What happens when a tax cut doesn't cut people's taxes so they'd notice?

[westwall]

But whining about the lower tax rates being the cause while they still borrowed at the same rate with the higher rates is retarded

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

Well, when you want to cut defense spending down to dangerously low levels, so low that equipment and vital weapons systems cannot be properly maintained, yeah, some people wonder about your motives.

FYI; If you are making less than $23.50/hr, you are underpaid.

Which is why we have less revenue to pay our bills.

Also, giving a tax break to corporations who pay 3%+/- of their revenue in all taxes was a VERY STUPID idea.

Sigh. . . . The only corporations that would end up paying so little in taxes would be those that had suffered huge losses in some of their major operations or that dealt heavily in real estate (where there are large tax breaks in recognition of the risk and capital involved).

Lowering the corporate income tax rate and setting up a special repatriation tax rate were brilliant moves that are luring hundreds of billions of American dollars parked overseas to come back to the U.S.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

 

[OnePercenter]

When you don't earn enough to pay taxes that is what happens.

Gotcha, half the country is in poverty and can't pay taxes. Ssssuuurrreeeee they are ...

No, half the country doesn't make enough money to pay taxes.

Sorry, how is that different again? You're saying half the country is in poverty? Wow, you're a fucking imbecile. You think half the richest country in the history of man is in poverty. You're a mind swilling leftist elitist

No, I'm saying that working class Americans are woefully underpaid and make so little they don't pay income tax.

And progressive policies ENCOURAGE that to happen.

Try corporate greed. It's the thinking that investors should get a higher return than workers.

 

[OnePercenter]

But whining about the lower tax rates being the cause while they still borrowed at the same rate with the higher rates is retarded

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

FYI; If you are making less than $23.50/hr, you are underpaid.

Which is why we have less revenue to pay our bills.

Also, giving a tax break to corporations who pay 3%+/- of their revenue in all taxes was a VERY STUPID idea.

Sigh. . . . The only corporations that would end up paying so little in taxes would be those that had suffered huge losses in some of their major operations or that dealt heavily in real estate (where there are large tax breaks in recognition of the risk and capital involved).

Lowering the corporate income tax rate and setting up a special repatriation tax rate were brilliant moves that are luring hundreds of billions of American dollars parked overseas to come back to the U.S.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

It's called stimulating the economy without adding to the bill.

 

[edward37]

in a few months we'll see how much those cuts mean in the election where I expect Repubs to lose at least the house and maybe the senate

Well, it's a no brainer that the Party who controls the Executive branch loses a shitload of Seats in the following election. The only question is how many will the repubs lose.

but why? Tax cuts and the way repubs idolize that garbage you'd think everything was set for a great republican victory regardless what history showed

Because the PEOPLE have always held a massive distrust of the Executive, and rightly so. Thus, whichever party holds the Executive, the PEOPLE want there to be a challenge to that authority. It's one of the things that has made this country as good as it is. No Party has ever been able to run roughshod over the PEOPLE.

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Ummmm, that's why they vote the other Party into Congress.... To control that President.

but if a president is doing a good job for a large majority of the people why take away his congress?

 

[westwall]

Well, it's a no brainer that the Party who controls the Executive branch loses a shitload of Seats in the following election. The only question is how many will the repubs lose.

but why? Tax cuts and the way repubs idolize that garbage you'd think everything was set for a great republican victory regardless what history showed

Because the PEOPLE have always held a massive distrust of the Executive, and rightly so. Thus, whichever party holds the Executive, the PEOPLE want there to be a challenge to that authority. It's one of the things that has made this country as good as it is. No Party has ever been able to run roughshod over the PEOPLE.

I 'd have to disagree with that Westy,,,Think 45-55% of the people think they're getting a raw deal with every president

Ummmm, that's why they vote the other Party into Congress.... To control that President.

but if a president is doing a good job for a large majority of the people why take away his congress?

Because the American PEOPLE have always had a healthy mistrust of government. And based on what we have seen, they are correct in doing so.

 

[westwall]

But whining about the lower tax rates being the cause while they still borrowed at the same rate with the higher rates is retarded

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

Sigh. . . . The only corporations that would end up paying so little in taxes would be those that had suffered huge losses in some of their major operations or that dealt heavily in real estate (where there are large tax breaks in recognition of the risk and capital involved).

Lowering the corporate income tax rate and setting up a special repatriation tax rate were brilliant moves that are luring hundreds of billions of American dollars parked overseas to come back to the U.S.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

It's called stimulating the economy without adding to the bill.

Government doesn't "stimulate" anything. It stifles. obummers admin is an excellent example of that.

 

[westwall]

Gotcha, half the country is in poverty and can't pay taxes. Ssssuuurrreeeee they are ...

No, half the country doesn't make enough money to pay taxes.

Sorry, how is that different again? You're saying half the country is in poverty? Wow, you're a fucking imbecile. You think half the richest country in the history of man is in poverty. You're a mind swilling leftist elitist

No, I'm saying that working class Americans are woefully underpaid and make so little they don't pay income tax.

And progressive policies ENCOURAGE that to happen.

Try corporate greed. It's the thinking that investors should get a higher return than workers.

'
We are in some agreement here. However, without the investors there would have likely been no corporation in the first place. I do agree, however, that multinational corporations are the bane of capitalism. There is virtually nothing they do that is truly capitalist. They buy the politicians and the politicians pass laws that help their corporate masters. That is pure fascism.

I will grant you that.

 

[nat4900]

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

A good chunk of the "repatriation" money is going to stock by-backs and, of course, huge boniuses for the CEOs, CFOs and board members.......these folks "love" Trump....

 

[Billo_Really]

And then, when you do your taxes at the end of the year you get a refund. Don't forget that little inconvenient fact billy boy.

Well until then, I'm right!

 

[Billo_Really]

Is that per week, every two weeks? If it's per week, that 1,404 more dollars in your pocket per year. That would pay my annual cell phone bill with 600 and change left over.


.

It's every week.

As a matter of fact, my cell phone did have a credit on my bill. I don't know if that is related, but it is nice.

 

[westwall]

Is that per week, every two weeks? If it's per week, that 1,404 more dollars in your pocket per year. That would pay my annual cell phone bill with 600 and change left over.


.

It's every week.

As a matter of fact, my cell phone did have a credit on my bill. I don't know if that is related, but it is nice.

Soooo, before you have the tax refund, you are already 1400 bucks ahead of where you were under your hero obummer, and your cell phone bill went down instead of up, which it was always doing under obummer.

That's a great horse you've hitched your wagon to.

 

[OKTexas]

Is that per week, every two weeks? If it's per week, that 1,404 more dollars in your pocket per year. That would pay my annual cell phone bill with 600 and change left over.


.

It's every week.

As a matter of fact, my cell phone did have a credit on my bill. I don't know if that is related, but it is nice.

So you'll be saving 1400+ per year, I'll save 200 and you're the one bitching. You're just not too bright are ya?


.

 

[Billo_Really]

Soooo, before you have the tax refund, you are already 1400 bucks ahead of where you were under your hero obummer, and your cell phone bill went down instead of up, which it was always doing under obummer.

That's a great horse you've hitched your wagon to.

The point is, I'm right. The tax bill is bullshit for average Americans.

"...the top one percent of earners will receive an average annual tax cut of around $33,000 just from individual tax changes under the GOP law. The poorest Americans, by contrast, will see an average break of about $40 per year." - Tax Policy Center (TPC)​

 

[Billo_Really]

So you'll be saving 1400+ per year, I'll save 200 and you're the one bitching. You're just not too bright are ya?


.

Smart people bitch to.

 

[jasonnfree]

But whining about the lower tax rates being the cause while they still borrowed at the same rate with the higher rates is retarded

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

FYI; If you are making less than $23.50/hr, you are underpaid.

Which is why we have less revenue to pay our bills.

Also, giving a tax break to corporations who pay 3%+/- of their revenue in all taxes was a VERY STUPID idea.

Sigh. . . . The only corporations that would end up paying so little in taxes would be those that had suffered huge losses in some of their major operations or that dealt heavily in real estate (where there are large tax breaks in recognition of the risk and capital involved).

Lowering the corporate income tax rate and setting up a special repatriation tax rate were brilliant moves that are luring hundreds of billions of American dollars parked overseas to come back to the U.S.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

The two big crashes were under republicans 1932 and 2008. The way republicans are putting this country into debt so the top earners can get filthier richer than they are now almost guarantees another crash.

 

[Care4all]

you don't really care who is going to pay for your meager tax cuts do you?? Wait till prices go up and those cuts disappear like farts in the wind

"Meager"? Hmm. There are a lot of people who will get at least 1000 dollars. Which to them is quite a bit. A rich person wouldn't notice it, hence nancy pelosi and her crumbs comment, but to those who are lower middle class that thousand bucks is meaningful. Of course when you're a welfare slug it pisses you off because that is money that you don't get to steal, but to those who are getting it they say "yeah, we need this".

And the Dems fought against those people getting anything.

Not a smart move, nor is your continued railing against it.

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

 

[Flopper]

Hopefully the same thing that happens when a new entitlement program only gives some people an entitlement.

GOP tax message hits a snag

From the cited article

More than three months after the passage of the GOP’s tax-cut law, new surveys suggest that many people don’t think they are getting bigger paychecks, which could cut into support for Republicans in this fall’s midterm elections.

A CNBC poll this week stated that just 32 percent of working adults reported having more take-home pay due to the new law, a problem for Republicans hoping to run on the measure and the health of the economy in November.

The GOP has made the tax-cut law the centerpiece of its campaign message, arguing that Republican control of Congress and the White House led to legislation that is putting more money in people’s pockets and stimulating an economy with low unemployment.

Yet the CNBC poll suggested that many people aren’t noticing much of a change from the law, a sentiment that could feed into Democratic arguments that it is helping the rich while doing little for the middle class.

I think larger families that are not low income will see no gain from the tax cut. In fact there's a good chance many families will see an increase in taxes. Larger family, say of 6 will lose a $24,000 deduction in the elimination of the personal exemption. Since they are likely to have more than $24,000 in itemized deductions, the $24,000 standard deduction will be no help. Also there are a number of deductions that have been eliminated. The only plus is a slightly lower tax rate.

I think there will be some surprised people next year at this time.

 

[westwall]

"Meager"? Hmm. There are a lot of people who will get at least 1000 dollars. Which to them is quite a bit. A rich person wouldn't notice it, hence nancy pelosi and her crumbs comment, but to those who are lower middle class that thousand bucks is meaningful. Of course when you're a welfare slug it pisses you off because that is money that you don't get to steal, but to those who are getting it they say "yeah, we need this".

And the Dems fought against those people getting anything.

Not a smart move, nor is your continued railing against it.

Donald Trump signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/Getty Images

When Republicans passed their $1.5 trillion tax cut in December, very few Americans expected to personally benefit from the legislation. Depending on the poll, somewhere between one-sixth and one-third of adults anticipated that their own tax bill was about to go down. In reality, far more households probably stood to benefit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for instance, estimated that about 80 percent of Americans would get a cut.

Why were so many people confused about what the tax cut meant for them individually? There were lots of theories. Maybe it was the press coverage, which tended to highlight the potential losers from the legislation, and how it would disproportionately benefit the rich. Maybe it was a bad sales job by Republicans, who made the mistake of rolling out early drafts of the bill that would have hiked taxes on more middle-class families than the final version. Maybe the public is just instinctively skeptical about large pieces of legislation rushed through Congress without much debate.

You do realize that this isn't good for your cause...right? The report you cite tells me that there are a whole bunch of people who are going to get a surprise tax break. The majority thought they wouldn't see anything, but, according to the report you cite, the reality is the MAJORITY of Americans will benefit. So, yes, the repubs certainly didn't make that plain, so are thus not able to claim credit for it, but the reality is it is happening, and the benefits to a huge number of Americans is real, and now well documented.

This isn't going to help the dems very much. You do realize that do you not?

when those cuts start disappearing in 2019 2020 then what?

They will have still received thousands of dollars that they wouldn't had the Dems had their way. Further when the tax cuts come up for renewal if the Dems decide to fight those renewals, you will see mass Democrat Party losses in the following elections.

Political Chess Game

and that is why the republicans chose to make the corporate 40% tax cut permanent, and not the one for the little guys....because they knew the Dems will not vote against it around election time, or ever.

But if the repubs had given us our tax cut as a permanent one, and the corporate tax cut as the one that expired,

then if the corporate tax cuts did not produce the growth in the economy needed to bring in the same amount of tax revenues or more...and the deficits and national debt continues to rise by leaps and bounds...

The Repubs and the Dems BOTH would be faced with a vote on whether to continue the corporate tax cuts as they are, or not.

Repubs did NOT want to face a vote like that....!!!!

They didn't have a choice. They could make the corporate rates permanent, but thanks to the rules of the Senate they couldn't do it for the plebes.

 

[westwall]

But whining about the lower tax rates being the cause while they still borrowed at the same rate with the higher rates is retarded

Don;t be an idiot.....Realize that the usual borrowing has just DOUBLED because of the tax scam. Surely a grown up can explain it to you.

Sigh. . . . The only corporations that would end up paying so little in taxes would be those that had suffered huge losses in some of their major operations or that dealt heavily in real estate (where there are large tax breaks in recognition of the risk and capital involved).

Lowering the corporate income tax rate and setting up a special repatriation tax rate were brilliant moves that are luring hundreds of billions of American dollars parked overseas to come back to the U.S.

Business gets to fully deduct the cost of doing business thus reducing their tax liability.

The vast majority of the repatriated monies will never see the light of day, ie; the economy.

You imagine these people are going to stick that money under their mattresses? People with money only hold their money close when there are no opportunities to put that money to work in an acceptable risk/reward enterprise.

If Trump really cared about ALL Americans, he would have put a caveat on repatriation in that 100% of the funds go to hiring and raises for existing employees, so 100% would go into the economy offsetting any losses from corporate tax cuts.

But that would be how socialists run companies, and countries, into the ground. Extremist policies always fail. ALWAYS. Leave it to an extremist, like you, to ignore that very basic, but well documented fact.

The two big crashes were under republicans 1932 and 2008. The way republicans are putting this country into debt so the top earners can get filthier richer than they are now almost guarantees another crash.

The crashes happened thanks to crap the Dems had set up before. But, the next crash is going to happen thanks to idiots kicking the can down the road for a couple of generations and the government enacting entitlement programs that we can't afford so they could garner votes.

 

[westwall]

Soooo, before you have the tax refund, you are already 1400 bucks ahead of where you were under your hero obummer, and your cell phone bill went down instead of up, which it was always doing under obummer.

That's a great horse you've hitched your wagon to.

The point is, I'm right. The tax bill is bullshit for average Americans.

"...the top one percent of earners will receive an average annual tax cut of around $33,000 just from individual tax changes under the GOP law. The poorest Americans, by contrast, will see an average break of about $40 per year." - Tax Policy Center (TPC)​

The poorest Americans don't pay income tax. Or has that fact escaped you? You are reading propaganda, that has no bearing on who is going to get the tax breaks...those who pay the taxes. Duh.