What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[danielpalos]

Let's face it, the United States is preferable to 90% of the countries on Earth, including a lot of the ones in Europe. Personally, I think it's better than any other country on Earth.

Doesn't mean we're obligated to let everyone else on Earth live here.

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

Being against the wall is their declaration for open borders.
Amnesty is their declaration for open borders.
What the fuck do you think borders are for?

Jurisdiction for Commerce purposes.

 

[Slyhunter]

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

Oh come on with the semantics already. They don't use the term Open Borders like they don't use the term socialists or liberals, but we know what they mean.

Open border is a border that enables free movement of people between different nations with few or no restrictions on movement. Most open boarders are found within the EU that require no immigration documents to cross between EU countries. Democrats are not even suggesting this. I don't know of any Democrat who advocates that.

Suggesting that we need more immigrants in the US or that undocumented immigrants should be treated fairly and humanely, that young children should not be taken from their mothers, or that a paths to citizenship should be created is still nothing even close to open borders. And that is not semantics. Saying democrats want our boarders open is an out right lie.

Let me remind you that more border security was added under Obama than any other president. He also holds the record for deportation.
Furthermore the only president to have carried out amenity for undocumented immigrants was Reagan.

Saying that we can't keep out the riffraff is for open borders.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

Oh come on with the semantics already. They don't use the term Open Borders like they don't use the term socialists or liberals, but we know what they mean.

Open border is a border that enables free movement of people between different nations with few or no restrictions on movement. Most open boarders are found within the EU that require no immigration documents to cross between EU countries. Democrats are not even suggesting this. I don't know of any Democrat who advocates that.

Suggesting that we need more immigrants in the US or that undocumented immigrants should be treated fairly and humanely, that young children should not be taken from their mothers, or that a paths to citizenship should be created is still nothing even close to open borders. And that is not semantics. Saying democrats want our boarders open is an out right lie.

Let me remind you that more border security was added under Obama than any other president. He also holds the record for deportation.
Furthermore the only president to have carried out amenity for undocumented immigrants was Reagan.

This is true, and later Reagan admitted it was a grave mistake on his part.

The Democrats are fighting hard against a border wall, why?

The Democrats stopped Kate's Law, why?

The Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to keep their sanctuary cities, and now states, why?

If that's not open borders, it's the next best thing.

The only reason DumBama had record deportations is because the definition of deportation changed under Bush. There is a path to citizenship already in this country. In fact, we naturalized over 750,000 in 2016, and prior years were very similar. The problem is that there are so many people that want to get into the US that it's a long wait, and we can't let more people in because as it is, they are not assimilating. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country.

 

[MaryL]

All criminals should be treated humanely. I concur totally. We have children taken into custody of child protective services every freeking day, and nobody bats a freekin eyebrow. That is the very definition of "Humane". Abusive or neglectful parents should have their offspring taken away and put into better hands. Same with illegal aliens that sneak in here, wow. They knew the risks of getting caught. Seeing how abusive Mexicans can be, I am just not seeing this as a bad thing. I am bemused at this topic. It's like a big fat nothing. Just like chicken little saying the sky is falling. Accept it isn't.

 

[Flopper]

again, illegal immigration is at a 30 year low and we don't have that many people trying to get in. That you think the small amount of people we are taking in is a problem is really more about you than them.

We can solve our problems just fine... we just refuse to.

You are correct, but the Democrats stopped us from building that wall.

Actually, the undocumented are part of that 320 million, and we kind of need immigrants because White People aren't even reproducing at replacement rates. More of us are dying than being born.

So we become a less populated country. Why is that such a bad thing to the left? Oh, that's right, you were told by your puppet masters it was a bad thing, but have no explanation as to why.

The US population in 1970 was 205 million people. That's more than a third less of what we have today. What was so devastating when we only had that size of population?

6.1% unemployment
5.6% inflation
Country was in recession
Thousands of Americans dying in Vietnam
Not that any of that has anything to do with the size of the population.

The problem with reducing the population by 1/3 today is that taxes would not go down by a 1/3 but more important, consumption would go down by a third, retail sales, home buying, etc. We would have 1/3 the tax payers to pay the interest on the debt and other expenses such as defense spending which would not decline with population. This would translate into a shrinking economy and lenders demanding high interest rates on goverment debt.

Some nations could handle a shrinking population fairly well but not the US because our economy is based growing consumption and an every increasing capacity to carry the national debt.

Well with a third less consumption, we would have a third less jobs needed to be filled. These immigrants cost us taxpayers billions of dollars every year, so much for your concern about our debt.

And the size our economy would drop by over 4 trillion dollars, worst yet our prospects for future growth would also drop leading to higher interest on the national debt and 1/3 less people to pay it. In short America would become a third rate economic power behind both China and the EU.

 

[MaryL]

I am so angry about this...I feel like taking up the cause, and going to local homeless camps interviewing and documenting their stories, because the so called "media" ignores them like minutiae and flotsam and trash. But instead, focuses on illegal aliens and all their sob stories. Somebody has to step up for the America's wretched poor yearning to breathe free...

 

[OODA_Loop]

I am so angry about this...I feel like taking up the cause, and going to local homeless camps interviewing and documented their stories, because the so called "media" ignores them like minutiae and flotsam and trash. But instead, focuses on illegal aliens and all their sob stories. Somebody has to step up for the America's wretched poor yearning to breathe free...

Let them take the jobs illegal immigrants are taking.

 

[Flopper]

All criminals should be treated humanely. I concur totally. We have children taken into custody of child protective services every freeking day, and nobody bats a freekin eyebrow. That is the very definition of "Humane". Abusive or neglectful parents should have their offspring taken away and put into better hands. Same with illegal aliens that sneak in here, wow. They knew the risks of getting caught. Seeing how abusive Mexicans can be, I am just not seeing this as a bad thing. I am bemused at this topic. It's like a big fat nothing.

Most children are taken from their parents because the parent is abusive or fails to protect the child. It is pretty hard to argue that a parent that takes their children away from a dangerous environment and travels over a thousand miles to seek safety is either abusive or non-protective. Yet that is exactly how these parents are being treated by the US government.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door, except if you're from a shithole country.

 

[MaryL]

I am so angry about this...I feel like taking up the cause, and going to local homeless camps interviewing and documented their stories, because the so called "media" ignores them like minutiae and flotsam and trash. But instead, focuses on illegal aliens and all their sob stories. Somebody has to step up for the America's wretched poor yearning to breathe free...

Let them take the jobs illegal immigrants are taking.

I doubt that too many of the truly dispossessed Americans by illegals want to parade that around on the internet . MMM, no probably not. They can't afford luxuries like the internet, anyway. And they are the ones that specifically need an ombudsman, a voice. Illegal aliens have the popular Mafia, er media, my bad. I don't know what else to add to that. We need to speak up here.

 

[Flopper]

I am so angry about this...I feel like taking up the cause, and going to local homeless camps interviewing and documented their stories, because the so called "media" ignores them like minutiae and flotsam and trash. But instead, focuses on illegal aliens and all their sob stories. Somebody has to step up for the America's wretched poor yearning to breathe free...

Let them take the jobs illegal immigrants are taking.

Because you're homeless does not mean you don't work, another big myth.

 

[dudmuck]

I am agnostic, so? That is a beautiful sentiment. Too bad these illegal aliens don't mirror that sentiment. Instead they remind me Mexican version of "Anschluss". Look it up. And you are sounding like a gullible child wearing your heart on your sleeve. We REALLY need more folks like YOU, that would make the world a better place. For Mexicans.

It would be Anschluss if Enrique Nieto rode into the US in his military convoy. But Germany and Austria are ethnically identical.
But i get your thinking. Its similar to the way Germans of the 1930's though of the jews at the time.

 

[MaryL]

I am so angry about this...I feel like taking up the cause, and going to local homeless camps interviewing and documented their stories, because the so called "media" ignores them like minutiae and flotsam and trash. But instead, focuses on illegal aliens and all their sob stories. Somebody has to step up for the America's wretched poor yearning to breathe free...

Let them take the jobs illegal immigrants are taking.

Because you're homeless does not mean you don't work, another big myth.

Well, and here we go...Um this skews to the exploitive side of the debate. House said "people lie", boy howdy do they ever. But that doesn't make huge growing camps of American poor living in tents go away. And their poor kids, makes me weepy and all. Mexicans lie about their status, and even use their offspring as hedges. Wow, that takes being cynical up a notch or two.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

again, illegal immigration is at a 30 year low and we don't have that many people trying to get in. That you think the small amount of people we are taking in is a problem is really more about you than them.

We can solve our problems just fine... we just refuse to.

You are correct, but the Democrats stopped us from building that wall.

Actually, the undocumented are part of that 320 million, and we kind of need immigrants because White People aren't even reproducing at replacement rates. More of us are dying than being born.

So we become a less populated country. Why is that such a bad thing to the left? Oh, that's right, you were told by your puppet masters it was a bad thing, but have no explanation as to why.

The US population in 1970 was 205 million people. That's more than a third less of what we have today. What was so devastating when we only had that size of population?

6.1% unemployment
5.6% inflation
Country was in recession
Thousands of Americans dying in Vietnam
Not that any of that has anything to do with the size of the population.

The problem with reducing the population by 1/3 today is that taxes would not go down by a 1/3 but more important, consumption would go down by a third, retail sales, home buying, etc. We would have 1/3 the tax payers to pay the interest on the debt and other expenses such as defense spending which would not decline with population. This would translate into a shrinking economy and lenders demanding high interest rates on goverment debt.

Some nations could handle a shrinking population fairly well but not the US because our economy is based growing consumption and an every increasing capacity to carry the national debt.

Well with a third less consumption, we would have a third less jobs needed to be filled. These immigrants cost us taxpayers billions of dollars every year, so much for your concern about our debt.

And the size our economy would drop by over 4 trillion dollars, worst yet our prospects for future growth would also drop leading to higher interest on the national debt and 1/3 less people to pay it. In short America would become a third rate economic power behind both China and the EU.

Keep taking these illegals in, and we will get there faster than you think.

Perhaps if we ever faced the situation you imagine, we would actually do something about it. Stop funding Planned Parenthood, stop funding NPR, PBS. Open Secrets has a litany of wasteful spending that goes on every year.

Then we have the welfare people; those who don't want to work or work part-time. We need much more oversight on those people. Last year, over 42 million people were on food stamps. Now for the longest time, you on the left told us it was because of their inability to find full-time work. Or you said, they were working lower wage jobs. But a lot of these people only work part-time to stay on the program.

I have these HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. OUR TAX DOLLARS pay for them to live here instead of lower priced housing in the inner-city. The only question I have is......why?

When I get up for work in the morning, their four cars are sitting there. If I pass by my house during work, the cars are sitting there. When I get home from work, the cars are sitting there. The only time those cars move is after 5:00 pm. And then they are coming home at 11:00, 12:00 or 1:00 in the morning drunk as a skunk setting off their car alarms waking up us working people.

Two of the adults in the home are so fat they waddle when they walk. They throw parties here and invite all their lowlife friends for a BBQ; probably food bought with our tax dollars.

There are many things we can do to avoid bringing in third world people that will turn us into a third world country given enough time.

 

[MaryL]

I am agnostic, so? That is a beautiful sentiment. Too bad these illegal aliens don't mirror that sentiment. Instead they remind me Mexican version of "Anschluss". Look it up. And you are sounding like a gullible child wearing your heart on your sleeve. We REALLY need more folks like YOU, that would make the world a better place. For Mexicans.

It would be Anschluss if Enrique Nieto rode into the US in his military convoy. But Germany and Austria are ethnically identical.
But i get your thinking. Its similar to the way Germans of the 1930's though of the jews at the time.

From my petit perspective Mexicans think they can invade America, because well, so on and so forth. Being diplomatic and all I stop there. Now , given modern perspective, and various sanctuary cities, where might have they got that assumption from? Winky wink? I ask myself, what procedures, what amendments , How did any city anywhere become a sanctuary for illegal aliens above and beyond the collective voting process? Anyone get to actually VOTE if you wanted your city/state to ignore immigration law? What subtle thing did I miss? Even if you are liberal all day long, that has to puzzle even you...S'plain dat to me. I am a dumb plebe, excuse me.

 

[MaryL]

Well, Trump is a great whipping boy, take that, WHAPP. Whapp! Thing about that, he's the skeleton in the political closet: People used the election process fair and square. So...speaking of the political process. and not to mention the 800 pound gorilla in the room: NOBODY but NOBODY ever got to vote on sanctuary cities. It just totally taken out of our hands. Such a huge issue totally taken out of the voters hands. Why aren't liberals showing their outage at that?

 

[Kondor3]

...The effects of a declining population can be devastating for a country such as the US which has borrowed extensively counting on repayment by younger generations.

Not to worry. If we get in over our heads, financially, we simply default on what we owe the Chinese. Let the population decline begin.

 

[JoeB131]

uh, no.
You should learn how to use search engines

Your own source said it was signed by LBJ.

News flash... LBJ was a Democrat.

Al Gore's father was one of the ones filibustering the bill.

Um, so what? So did Barry Goldwater. Guess which one of those guys was the candidate for President.

More Democrats signed on to it than Republicans.

The reality- Democrats made a decision to end segregation once and for all. The Southern Segregationists walked off and joined the GOP.

 

[JoeB131]

Rich people are living longer and having less babies. Poor people keep begetting like there's no tomorrow. It's ass fucking backwards to what it should be.

Again, you are confusing "rich" with "White" and "Poor" with "minority".

 

[Cellblock2429]

uh, no.
You should learn how to use search engines

Your own source said it was signed by LBJ.

News flash... LBJ was a Democrat.

Al Gore's father was one of the ones filibustering the bill.

Um, so what? So did Barry Goldwater. Guess which one of those guys was the candidate for President.

More Democrats signed on to it than Republicans.

The reality- Democrats made a decision to end segregation once and for all. The Southern Segregationists walked off and joined the GOP.

/----/ Gpldwater never filibustered the CRA or VRA. That was a democRAT deed. And provide the names of democRATs who switched to the GOP.
Civil Rights Filibuster Ended

​

At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, DEMOCRAT Senator Robert KKK Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Senate whips Hubert Humphrey (D-MN) and Thomas Kuchel (R-CA), the bill's floor managers, concluded they had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.

The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilities (including private businesses offering public services—such as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters); and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.

As DEMOCRAT Senator Robert KKK Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others—150 of them—vied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.

Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"

Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only five times in the 47 years since the cloture rule was established had the Senate agreed to cloture for any measure.

The clerk proceeded to call the roll. When he reached "Mr. Engle," there was no response. A brain tumor had robbed California's mortally ill Clair Engle of his ability to speak. Slowly lifting a crippled arm, he pointed to his eye, thereby signaling his affirmative vote. Few of those who witnessed this heroic gesture ever forgot it. When Delaware's John Williams provided the decisive 67th vote, Majority Leader Mike Mansfield exclaimed, "That's it!"; Richard Russell slumped; and Hubert Humphrey beamed. With six wavering senators providing a four-vote victory margin, the final tally stood at 71 to 29. Nine days later the Senate approved the act itself—producing one of the 20th century's towering legislative achievements.

 

[JoeB131]

Right, it couldn't have had anything to do with the people occupying these countries, could it? Of course not. A self-hating white would never admit to such a thing.

Well, before the Europeans went over there trying to steal the Oil... er, taking on the White Man's Burden, they pretty much minded their own business, didn't they?

I hate to keep educating you, so I'll give you a hint why it went down: look at the common reason why property values go down in all the other places across the US. I'm sure that will keep you up all nigh

Because they are shitholes? Hey, guy, I've been to Cleveland, it's a shithole. That's why your property values went down. 25 years ago, I lived in a place called Cicero, IL. This town went from majority white to majority Hispanic while I lived there, but before i sold my property to a Hispanic family, it's value doubled. Then your boy Bush crashed the economy, and the property was worth 25% less than what I sold it for in 2000.

Who ran up the debt more than Hussein? Trump has only been in office for less than two years. And who led Congress during the Clinton years? Who brought us a balanced budget and a reduction of debt?

Guy, you can come up with all sorts of excuses, but the fact is, the deficit always goes down when Democrats are in charge, and it always goes up when Republicans are in charge. Democrats make sure the rich pay their fair share, Republicans can't wait to give away the store to their donors.

Nobody stole anything from you. We won elections fair and square, the same way every other election was won before in history.

Um, no, every other election involved 'the guy who got the most votes wins". IN two of those three states, there was active suppression of minority voters. You stole the election, deal with it. And you totally did it for the wrong guy, he's going to destroy your party in the end.