What has an illegal immigrant done to deprive you of something?

[Winston]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

I have lost money to them.

Cockfighting?

Cock Fight

Documentary on how chicken farmers are getting screwed.

Video denies public access. Not viewable. Did you intend that we watch it?

Check it out on Fusion network next time it runs. Pretty eye opening and it was a local guy.

 

[irosie91]

how would I know which are the legals and illegals in my town? In my profession I am not supposed to ask------so I do not.

actually I do ask-------the latinos----and they are always candid----because they
know that I will not TATTLE on them. I would not ask a muzzie

Okay...so I believe your earlier answer was essentially "I don't know." Now that you've shared that you do ask Latinos whether they are legal, have they or any other illegal immigrant deprived you of something?

not me personally-----it is a social issue. I do know that people in ARIZONA
resent illegal Mexicans-----seeing them as likely to engage in crime----I do not
resent them

 

[usmbguest5318]

Why so adverse to more than answering your question?

Just to clarify a bit...It's not that I mind the off topic chit chat so much. It's that the people doing it (1) don't/won't answer the thread question first, and (2) all they have to say is off topic.

I'm pretty open to folks saying whatever they want provided they first address the thread topic directly. That way, I get what I want first -- it's my thread, I think I'm entitled to that -- and they get what they want -- discussion about "whatever" that isn't on topic -- second. Is that unfair or impolite? I don't think so and I don't think it's asking too much.

Case in point. Winston has been talking about all sorts of things in this thread. I haven't complained because in his first post, he directly answered the thread question. His direct answer was the first thing he wrote in his first post.

 

[usmbguest5318]

not me personally

TY for your reply.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but an "illegal" is actually someone who has been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Until then, he is "undocumented".

You have your terms confused.

When you do something against the law, you are doing something that is illegal. If you have no legal right to be in this country, you are here illegally.

Being convicted of being here illegally means you are a convict.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been willing to exploit the brown man?

You have your terms confused.

When you do something against the law, you are doing something that is illegal. If you have no legal right to be in this country, you are here illegally.

Being convicted of being here illegally means you are a convict.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been willing to exploit the brown man?

Nope, DW. Wrong again. nobody is an "illegal" until convicted of a crime in a court of law. That is basicly high school Civics info. Did you sleep through the 8th grade?

Sorry, but you don't get to define terms.

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

Notice it says nothing about conviction.

Have a nice day.

Hard to believe just how lost some of these people really are. The hair splitting semantics played by Liberal loonies is sometimes exhausting to read through. WOW...the shit these people will come up with!

Hair splitting? Tell ya what. If a prosecuter wants to remove an undocmented person, he would have to take him to court and prove that he was in the country illegally. If, during the trial, he were to refer to the defendant was an "illegal", the defence attopreny would object, and the judge would have the word stricken from the record. The Objection of the defence attorney would be upheld.

Don't like the law, as written, to conform to the Constitution? Well, then welcome to "Trump's World".

I don't want to be associated with "Trump's World," but the court process you describe is part of the reason we have so many illegal immigrants living here for years and "getting away with it." They were apprehended and because of the laws, and because of the overburdened court systems, those people were released with a court date which they never attended. They disappeared into the shadows. Now, is it fair to the people that snuck into the country and have managed to get away with it for years to all of a sudden have an administration come in that wants to send them home? It's not fair they were allowed to get away with it for so long, get their hopes up, they've lived their lives here, raised families here, put down roots, a lot of them. We can blame politicians on both sides of the aisle for not wanting to piss off the immigrant population and the employers that hire them.

How can we manage this without it being such a joke? Can we expedite the process drastically or simplify the proceedings or find a manageable way of detaining the person until trial? We should look into how, realistically, to manage this problem. Not shoot them or violate our constitutional protections or act like assholes, but enforce our immigration laws. Right now we haven't got our arms around it.

as a matter of fact, we have been using a "better way" for years now. Please read the following:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0

As for requiring the government to give a person a fair trail is concerned, I am not about to support anyone who wants to give the government that much power over us, and who would take that right away from us.

 

[Vandalshandle]

DW, That whole thing about, "...innocent, until proven guilty" is pretty much over your head, isn't it?

That applies to courtrooms with a formal accusation. It has nothing to do with legal definitions.

Now, you'll excuse Me, but I have no intention of playing the back and forth as you continue to come up with more and more idiotic examples and definitions simply because you are lonely and need more attention.

Goodbye.

Calling someone an "illegal" has nothing to do with legal definitions?

Must be an "alternative fact"!

The fact is you and your whack-job Liberal buddies have bent over backward trying to package and re-label iILEGALS...and now your want to rewrite the dictionary...it's actually quite comical to watch how desperate (or ignorant) you people really are.
Illegal aliens
Illeagal immigrants
Undocumented immigrants
Dreamers
Wetbacks
Beaners
It doesn't really matter what you call them or how you sell it....we still see them as the same old drain on taxpayers and burden on society.
By the way, what part of Mexico are you from?

If you support the government taking away our right to a fair trail before pronouncing someone "guilty" of violating a law, I would have to categorize you as being someone who would destroy my constitutional rights. The way I see it, that makes you an enemy of my country.

 

[usmbguest5318]

The truth is America is unique. America is "special".

America isn't unique as a nation built/founded by immigrants, but that aspect of our heritage is very much part of what makes us a great nation. I think it'd be to our peril that we forsake it for fear of anything, yet that does appear to be what is happening.

Of course, our nation is not made better by admitting malfeasants, felons and misdemeanants; however, in the calculus that weighs the overall gains and losses, it's hard to say the gains don't outstrip the losses.

 

[Clementine]

"Winston, please enlighten me on exactly just how one becomes so disconnected from reality?
Daddy issues?
Abused as a child?
Also, what part of Mexico are you from?"

I am going to put it to you straight. I am Melungeon. My family has been in this valley since long before there was a United States. We let all you other yahoos stay around because, most of the time, you have enough sense to leave us the hell alone. I can tell you that Sherman went over a mountain rather than cross this here valley. I can also tell you that it was one of my forefathers that shot Fergunson off his horse at Kings Mountain.

We have been a muddled up mess of a gene pool since before the American Revolution. At Kings Mountain, native American wives, with their babies in slings on their bellies, were reloading the muskets. Long before white men were in this valley there was a group of MUSLIMS, escaped slaves off of wrecked ships along the Carolina coast had worked their way inland. Spanish explorers left behind. Maybe even members of the Lost Colony.

Diversity is what made me and it is what made this nation. Illegal immigration is not even in my vocabulary. Freedom of movement is at the core of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.

Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.
I'm 100% with you--a glorious explanation of diversity, imo--until we get to the above. If all the countries around us were on equal footing economically and socially, as they are in the EU, I could easily see open borders between the countries. But the U.S. is subsidizing the failures of so many countries south of us. With the concerns of terrorists coming here from the Middle East, we need to keep a close eye on who enters, not only through the front door via the State Department, but through the back door, on the southern border.
Great rant on diversity, though.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

You made my point in your first paragraph. People checked in so we knew who was coming in. Even without immigration laws, there was still a process to be followed. And every effort was taken to control the spread of infectious diseases.

Yes, the immigrants made this country was it is today. Sadly, those sneaking in our borders and stealing identities are not having the same positive affect. The terrorists hiding among the refugees are coming to kill, not help us. The ones coming illegally are bringing in diseases. Cases of active TB are increasing among refugees and illegal aliens.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You should pose this question to the growing numbers of families who have had a loved one murdered by an illegal alien.

Or perhaps post it in a European forum. Their present is our future if we don't do something soon.

 

[Winston]

The truth is America is unique. America is "special".

America isn't unique as a nation built/founded by immigrants, but that aspect of our heritage is very much part of what makes us a great nation. I think it'd be to our peril that we forsake it for fear of anything, yet that does appear to be what is happening.

Of course, our nation is not made better by admitting malfeasants, felons and misdemeanants; however, in the calculus that weighs the overall gains and losses, it's hard to say the gains don't outstrip the losses.

No, I tend to believe that the United States was rather unique in it's open border policy. At least for the first hundred years after the American Revolution. There can be no doubt, the borders were wide ass open prior to the Revolution. I admit, I come at this from a unique perspective. Take what happened in Colonial North Carolina.

Remember Blackbeard? Do you remember that the governor of North Carolina gave him a pardon and, for a while, old Blackbeard settled down and gave the legal life a shot. Hell, maybe you remember that the same governor gave all Blackbeard's pirates a pardon too. Actually, dozens of them did settle down in North Carolina and lived a life free from crime. But what no one seems to know is that the governor gave blanket amnesty to EVERYONE and ANYONE. Murdered somebody in Boston, no problem. Come to North Carolina. Running from your debts in Philadelphia. No problem, come on down to North Carolina. That's right, he threw open the borders and even offered protection from prosecution to criminals, pirates or otherwise, who agreed to settle in North Carolina.

A hundred years later, and after decimating Indian Wars, the foundation of the Revolution was laid, not in the Northeast. But in the War of Regulation right here in North Carolina. Not to mention the Mecklenburg Compact, now a mythical document. And of course there are the Overmountain Men, and the legendary North Carolina Militia, the foundation of Morgan's riflemen--many were the descendants of those that came more than a hundred years before.

But no bit of history tell the story of America's open borders and diversity better than our entry into the Great War, WWI. Part of it was diet, part of it was open spaces, but a big part of it was, being brutally honest, genetic diversity. Our soldiers were some big ass boys. Almost a foot taller than the average European. Heavier, more muscular, down right scary--read European descriptions from the time.

 

[Winston]

I am going to put it to you straight. I am Melungeon. My family has been in this valley since long before there was a United States. We let all you other yahoos stay around because, most of the time, you have enough sense to leave us the hell alone. I can tell you that Sherman went over a mountain rather than cross this here valley. I can also tell you that it was one of my forefathers that shot Fergunson off his horse at Kings Mountain.

We have been a muddled up mess of a gene pool since before the American Revolution. At Kings Mountain, native American wives, with their babies in slings on their bellies, were reloading the muskets. Long before white men were in this valley there was a group of MUSLIMS, escaped slaves off of wrecked ships along the Carolina coast had worked their way inland. Spanish explorers left behind. Maybe even members of the Lost Colony.

Diversity is what made me and it is what made this nation. Illegal immigration is not even in my vocabulary. Freedom of movement is at the core of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.

Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.
I'm 100% with you--a glorious explanation of diversity, imo--until we get to the above. If all the countries around us were on equal footing economically and socially, as they are in the EU, I could easily see open borders between the countries. But the U.S. is subsidizing the failures of so many countries south of us. With the concerns of terrorists coming here from the Middle East, we need to keep a close eye on who enters, not only through the front door via the State Department, but through the back door, on the southern border.
Great rant on diversity, though.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

You made my point in your first paragraph. People checked in so we knew who was coming in. Even without immigration laws, there was still a process to be followed. And every effort was taken to control the spread of infectious diseases.

Yes, the immigrants made this country was it is today. Sadly, those sneaking in our borders and stealing identities are not having the same positive affect. The terrorists hiding among the refugees are coming to kill, not help us. The ones coming illegally are bringing in diseases. Cases of active TB are increasing among refugees and illegal aliens.

Great, let's go old school. Let's set up some big ass processing centers. We can have dormitories, medical facilities, and even classrooms. Everyone checks in, get's a quick physical, fingerprinted and photographed, maybe some immunizations, and a quick check with Interpool. Then they get issued an ID, an Employer Identification Number, and sent on their way. Welcome to America. We cure the sick, we feed the hungry, and we welcome the refugee. I promise you, we will get back far more that what we have to shell out. Only the short-sighted and selfish would argue otherwise.

And any terrorist that comes in, well I promise you, you will have to wait in line to get ahold of their ass, wait in line behind all those immigrants ticked off that some dimwit terrorist would attempt to screw up their dream.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Remember Blackbeard? Do you remember that the governor of North Carolina gave him a pardon and, for a while, old Blackbeard settled down and gave the legal life a shot. Hell, maybe you remember that the same governor gave all Blackbeard's pirates a pardon too. Actually, dozens of them did settle down in North Carolina and lived a life free from crime. But what no one seems to know is that the governor gave blanket amnesty to EVERYONE and ANYONE. Murdered somebody in Boston, no problem. Come to North Carolina. Running from your debts in Philadelphia. No problem, come on down to North Carolina. That's right, he threw open the borders and even offered protection from prosecution to criminals, pirates or otherwise, who agreed to settle in North Carolina.

I get the concept you're communicating. I'm fine with that. I agree with you about the benefits of immigration and I accept, for the most part, the extant history of it as you've shared it.

Contextually speaking, your Blackbeard story doesn't fit too well with the story of the U.S., or even the U.S. under the Articles. I'm not going to feign recalling the NC Governor's specific handling of Blackbeard and like na'er do wells, but I do recall Blackbeard being part of 17th and very early 18th century (? -- I think he lived that long) history. That would make whatever the Governor of NC did in Blackbeard's day, and for quite some time after it, an act of English policy re: migration, residency, common and criminal law, etc, not U.S. policy.

 

[BrokeLoser]

"Winston, please enlighten me on exactly just how one becomes so disconnected from reality?
Daddy issues?
Abused as a child?
Also, what part of Mexico are you from?"

I am going to put it to you straight. I am Melungeon. My family has been in this valley since long before there was a United States. We let all you other yahoos stay around because, most of the time, you have enough sense to leave us the hell alone. I can tell you that Sherman went over a mountain rather than cross this here valley. I can also tell you that it was one of my forefathers that shot Fergunson off his horse at Kings Mountain.

We have been a muddled up mess of a gene pool since before the American Revolution. At Kings Mountain, native American wives, with their babies in slings on their bellies, were reloading the muskets. Long before white men were in this valley there was a group of MUSLIMS, escaped slaves off of wrecked ships along the Carolina coast had worked their way inland. Spanish explorers left behind. Maybe even members of the Lost Colony.

Diversity is what made me and it is what made this nation. Illegal immigration is not even in my vocabulary. Freedom of movement is at the core of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.

Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.
I'm 100% with you--a glorious explanation of diversity, imo--until we get to the above. If all the countries around us were on equal footing economically and socially, as they are in the EU, I could easily see open borders between the countries. But the U.S. is subsidizing the failures of so many countries south of us. With the concerns of terrorists coming here from the Middle East, we need to keep a close eye on who enters, not only through the front door via the State Department, but through the back door, on the southern border.
Great rant on diversity, though.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

The truth is America is unique. America is "special".

America isn't unique as a nation built/founded by immigrants, but that aspect of our heritage is very much part of what makes us a great nation. I think it'd be to our peril that we forsake it for fear of anything, yet that does appear to be what is happening.

Of course, our nation is not made better by admitting malfeasants, felons and misdemeanants; however, in the calculus that weighs the overall gains and losses, it's hard to say the gains don't outstrip the losses.

No, I tend to believe that the United States was rather unique in it's open border policy. At least for the first hundred years after the American Revolution. There can be no doubt, the borders were wide ass open prior to the Revolution. I admit, I come at this from a unique perspective. Take what happened in Colonial North Carolina.

Remember Blackbeard? Do you remember that the governor of North Carolina gave him a pardon and, for a while, old Blackbeard settled down and gave the legal life a shot. Hell, maybe you remember that the same governor gave all Blackbeard's pirates a pardon too. Actually, dozens of them did settle down in North Carolina and lived a life free from crime. But what no one seems to know is that the governor gave blanket amnesty to EVERYONE and ANYONE. Murdered somebody in Boston, no problem. Come to North Carolina. Running from your debts in Philadelphia. No problem, come on down to North Carolina. That's right, he threw open the borders and even offered protection from prosecution to criminals, pirates or otherwise, who agreed to settle in North Carolina.

A hundred years later, and after decimating Indian Wars, the foundation of the Revolution was laid, not in the Northeast. But in the War of Regulation right here in North Carolina. Not to mention the Mecklenburg Compact, now a mythical document. And of course there are the Overmountain Men, and the legendary North Carolina Militia, the foundation of Morgan's riflemen--many were the descendants of those that came more than a hundred years before.

But no bit of history tell the story of America's open borders and diversity better than our entry into the Great War, WWI. Part of it was diet, part of it was open spaces, but a big part of it was, being brutally honest, genetic diversity. Our soldiers were some big ass boys. Almost a foot taller than the average European. Heavier, more muscular, down right scary--read European descriptions from the time.

Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.
I'm 100% with you--a glorious explanation of diversity, imo--until we get to the above. If all the countries around us were on equal footing economically and socially, as they are in the EU, I could easily see open borders between the countries. But the U.S. is subsidizing the failures of so many countries south of us. With the concerns of terrorists coming here from the Middle East, we need to keep a close eye on who enters, not only through the front door via the State Department, but through the back door, on the southern border.
Great rant on diversity, though.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

You made my point in your first paragraph. People checked in so we knew who was coming in. Even without immigration laws, there was still a process to be followed. And every effort was taken to control the spread of infectious diseases.

Yes, the immigrants made this country was it is today. Sadly, those sneaking in our borders and stealing identities are not having the same positive affect. The terrorists hiding among the refugees are coming to kill, not help us. The ones coming illegally are bringing in diseases. Cases of active TB are increasing among refugees and illegal aliens.

Great, let's go old school. Let's set up some big ass processing centers. We can have dormitories, medical facilities, and even classrooms. Everyone checks in, get's a quick physical, fingerprinted and photographed, maybe some immunizations, and a quick check with Interpool. Then they get issued an ID, an Employer Identification Number, and sent on their way. Welcome to America. We cure the sick, we feed the hungry, and we welcome the refugee. I promise you, we will get back far more that what we have to shell out. Only the short-sighted and selfish would argue otherwise.

And any terrorist that comes in, well I promise you, you will have to wait in line to get ahold of their ass, wait in line behind all those immigrants ticked off that some dimwit terrorist would attempt to screw up their dream.

The history lesson you've provided has been awesome...takes me back to 8th grade and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Things change and humans change. Intelligent people understand that as people and the world evolves so should policy, laws and standards. Remember, people use to talk about how great this Nation was during the slavery era...policy and laws were changed...right?
Further, there is nothing wrong with intuitively selecting who you allow in and to become part of "the team"...right now we allow you in with a heart beat and the ability to breathe oxygen; we know full well that you will be taxpayer and government dependent till the day you die and we still allow you in and throw you on the backs of hard working Americans. Look past your warm and fuzzy feelings, think big picture and 3rd grade economics and you may understand how to get yourself back to TODAYS real world.

 

[Winston]

I am going to put it to you straight. I am Melungeon. My family has been in this valley since long before there was a United States. We let all you other yahoos stay around because, most of the time, you have enough sense to leave us the hell alone. I can tell you that Sherman went over a mountain rather than cross this here valley. I can also tell you that it was one of my forefathers that shot Fergunson off his horse at Kings Mountain.

We have been a muddled up mess of a gene pool since before the American Revolution. At Kings Mountain, native American wives, with their babies in slings on their bellies, were reloading the muskets. Long before white men were in this valley there was a group of MUSLIMS, escaped slaves off of wrecked ships along the Carolina coast had worked their way inland. Spanish explorers left behind. Maybe even members of the Lost Colony.

Diversity is what made me and it is what made this nation. Illegal immigration is not even in my vocabulary. Freedom of movement is at the core of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.

Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.
I'm 100% with you--a glorious explanation of diversity, imo--until we get to the above. If all the countries around us were on equal footing economically and socially, as they are in the EU, I could easily see open borders between the countries. But the U.S. is subsidizing the failures of so many countries south of us. With the concerns of terrorists coming here from the Middle East, we need to keep a close eye on who enters, not only through the front door via the State Department, but through the back door, on the southern border.
Great rant on diversity, though.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

The truth is America is unique. America is "special".

America isn't unique as a nation built/founded by immigrants, but that aspect of our heritage is very much part of what makes us a great nation. I think it'd be to our peril that we forsake it for fear of anything, yet that does appear to be what is happening.

Of course, our nation is not made better by admitting malfeasants, felons and misdemeanants; however, in the calculus that weighs the overall gains and losses, it's hard to say the gains don't outstrip the losses.

No, I tend to believe that the United States was rather unique in it's open border policy. At least for the first hundred years after the American Revolution. There can be no doubt, the borders were wide ass open prior to the Revolution. I admit, I come at this from a unique perspective. Take what happened in Colonial North Carolina.

Remember Blackbeard? Do you remember that the governor of North Carolina gave him a pardon and, for a while, old Blackbeard settled down and gave the legal life a shot. Hell, maybe you remember that the same governor gave all Blackbeard's pirates a pardon too. Actually, dozens of them did settle down in North Carolina and lived a life free from crime. But what no one seems to know is that the governor gave blanket amnesty to EVERYONE and ANYONE. Murdered somebody in Boston, no problem. Come to North Carolina. Running from your debts in Philadelphia. No problem, come on down to North Carolina. That's right, he threw open the borders and even offered protection from prosecution to criminals, pirates or otherwise, who agreed to settle in North Carolina.

A hundred years later, and after decimating Indian Wars, the foundation of the Revolution was laid, not in the Northeast. But in the War of Regulation right here in North Carolina. Not to mention the Mecklenburg Compact, now a mythical document. And of course there are the Overmountain Men, and the legendary North Carolina Militia, the foundation of Morgan's riflemen--many were the descendants of those that came more than a hundred years before.

But no bit of history tell the story of America's open borders and diversity better than our entry into the Great War, WWI. Part of it was diet, part of it was open spaces, but a big part of it was, being brutally honest, genetic diversity. Our soldiers were some big ass boys. Almost a foot taller than the average European. Heavier, more muscular, down right scary--read European descriptions from the time.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't want the educated. I don't want the wealthy. I want the WRETCHED REFUSE. It is what we ALL WERE. If we can't live by that creed take the damn statue down.

Where does it day that the wretched refuse should enter illegally and remain under the radar? Where does it say to use false IDs and stolen identities? Where does it say that those who intend to commit crimes should pour in?

It meant that people came through Ellis Island and were willing to assimilate. It never meant that they should come and strive to change America into the places they were fleeing from.

It was intended as an invitation to escape from dictatorships and tyrannical governments. Now, the left seems to believe that it's intended to bring those things here.

There were no immigration laws when Ellis Island opened. Hell, anyone could come on in. That is what Ellis Island was, a processing station where people completed the necessary paperwork. Nobody bothered to attempt a go around because damn near everyone was accepted in. Unless they were sick, then they were TREATED before they were, not sent back, but allowed in.

That changed in 1921. That was when the government decided to determine who could come in and who couldn't. That was when "quotas" began. And within a decade what did we get, oh yeah, the GREAT DEPRESSION. I mean you think we would learn. Immigration did not become a national issue until 1875, can you say LONG DEPRESSION.

And yes, every single wave of immigration into this country has "changed" America. We are not the Borg. We do not assimilate our immigrants. It is their very presence that protects America from becoming a dictatorship and historically we have embraced both immigrants and their cultures.

The truth is America is unique. America is "special". At least it was, when it was one of the only countries in the entire world with an open border. Hell, that is what made America great. When we throw up barriers along our border and limit those who can enter we become just like every other nation on the planet. That is when we can no longer consider ourselves "special".

You made my point in your first paragraph. People checked in so we knew who was coming in. Even without immigration laws, there was still a process to be followed. And every effort was taken to control the spread of infectious diseases.

Yes, the immigrants made this country was it is today. Sadly, those sneaking in our borders and stealing identities are not having the same positive affect. The terrorists hiding among the refugees are coming to kill, not help us. The ones coming illegally are bringing in diseases. Cases of active TB are increasing among refugees and illegal aliens.

Great, let's go old school. Let's set up some big ass processing centers. We can have dormitories, medical facilities, and even classrooms. Everyone checks in, get's a quick physical, fingerprinted and photographed, maybe some immunizations, and a quick check with Interpool. Then they get issued an ID, an Employer Identification Number, and sent on their way. Welcome to America. We cure the sick, we feed the hungry, and we welcome the refugee. I promise you, we will get back far more that what we have to shell out. Only the short-sighted and selfish would argue otherwise.

And any terrorist that comes in, well I promise you, you will have to wait in line to get ahold of their ass, wait in line behind all those immigrants ticked off that some dimwit terrorist would attempt to screw up their dream.

The history lesson you've provided has been awesome...takes me back to 8th grade and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Things change and humans change. Intelligent people understand that as people and the world evolves so should policy, laws and standards. Remember, people use to talk about how great this Nation was during the slavery era...policy and laws were changed...right?
Further, there is nothing wrong with intuitively selecting who you allow in and to become part of "the team"...right now we allow you in with a heart beat and the ability to breathe oxygen; we know full well that you will be taxpayer and government dependent till the day you die and we still allow you in and throw you on the backs of hard working Americans. Look past your warm and fuzzy feelings, think big picture and 3rd grade economics and you may understand how to get yourself back to TODAYS real world.

Yes, some things change. But core values, core principals--they should be unwavering. Funny, you conservatives are all about changing and adapting when it comes to immigration, not so much when it comes to the second amendment.

And I like that you mention the slaves. You know, they were the very first "illegal immigrants". And what did we do with them? Yeah, some wanted to send them back to Africa, including Lincoln. But we didn't. We made them all citizens instead. That seemed to have worked out pretty well. Why should we expect anything different with our current batch from the South? Reagan gave them amnesty. That turned out pretty well. Why not do it again?

And finally, yes, there is something inherently wrong when a nation is allowed to pick and choose it's citizens. Like I have said before, who was the first group of people the United States excluded from immigration? The very same group of people the tech companies are trying to get here now and the very same group of people the "conservatives" say our current illegal immigrants should be more like. Again, how is it conservatives, who believe the government can't do anything right, suddenly believe it can "intuitively" pick and choose who it governs?

 

[easyt65]

What?

MILLIONS of tax dollars that can be used for Americans....like Michigan residents unable to drink their own water...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And I like that you mention the slaves. You know, they were the very first "illegal immigrants". And what did we do with them? Yeah, some wanted to send them back to Africa, including Lincoln. But we didn't. We made them all citizens instead. That seemed to have worked out pretty well. Why should we expect anything different with our current batch from the South? Reagan gave them amnesty. That turned out pretty well. Why not do it again?

And again...... and again.....and again.....and again until we are as crowded as China.

And what do you consider "worked out pretty well?" For whom besides them?

 

[BrokeLoser]

And I like that you mention the slaves. You know, they were the very first "illegal immigrants". And what did we do with them? Yeah, some wanted to send them back to Africa, including Lincoln. But we didn't. We made them all citizens instead. That seemed to have worked out pretty well. Why should we expect anything different with our current batch from the South? Reagan gave them amnesty. That turned out pretty well. Why not do it again?

And again...... and again.....and again.....and again until we are as crowded as China.

And what do you consider "worked out pretty well?" For whom besides them?

Come on Ray...it's "worked out pretty well" for anyone in law enforcement as the nations police departments have expanded over and over to run the pace of black and hispanic criminals. AND jails and prisons have had to expand to house the huge populations of blacks and hispanic convicts, surely jail and prison personnel has expanded as well. Think of all the new attorneys getting work as public defenders to represent the case loads coming through the system.
Border Patrol and ICE have had to expand their forces.
3.5 in 10 hispanics and nearly 4 in 10 blacks are on on welfare so think of all the new social workers that have jobs thanks to blacks and hispanics. The medical field has grown thanks to the never ending baby making. Diaper manufactures are blowing up due to the population boom.
The Democratic Party has gained strength and expanded voter support through governmental dependency.
Public schools have had to expand to give away more FREE schooling.
Anheuser-Busch is killing it with blacks and hispanics, drug cartels are thriving. Cell phone makers and telecommunication companies are booming thanks to all the free phones King Hussein gave all the blacks and hispanics.

WOW...I could just go on forever...in some bizarre Liberal kind of way and now that I really thinking about it...blacks and hispanics aren't just people...they are their own economy within an economy.
How would we ever make it without them? Imagine all the jobs that would vanish....HAHAHA...listen to how ignorant I sound. Hmmm, Do I sound like anyone on this board?

 

[Vandalshandle]

And I like that you mention the slaves. You know, they were the very first "illegal immigrants". And what did we do with them? Yeah, some wanted to send them back to Africa, including Lincoln. But we didn't. We made them all citizens instead. That seemed to have worked out pretty well. Why should we expect anything different with our current batch from the South? Reagan gave them amnesty. That turned out pretty well. Why not do it again?

And again...... and again.....and again.....and again until we are as crowded as China.

And what do you consider "worked out pretty well?" For whom besides them?

Come on Ray...it's "worked out pretty well" for anyone in law enforcement as the nations police departments have expanded over and over to run the pace of black and hispanic criminals. AND jails and prisons have had to expand to house the huge populations of blacks and hispanic convicts, surely jail and prison personnel has expanded as well. Think of all the new attorneys getting work as public defenders to represent the case loads coming through the system.
Border Patrol and ICE have had to expand their forces.
3.5 in 10 hispanics and nearly 4 in 10 blacks are on on welfare so think of all the new social workers that have jobs thanks to blacks and hispanics. The medical field has grown thanks to the never ending baby making. Diaper manufactures are blowing up due to the population boom.
The Democratic Party has gained strength and expanded voter support through governmental dependency.
Public schools have had to expand to give away more FREE schooling.
Anheuser-Busch is killing it with blacks and hispanics, drug cartels are thriving. Cell phone makers and telecommunication companies are booming thanks to all the free phones King Hussein gave all the blacks and hispanics.

WOW...I could just go on forever...in some bizarre Liberal kind of way and now that I really thinking about it...blacks and hispanics aren't just people...they are their own economy within an economy.
How would we ever make it without them? Imagine all the jobs that would vanish....HAHAHA...listen to how ignorant I sound. Hmmm, Do I sound like anyone on this board?

So many statistics, so few links......

 

[TheDude]

Sometimes they're difficult to understand, yet they provide services requiring communication.

I have to pay more taxes so liberal ideology can entertain their languages. Meanwhile, they pay less in taxes.

English speaking children receive a stunted education, because liberalism is geared toward the lowest common denominator, which is students who can't speak English.

I have to pay more taxes because immigrant households require more welfare. Meanwhile, they pay less in taxes.

It creates a chaotic atmosphere when so many people are unable to communicate, and don't understand or adhere to the law. You get rear-ended by a south american and it's likely you'll never meet them. Even if you did, what do you figure the odds are of they having insurance?

We're over-crowded. We're closing in on nature and I couldn't tell you why or who, but immigration is a culprit. We're far less responsible for simple things like throwing trash into the garbage as opposed a creek.

Runaway immigration has contributed to a reduction in the standard of living for everyone.

The Democrats entertain immigrants for votes. Today's Democrats are a detriment to society and national security.

And finally, they broke the fucking law. Pissing in the park doesn't hurt me either. If they break the law they should pay.

 

[BrokeLoser]

And I like that you mention the slaves. You know, they were the very first "illegal immigrants". And what did we do with them? Yeah, some wanted to send them back to Africa, including Lincoln. But we didn't. We made them all citizens instead. That seemed to have worked out pretty well. Why should we expect anything different with our current batch from the South? Reagan gave them amnesty. That turned out pretty well. Why not do it again?

And again...... and again.....and again.....and again until we are as crowded as China.

And what do you consider "worked out pretty well?" For whom besides them?

Come on Ray...it's "worked out pretty well" for anyone in law enforcement as the nations police departments have expanded over and over to run the pace of black and hispanic criminals. AND jails and prisons have had to expand to house the huge populations of blacks and hispanic convicts, surely jail and prison personnel has expanded as well. Think of all the new attorneys getting work as public defenders to represent the case loads coming through the system.
Border Patrol and ICE have had to expand their forces.
3.5 in 10 hispanics and nearly 4 in 10 blacks are on on welfare so think of all the new social workers that have jobs thanks to blacks and hispanics. The medical field has grown thanks to the never ending baby making. Diaper manufactures are blowing up due to the population boom.
The Democratic Party has gained strength and expanded voter support through governmental dependency.
Public schools have had to expand to give away more FREE schooling.
Anheuser-Busch is killing it with blacks and hispanics, drug cartels are thriving. Cell phone makers and telecommunication companies are booming thanks to all the free phones King Hussein gave all the blacks and hispanics.

WOW...I could just go on forever...in some bizarre Liberal kind of way and now that I really thinking about it...blacks and hispanics aren't just people...they are their own economy within an economy.
How would we ever make it without them? Imagine all the jobs that would vanish....HAHAHA...listen to how ignorant I sound. Hmmm, Do I sound like anyone on this board?

So many statistics, so few links......

A little tiny website can be found at www.google.com with all the data you need to yank you from your desperate state of denial.