What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Natural Citizen]

That's when you'll see a second amendment solution, is that really what you want?

And The Federalist (numbers 28 by Hamilton and 46 by Madison) is clear to the point that the people have that authority. The moral duty, to be clear.

 

[protectionist]

People prove their citizenship when they register. It is a phony crisis. The only two illegal voters caught were for Trump LOL.

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

FALSE! I registered recently, and showed no proof of citizenship at all. Liberals try to claim the obvious is phony. Only thing phony (obviously) is their claims.

Won't matter. Trump will get re-elected in 2020, and will get rid of all the illegal aliens, and their illegal VOTES.

 

[OKTexas]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

It's been proven it is in accordance with a federal court order, yet you refuse to acknowledge that FACT. You're starting to sound like the broken record Matthew.


.

I really don't care who I sound like to *you*. Agencies have ALWAYS had discretion in these matters. You refuse to acknowledge that.

Wrong, the courts took that away. Deal with it.


.

 

[Mac1958]

Coyote, out of curiosity - now that we're 2,000+ responses in, have you received many actual answers to the question posed in your thread title?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So then it somehow becomes our problem, right? Why didn't they just stay in Mexico if that's what they feared?

Yes, it does become our problem when they cross our boarders. Mexico does send them back and they grant asylum to only 1 in 20 that apply. With the deteriorating relations between the US and Mexico, they're probably busing them to the US boarder so they'll be our problem.

They are not our problem, Mexico is our problem. It's no different than if we sent these people to the Canadian border. We did it to them. We should not be allowing them to trample across our land into Canada.

Hate to break your bubble, but Mexico does not send these people to the US. Although Mexico is a lot tougher on illegals than we are, a lot get through and they probably don't do much to stop them.

Mexico could certainly do a better job stopping these people in their country so they do not reach our boarder. However, why should they do that? Exactly what is the US doing for Mexico other than insulting and threatening them daily. US Mexican relations are the worst they been in decades, thanks to Trump so I certainly wouldn't expect any help from them on immigration or drug enforcement.

Is that what you think? Then how did our media pickup on the fact this current crop of people were on their way here two weeks before they arrived?

Of course Mexico allows them to come here; they always have. They know why they are coming here and give them their blessing.

Mexico allows them to come here, and then they are our problem. They bring kids with them, and then they are our problem. They disappear and never show up for court, and then they are our problem. Gangs form and sell drugs, and then that is our problem.

Solution to our problem? Close the southern border down completely. I'm sick of problems invading our country and then we have to spend the money and find a solution to those problems.

It's pretty hard not to notice hundreds of people marching across the country headed toward the US boarder.

You don't seem to get it. It is not the responsibility of Mexico to protect our boarders. Does the US stop people headed for the Mexican boarder or the Canadian border?

You're being incredible xenophobia. You consider Honduran families fleeing from violence and seeking refuge as invaders when the problem is not of their making. You lay the blame for gangs selling drugs on immigrants when the real problem is the US huge demand for illegal drugs.

If you're really tired of this shit, then you should be supporting a plan that will actually work regardless of who is in the white house or which party is controlling congress. Trump can't possible come anywhere close to deporting 12 million undocumented immigrants during his term in office. The deportations he's doing now is barely keeping up with the inflow of immigrants. Without support from both parties, nothing is going to change.

But you're never going to get support from both parties--only one. The Democrats goal is to get as many of these immigrants into this country as possible. Why do you suppose they are fighting to keep their sanctuary cities and states? Why do you suppose they stopped Kate's Law? Why do you suppose they are really against the wall? Does this sound like a group of people wanting to stop illegal immigration?

If the US allowed a band of Mexicans to cross our country into Canada, then yes, the US is responsible for not stopping them long before they hit the Canadian border. We should have stopped them at the Mexican border.

 

[Kondor3]

...It's pretty hard not to notice hundreds of people marching across the country headed toward the US boarder...

Yep. The Mexicans gave them a "pass through" rather than "eat" them, themselves.

...You don't seem to get it. It is not the responsibility of Mexico to protect our boarders. Does the US stop people headed for the Mexican boarder or the Canadian border?...

True. The Mexicans dump their own riff-raff on our side of the border, so there's no reason to believe they'll stop other Central American riff-raff from passing through.

...You're being incredible xenophobia...

It is not xenophobic to insist upon the integrity of our national borders and the sovereignty of our soil.

...You consider Honduran families fleeing from violence and seeking refuge as invaders when the problem is not of their making...

1. families, and truckloads of singles outside a family framework
2. doesn't matter that they're fleeing from violence
3. doesn't matter that they're seeking refuge
4. they are, indeed, invaders
5. doesn't matter that the problem is not of their making
6. not our circus, not our monkeys - tough $hit - next time, try going south rather than north

...You lay the blame for gangs selling drugs on immigrants when the real problem is the US huge demand for illegal drugs...

There is a kernel of truth to that; time to give the cops authority to shoot inner-city drug dealers on sight, without warning.

...If you're really tired of this shit, then you should be supporting a plan that will actually work regardless of who is in the white house or which party is controlling congress...

Trouble is, neither side is to be trusted; Pubs want the near-slave labor, Dems want the grateful future voters; neither side is acting in America's best interests.

...Trump can't possible come anywhere close to deporting 12 million undocumented immigrants during his term in office...

True. Time to crucify a few hundred Big Employers of Illegal Aliens, metaphorically, in the law courts, in order to put the brakes on Illegal Labor in this country.

...The deportations he's doing now is barely keeping up with the inflow of immigrants. Without support from both parties, nothing is going to change.

True. Best to circumvent Congress and close down the entire Southern Border; with whatever combination of non-lethal and lethal force is required.

 

[OKTexas]

People prove their citizenship when they register. It is a phony crisis. The only two illegal voters caught were for Trump LOL.

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

FALSE! I registered recently, and showed no proof of citizenship at all. Liberals try to claim the obvious is phony. Only thing phony (obviously) is their claims.

Won't matter. Trump will get re-elected in 2020, and will get rid of all the illegal aliens, and their illegal VOTES.

In fact the courts have made it illegal to require proof of citizenship to register, they say the feds rule and they only require you to say you're a citizen.


.

 

[OKTexas]

Coyote, out of curiosity - now that we're 2,000+ responses in, have you received many actual answers to the question posed in your thread title?

The answer is obvious, what ever the hell it takes. PERIOD


.

 

[Flopper]

Marijuana.

Oh. Well, the drug war is another thing that we need to end. Agreed.

The drug war is just another in a long line of wars that we've lost.

Not really. That would be like saying the war on murder failed or the war on theft. Laws don't eliminate crime in our country, it controls it to some degree.

Ive never heard of a war of murder. A war on drug, yes. Anyways, we haven't won a war since WWII, and even then, we needed help.

Well......I don't believe there was ever a war on women either. Catchy title, but no real wars in reality.

In the past couple of years a few people I knew (and related to) died because of drugs. Legalizing it just isn't a good idea. One time my apartment was robbed by drug addicts, another time a drug addict tenant of mine nearly burned my house down, it's just too much of a problem.

Legalizing all dope would make matters five times worse.

Not sure about that. Read about Portugal after 10 years of decriminalization of all drugs. With the illegal drug business estimated at 40 billion a year and growing rapidly, we will reach a point where we will have no choice. I'm not in favor of it but we're running out of options. The war on drugs was lost decades ago. There is no way we can control the growing use of illegal drugs.
Ten Years Ago Portugal Decriminalized All Drugs. What Happened Next? | The Fix

 

[Cosmos]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

On the topic of welfare, while I'm thinking of it. I want to be clear about that. I see nothing wrong with a welfare program at the State level. Nor did the Framers for that matter. The States do have the power to do that and really, it's the moral thing to do to help their citizens if they need it.

But the federal welfare, no. They lack just power to do that.

State governments should be ended. When Democrats get control...

The Democrats are going to amend the US Constitution?

 

[francoHFW]

That would be a start LOL. But according to GOP employers, also communism LOL... We need Democrats in total control for about 12 years at least. They should disband your bought off brainwashed party....

You would shrivel up and blow away if you didn't have your hate for the GOP, be careful what you wish for.


.

Yes I know you are brainwashed about democratic Party evil and Corruption. With no evidence of course. GOP corruption and crime are well documented. Their giveaway to the greedy idiot corrupt rich and outrageous propaganda has ruined the rest and the country the last 35 years.

Success envy, that's sooooooooooooooooooo you. ROFLMFAO


.

I have no problem with Rich Democrats,, just low life greedy idiot lying thieving or just playing greedy GOP rich, super duper. Change the channel.

OH OKAY, so you're just a plain old hypocrite.


.

Rich Democrats want to be taxed their fair share, for the good of the country, doop.

 

[francoHFW]

On the topic of welfare, while I'm thinking of it. I want to be clear about that. I see nothing wrong with a welfare program at the State level. Nor did the Framers for that matter. The States do have the power to do that and really, it's the moral thing to do to help their citizens if they need it.

But the federal welfare, no. They lack just power to do that.

State governments should be ended. When Democrats get control...

The Democrats are going to amend the US Constitution?

That is my Theory. Won't happen. Just like justice truth American Way

 

[Natural Citizen]

Not sure about that. Read about Portugal after 10 years of decriminalization of all drugs. With the illegal drug business estimated at 40 billion a year and growing rapidly, we will reach a point where we will have no choice. I'm not in favor of it but we're running out of options. The war on drugs was lost decades ago. There is no way we can control the growing use of illegal drugs.
Ten Years Ago Portugal Decriminalized All Drugs. What Happened Next? | The Fix

There's possibly a minor flipside to legalizing drugs.

The cartels will see their cash cow dwindle away. It is possible, likely even, that those drug wars will move across our border and we might see Americans killed in their own country if the cartels see legalization as competition.

Of course, that's conjecture. But legitimate conjecture, I think.

 

[Natural Citizen]

If they do any crime armed with illegal guns, give them 5 years. 1 year for possession of same.

You're missing the point, Franco. Your federal database and national id just became moot.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh. Well, the drug war is another thing that we need to end. Agreed.

The drug war is just another in a long line of wars that we've lost.

Not really. That would be like saying the war on murder failed or the war on theft. Laws don't eliminate crime in our country, it controls it to some degree.

Ive never heard of a war of murder. A war on drug, yes. Anyways, we haven't won a war since WWII, and even then, we needed help.

Well......I don't believe there was ever a war on women either. Catchy title, but no real wars in reality.

In the past couple of years a few people I knew (and related to) died because of drugs. Legalizing it just isn't a good idea. One time my apartment was robbed by drug addicts, another time a drug addict tenant of mine nearly burned my house down, it's just too much of a problem.

Legalizing all dope would make matters five times worse.

People die because illegal drugs are full of poison. They should at least legalize methadone and other healthier alternatives in programs and treatments. It is now totally out of control. GOP policy Law and Order Nanny state is a disgrace, along with our default GOP immigration policy, Mental Health non-system, living wage not!, Giant tax cuts for the rich and service cuts for everyone else, b******character assassination propaganda machine 4 haters like you. 35 years of regression and garbage. Great job!

You are too brainwashed to discuss this issue; you're too far gone already. Everything in the entire world is the GOP's fault in your tiny mind.

 

[francoHFW]

The drug war is just another in a long line of wars that we've lost.

Not really. That would be like saying the war on murder failed or the war on theft. Laws don't eliminate crime in our country, it controls it to some degree.

Ive never heard of a war of murder. A war on drug, yes. Anyways, we haven't won a war since WWII, and even then, we needed help.

Well......I don't believe there was ever a war on women either. Catchy title, but no real wars in reality.

In the past couple of years a few people I knew (and related to) died because of drugs. Legalizing it just isn't a good idea. One time my apartment was robbed by drug addicts, another time a drug addict tenant of mine nearly burned my house down, it's just too much of a problem.

Legalizing all dope would make matters five times worse.

People die because illegal drugs are full of poison. They should at least legalize methadone and other healthier alternatives in programs and treatments. It is now totally out of control. GOP policy Law and Order Nanny state is a disgrace, along with our default GOP immigration policy, Mental Health non-system, living wage not!, Giant tax cuts for the rich and service cuts for everyone else, b******character assassination propaganda machine 4 haters like you. 35 years of regression and garbage. Great job!

You are too brainwashed to discuss this issue; you're too far gone already. Everything in the entire world is the GOP's fault in your tiny mind.

Just since Teddy Roosevelt... Twenties, wrecked League of Nations and World economy, 30s isolationist GOP let Hitler and Japanese run wild, since then stupid Wars and covert anti democracy, then Reagan ism Wrecking our country and the Middle East.

 

[francoHFW]

The drug war is just another in a long line of wars that we've lost.

Not really. That would be like saying the war on murder failed or the war on theft. Laws don't eliminate crime in our country, it controls it to some degree.

Ive never heard of a war of murder. A war on drug, yes. Anyways, we haven't won a war since WWII, and even then, we needed help.

Well......I don't believe there was ever a war on women either. Catchy title, but no real wars in reality.

In the past couple of years a few people I knew (and related to) died because of drugs. Legalizing it just isn't a good idea. One time my apartment was robbed by drug addicts, another time a drug addict tenant of mine nearly burned my house down, it's just too much of a problem.

Legalizing all dope would make matters five times worse.

People die because illegal drugs are full of poison. They should at least legalize methadone and other healthier alternatives in programs and treatments. It is now totally out of control. GOP policy Law and Order Nanny state is a disgrace, along with our default GOP immigration policy, Mental Health non-system, living wage not!, Giant tax cuts for the rich and service cuts for everyone else, b******character assassination propaganda machine 4 haters like you. 35 years of regression and garbage. Great job!

You are too brainwashed to discuss this issue; you're too far gone already. Everything in the entire world is the GOP's fault in your tiny mind.

Funny how the whole rest of the world disagrees with your alternate facts and b*******policies, super duper.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We need EDUCATED immigration, not just maids and fruit pickers.

No, actually we don't.

More Unskilled Workers, Please

Unskilled Immigrants Do Not Harm Americans

The Danger From Low-Skilled Immigrants: Not Having Them

Read the articles, I could pull out quotes from them but I get the feeling I'm already wasting my time linking the articles.

Other than that treating people like cattle is inhumane no matter how you want to make excuses for it.

Sorry, I don't believe in open borders. And I don't believe in filling the country with unskilled workers. I didn't say we didn't need ANY, just not a free-for-all.

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Hmmm. If we need unskilled workers so bad, I guess the 3.8% unemployed in our country must be skilled workers.

We need unskilled workers because we don't have enough of our own and as our population ages the need is only going to be greater. I've already provided links but you chose to ignore them and instead rely on your own xenophobia.

Yes, that's what it is, xenophobia. You must be desperate to use that worn out card.

 

[francoHFW]

If they do any crime armed with illegal guns, give them 5 years. 1 year for possession of same.

You're missing the point, Franco. Your federal database and national id just became moot.

It would help if intelligent policies were passed LOL!