct. Social welfare places $1.70 in the economy for every dollar spent.

Obama did a great job in taking over after the worst economic crash in world history caused by Republicans and corporate America.

 

[OnePercenter]

No, half the country doesn't make enough money to pay taxes.

Sorry, how is that different again? You're saying half the country is in poverty? Wow, you're a fucking imbecile. You think half the richest country in the history of man is in poverty. You're a mind swilling leftist elitist

No, I'm saying that working class Americans are woefully underpaid and make so little they don't pay income tax.

And progressive policies ENCOURAGE that to happen.

Try corporate greed. It's the thinking that investors should get a higher return than workers.

'
We are in some agreement here. However, without the investors there would have likely been no corporation in the first place. I do agree, however, that multinational corporations are the bane of capitalism. There is virtually nothing they do that is truly capitalist. They buy the politicians and the politicians pass laws that help their corporate masters. That is pure fascism.

I will grant you that.

Then the American government should cap investor returns to inflation and make foreign investment illegal. It's a better return than American workers do with pay.

 

[OnePercenter]

Is that per week, every two weeks? If it's per week, that 1,404 more dollars in your pocket per year. That would pay my annual cell phone bill with 600 and change left over.


.

It's every week.

As a matter of fact, my cell phone did have a credit on my bill. I don't know if that is related, but it is nice.

How much every week?

Are you sure you didn't over-pay last month?

 

[OnePercenter]

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Ummmm, that's why they vote the other Party into Congress.... To control that President.

but if a president is doing a good job for a large majority of the people why take away his congress?

Because the American PEOPLE have always had a healthy mistrust of government. And based on what we have seen, they are correct in doing so.

And the American PEOPLE continue to vote against their best interest.......Republicans.

What about you and yours in Canada, are you happy with your last election?

I live in Nevada. Best try and keep up at least geographically.

I thought we established you live in Reno, Alberta, Canada.

 

[OnePercenter]

"Meager"? Hmm. There are a lot of people who will get at least 1000 dollars. Which to them is quite a bit. A rich person wouldn't notice it, hence nancy pelosi and her crumbs comment, but to those who are lower middle class that thousand bucks is meaningful. Of course when you're a welfare slug it pisses you off because that is money that you don't get to steal, but to those who are getting it they say "yeah, we need this".

And the Dems fought against those people getting anything.

Not a smart move, nor is your continued railing against it.

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

The fact remains that nobody needs tax cuts. The American worker needs a huge raise.

 

[OnePercenter]

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

The two big crashes were under republicans 1932 and 2008. The way republicans are putting this country into debt so the top earners can get filthier richer than they are now almost guarantees another crash.

The crashes happened thanks to crap the Dems had set up before. But, the next crash is going to happen thanks to idiots kicking the can down the road for a couple of generations and the government enacting entitlement programs that we can't afford so they could garner votes.

The crash happened because the Bush administration didn't police corporate America.

 

[westwall]

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

It's called stimulating the economy without adding to the bill.

Government doesn't "stimulate" anything. It stifles. obummers admin is an excellent example of that.

If you're writing of corporate welfare, you are correct. Social welfare places $1.70 in the economy for every dollar spent.

Obama did a great job in taking over after the worst economic crash in world history caused by Republicans and corporate America.

Fanciful propaganda. Social programs are a net drain on the economy. If they weren't then every country that used them would be skyrocketing economically....but they aren't. And your claim that obummer "saved" us from the "worst economic crash in world history" is laughable.

The recession was moderate by any standard, but it was made worse by his incredibly moronic policies.

 

[westwall]

Sorry, how is that different again? You're saying half the country is in poverty? Wow, you're a fucking imbecile. You think half the richest country in the history of man is in poverty. You're a mind swilling leftist elitist

No, I'm saying that working class Americans are woefully underpaid and make so little they don't pay income tax.

And progressive policies ENCOURAGE that to happen.

Try corporate greed. It's the thinking that investors should get a higher return than workers.

'
We are in some agreement here. However, without the investors there would have likely been no corporation in the first place. I do agree, however, that multinational corporations are the bane of capitalism. There is virtually nothing they do that is truly capitalist. They buy the politicians and the politicians pass laws that help their corporate masters. That is pure fascism.

I will grant you that.

Then the American government should cap investor returns to inflation and make foreign investment illegal. It's a better return than American workers do with pay.

Here you may be on to something. Certainly the foreign investment part i agree with, but the people who pony up the early money i think should be able to get a healthier return on their investment than the johnny come lately's. Don't you? They incur far more risk than the latter investors.

 

[westwall]

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

The fact remains that nobody needs tax cuts. The American worker needs a huge raise.

The tax cuts are a huge raise. The poor who pay no taxes get left out because they ain't contributing, but the middle class gets a nice claw back and that is a huge boon to them. The problem with you raising wages is that is merely adding to inflation. That's the problem with the minimum wage, it doesn't increase the wealth of the middle class at all, it merely makes them think they are better off but their dollar is worth less so whatever raise they get is consumed by the inflation that follows. The minimum wage when I was a youth was .80 cents an hour. That .80 cents back then would buy the equivalent of what 10 bucks buys today. No net gain at all.

 

[westwall]

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

The two big crashes were under republicans 1932 and 2008. The way republicans are putting this country into debt so the top earners can get filthier richer than they are now almost guarantees another crash.

The crashes happened thanks to crap the Dems had set up before. But, the next crash is going to happen thanks to idiots kicking the can down the road for a couple of generations and the government enacting entitlement programs that we can't afford so they could garner votes.

The crash happened because the Bush administration didn't police corporate America.

Once again a laughable assertion, the crash happened because both sides of the aisle ignore reality. They spend more than they take in and one of the ways they could do that was by inflating the markets. The markets can only take so much inflation before they implode. The problem with the obummer "fix" is all he did was put the real correction off for a few more years. That way the next crash is going to be truly epic, and if you are still alive when it happens you will get to see what obummers policies have wrought.

 

[OnePercenter]

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

It's called stimulating the economy without adding to the bill.

Government doesn't "stimulate" anything. It stifles. obummers admin is an excellent example of that.

If you're writing of corporate welfare, you are correct. Social welfare places $1.70 in the economy for every dollar spent.

Obama did a great job in taking over after the worst economic crash in world history caused by Republicans and corporate America.

Fanciful propaganda. Social programs are a net drain on the economy. If they weren't then every country that used them would be skyrocketing economically....but they aren't. And you claim that obummer "saved" us from the "worst economic crash in world history" is laughable.

The recession was moderate by any standard, but it was made worse by his incredibly moronic policies.

Do we really have to discuss what happens to the dollar that pays for something?

Here is some real facts for your "moderate" disinformation.

Financial Crisis Cost Tops $22 Trillion, GAO Says | HuffPost

 

[Billo_Really]

Are you sure you didn't over-pay last month?

It was probably something like that.

 

[OnePercenter]

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

The two big crashes were under republicans 1932 and 2008. The way republicans are putting this country into debt so the top earners can get filthier richer than they are now almost guarantees another crash.

The crashes happened thanks to crap the Dems had set up before. But, the next crash is going to happen thanks to idiots kicking the can down the road for a couple of generations and the government enacting entitlement programs that we can't afford so they could garner votes.

The crash happened because the Bush administration didn't police corporate America.

Once again a laughable assertion, the crash happened because both sides of the aisle ignore reality. They spend more than they take in and one of the ways they could do that was by inflating the markets. The markets can only take so much inflation before they implode. The problem with the obummer "fix" is all he did was put the real correction off for a few more years. That way the next crash is going to be truly epic, and if you are still alive when it happens you will get to see what obummers policies have wrought.

Bullshit! It was Wall Street’s reckless investments and trading that caused the biggest financial collapse since the Great Crash of 1929 or the trillions of dollars in costs they inflicted on our country.

Republicans and Corporate America were/are at fault.