What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Ray From Cleveland]

GENOCIDAL , who knows , import a fifth column , GENOCIDAL , who knows what the future holds Ray .

I think I know and it's obvious when people vote. DumBama and gang was a shot in the arm of what Socialism/ Communism is all about, and it left a bad taste in our mouths. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of problems with the Republicans as well, but at least we're doing something to fix our party and send a message at the same time.

I also believe that leftist brainwashing is finally starting to fade away; not totally rejected just yet, but in the right direction. More and more people are starting to scratch their heads at Democrat policy and coming to the realization they are all phonies. They always have an ulterior motive when they make policies and laws.

For instance most people understand that it's un-American for leftist entities to force people to give them money. The SC ruled that is not acceptable, and Piglosi ran out there saying how it was an attack on the working people. The right thing (in the mind of a leftist) is force people to pay unions money even though they are not part of the union. Democrats are upset because much of that money comes back to them in campaign contributions. It was a money laundering scheme all along.

 

[pismoe]

THANKYOU , ---------------- as regards Unions i have no problem with Union in private industry but i want to see 'public employee Unions' gone . ----------------- just a comment Ray .

 

[Flopper]

...again, illegal immigration is at a 30 year low...

That may be true, but (a) the damage is done, (b) we have 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens here now, to deal with and (c) we must prevent that from happening again.

...and we don't have that many people trying to get in...

That may be true, but (a) the damage is done, (b) we have 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens here now, to deal with and (c) we must prevent that from happening again.

...That you think the small amount of people we are taking in is a problem is really more about you than them....

That may be true, but (a) the damage is done, (b) we have 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens here now, to deal with and (c) we must prevent that from happening again.

...We can solve our problems just fine... we just refuse to...

True. What is happening now, however, makes for an amusing and effective down-payment on the entire course of "treatment" for this particular infestation.

...Actually, the undocumented are part of that 320 million...

320,000,000 - 12,000,000 = 308,000,000 = more (of everything) for us

...and we kind of need immigrants because White People aren't even reproducing at replacement rates. More of us are dying than being born.

Nonsense. Time to thin-out the herd a bit anyway. Wake us up if-and-when we slide below the 250,000,000 mark. Barring that... let the population decline begin.

The effects of a declining population can be devastating for a country such as the US which has borrowed extensively counting on repayment by younger generations.

 

[JoeB131]

50 years of Republican Racism?
Who voted for civil rights? Who tried to filibuster it?

Um, actually, it was a coalition of Republicans and Northern Democrats... but Barry Goldwater opposed it, and he's the guy you nominated.

and you've been nominating racists ever since.

That's exactly it, it happened a long time ago when immigrants were needed to build this country. That time is long past and it's time to stop people from coming here.

That happens to be your opinion... I'm totally good with immigrants coming here.

The funny thing is only some left Europe and most stayed and fought to make their lands a better place too. And now minorities are trying to sneak into many parts of Europe. So what does that tell you?

That 100 years of the west fucking with the Middle East has blown back on the west.

The only person that thinks I'm a loser is you, and you don't even really know me. When Democrats get in power and destroy things for good people, you don't blame the Democrats, you blame the people they attacked.

Um, buddy, you are a loser. and frankly, the last five recessions have been on Republican watches, not Democrats.

Well guess what Joe, my property value didn't decrease by half because of people like me. If people like me were still around, my property value would be 50% higher than when I bought it 25 years ago.

Well, no, it decreased by half because the property rates were overvalued and the bubble popped.

If it's one thing about you people, it's that you never learn anything. Make the same mistakes over and over expecting different results each time because doing the same stupid things makes you feel tingly all over.

Okay, let's look at that.

Bush 41 caused a recession. - Clinton got elected and fixed it.

Then you guys stole the election for Bush-43. He caused two more recessions and crashed the economy.

Obama fixed it...

You guys stole an election for Trump. He's starting a trade war, running up the debt...

So why do you keep doing the same stupid things?

 

[JoeB131]

Then you're in luck, because we have only a little over 40 million retired now out of a 320 million population.

There will always be old people, middle aged people, and young people regardless of the size of country. Baby boomers will die off and the proportion will go back to normal.

Um, no, we won't. People are living longer and having less babies.

White people aren't even reproducing at replacement rates.

 

[JoeB131]

Some immigration does that. Those that come in the border illegally don't. They get on welfare, sell drugs, join gangs, etc.
We can't shut immigration down to 0 and we shouldn't. But we should seal the border so only the ones we want get in.

Since most of them find jobs, somebody wanted them in.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I don't want outside competition for the resources available for me in my environment.

It is programmed into every organism.

 

[danielpalos]

Of course. When you look at these shit hole countries as Trump was "accused" of saying, is it the land or the people that made them shit holes? It's the people. So now the leftist idea is to bring those people here.

You mean like Ireland, Italy and Poland, all of which were "shitholes" when people were trying to get away from them? Oh, but it's okay, these people were white and it happened a long time ago.

The left has moved lowlifes in our country to better areas, and all that does is ruin better areas. If you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, and mix that with 1/4 cup of stale curdled milk, you only have one thing, and that's a cup of bad milk.

Again, guy, maybe you're the curdled milk. I mean, you are kind of a loser, I bet most people wouldn't want to live next store to you with your gun fetish and bigotry...

But funny thing, I kind of like living in a free country. The thing is, you've enjoyed white privilage your entire life, and you are STILL a loser who won't even try to get a better job or improve himself. So let's talk about what really scares you, people of color getting the same opportunities that you've had, and doing better than you.

We can't allow in everyone from shithole countries that want a better life. It would turn America into a shit hole country.
How many more times do I have to post this before you finally watch it and get a clue?

Let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror; they Only create refugees for the Right Wing, to complain about.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't want outside competition for the resources available for me in my environment.

It is programmed into every organism.

Do you subscribe to Capitalism? If you do, then we should be Making money off of foreign labor not Losing money on foreign labor.

 

[Slyhunter]

50 years of Republican Racism?
Who voted for civil rights? Who tried to filibuster it?

Um, actually, it was a coalition of Republicans and Northern Democrats... but Barry Goldwater opposed it, and he's the guy you nominated.

and you've been nominating racists ever since.

That's exactly it, it happened a long time ago when immigrants were needed to build this country. That time is long past and it's time to stop people from coming here.

That happens to be your opinion... I'm totally good with immigrants coming here.

The funny thing is only some left Europe and most stayed and fought to make their lands a better place too. And now minorities are trying to sneak into many parts of Europe. So what does that tell you?

That 100 years of the west fucking with the Middle East has blown back on the west.

The only person that thinks I'm a loser is you, and you don't even really know me. When Democrats get in power and destroy things for good people, you don't blame the Democrats, you blame the people they attacked.

Um, buddy, you are a loser. and frankly, the last five recessions have been on Republican watches, not Democrats.

Well guess what Joe, my property value didn't decrease by half because of people like me. If people like me were still around, my property value would be 50% higher than when I bought it 25 years ago.

Well, no, it decreased by half because the property rates were overvalued and the bubble popped.

If it's one thing about you people, it's that you never learn anything. Make the same mistakes over and over expecting different results each time because doing the same stupid things makes you feel tingly all over.

Okay, let's look at that.

Bush 41 caused a recession. - Clinton got elected and fixed it.

Then you guys stole the election for Bush-43. He caused two more recessions and crashed the economy.

Obama fixed it...

You guys stole an election for Trump. He's starting a trade war, running up the debt...

So why do you keep doing the same stupid things?

uh, no.
You should learn how to use search engines.
The filibuster that almost killed the Civil Rights Act - National Constitution Center
=

On this day in 1964, the Senate was involved in an epic fight over the Civil Right Act, after a group of Southern senators started a record-setting filibuster in March.

The Act was signed by President Lyndon Baines Johnson on July 2, 1964, but not before a lengthy, protracted fight in Washington. In fact, no full-featured Civil Rights Act proposal had ever survived a filibuster attempt on the Senate floor. Under the old Senate rules, two-thirds of the Senate would need to vote for cloture, or limiting debate time on the floor. (Today, the cloture barrier stands at 60 votes.)

The Act had been approved by the House of Representatives in February 1964, and Senate majority leader Mike Mansfield made the unusual move of bypassing the Judiciary Committee (which was chaired by an anti-bill Senator) and placing the Act directly on the Senate’s main calendar.

But when Mansfield made the first motion about the bill in the Senate, the well-organized filibuster attempt started. And had it been successful, the Civil Rights Act would have been finished for that Senate session.

Committed to the filibuster effort were the powerful Senators Richard Russell, Thurmond, Robert Byrd, William Fulbright and Sam Ervin. Russell started the filibuster in late March 1964, and it would last for 60 working days in the Senate.

During the vote, the terminally ill Senator from California, Clair Engle, was brought to the floor in a wheelchair. Unable to speak because of a brain tumor, Engle pointed to his eye to signify his Yes vote.

President Johnson signed the bill on July 2 in a nationally televised ceremony.

The new law prohibited discrimination in public places. It also provided for the integration of schools and other public facilities, and it made employment discrimination illegal.

Al Gore's father was one of the ones filibustering the bill.

 

[Slyhunter]

Then you're in luck, because we have only a little over 40 million retired now out of a 320 million population.

There will always be old people, middle aged people, and young people regardless of the size of country. Baby boomers will die off and the proportion will go back to normal.

Um, no, we won't. People are living longer and having less babies.

White people aren't even reproducing at replacement rates.

Rich people are living longer and having less babies. Poor people keep begetting like there's no tomorrow. It's ass fucking backwards to what it should be.

 

[Slyhunter]

Some immigration does that. Those that come in the border illegally don't. They get on welfare, sell drugs, join gangs, etc.
We can't shut immigration down to 0 and we shouldn't. But we should seal the border so only the ones we want get in.

Since most of them find jobs, somebody wanted them in.

• An estimated 49 percent of households headed by legal immigrants used one or more welfare programs in 2012, compared to 30 percent of households headed by natives.
  
  • Households headed by legal immigrants have higher use rates than native households overall and for cash programs (14 percent vs. 10 percent), food programs (36 percent vs. 22 percent), and Medicaid (39 percent vs. 23 percent). Use of housing programs is similar.
  • Legal immigrant households account for three-quarters of all immigrant households accessing one or more welfare programs.
  • Less-educated legal immigrants make extensive use of every type of welfare program, including cash, food, Medicaid, and housing.
  • The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have modest levels of education; therefore, the high use of welfare associated with less-educated legal immigrants indicates that legalization would likely increase welfare costs, particularly for cash and housing programs.
  • Restrictions on new legal immigrants’ access to welfare have not prevented them from accessing programs at high rates because restrictions often apply to only a modest share of immigrants at any one time, some programs are not restricted, there are numerous exceptions and exemptions, and some provisions are entirely unenforced. Equally important, immigrants, including those illegally in the country, can receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

• • Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households

 

[Slyhunter]

Of course. When you look at these shit hole countries as Trump was "accused" of saying, is it the land or the people that made them shit holes? It's the people. So now the leftist idea is to bring those people here.

You mean like Ireland, Italy and Poland, all of which were "shitholes" when people were trying to get away from them? Oh, but it's okay, these people were white and it happened a long time ago.

The left has moved lowlifes in our country to better areas, and all that does is ruin better areas. If you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, and mix that with 1/4 cup of stale curdled milk, you only have one thing, and that's a cup of bad milk.

Again, guy, maybe you're the curdled milk. I mean, you are kind of a loser, I bet most people wouldn't want to live next store to you with your gun fetish and bigotry...

But funny thing, I kind of like living in a free country. The thing is, you've enjoyed white privilage your entire life, and you are STILL a loser who won't even try to get a better job or improve himself. So let's talk about what really scares you, people of color getting the same opportunities that you've had, and doing better than you.

We can't allow in everyone from shithole countries that want a better life. It would turn America into a shit hole country.
How many more times do I have to post this before you finally watch it and get a clue?

Let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror; they Only create refugees for the Right Wing, to complain about.

I was for legalizing drugs. Then my 20 year old nephew ended up in the emergency room after taking a single toke of legal synthesized marijuana. Someone found him on the side of the road having an epileptic seizure and throwing up. He's lucky to be alive. A week later the idiot went and got drunk. Something else that maybe need to be outlawed.

Don't get me wrong I am a Libertarian. When it happens to someone else's family member I don't give a fuck.

 

[Flopper]

again, illegal immigration is at a 30 year low and we don't have that many people trying to get in. That you think the small amount of people we are taking in is a problem is really more about you than them.

We can solve our problems just fine... we just refuse to.

You are correct, but the Democrats stopped us from building that wall.

Actually, the undocumented are part of that 320 million, and we kind of need immigrants because White People aren't even reproducing at replacement rates. More of us are dying than being born.

So we become a less populated country. Why is that such a bad thing to the left? Oh, that's right, you were told by your puppet masters it was a bad thing, but have no explanation as to why.

The US population in 1970 was 205 million people. That's more than a third less of what we have today. What was so devastating when we only had that size of population?

6.1% unemployment
5.6% inflation
Country was in recession
Thousands of Americans dying in Vietnam
Not that any of that has anything to do with the size of the population.

The problem with reducing the population by 1/3 today is that taxes would not go down by a 1/3 but more important, consumption would go down by a third, retail sales, home buying, etc. We would have 1/3 the tax payers to pay the interest on the debt and other expenses such as defense spending which would not decline with population. This would translate into a shrinking economy and lenders demanding high interest rates on goverment debt.

Some nations could handle a shrinking population fairly well but not the US because our economy is based growing consumption and an every increasing capacity to carry the national debt.

 

[Flopper]

Trying to hide behind the skirts of a small minority of extreme "hard cases" is standard leftism. They try to excuse millions of abortions of convenience by screaming about "rape, incest, life of the mother!" and they try to excuse millions of illegals motivated by economics by screaming about "fear for their lives!"

And then they wonder how we ended up with President Trump.

If there was some sort of war or government takeover in these counties, I could better understand. But these countries haven't changed in some time. There is no sudden need to escape an environment they've lived in most of their lives. Sure, they want a better place to live, and that's understandable. But I'm certain you will find many children and parents in Asia and Africa that feel the same way. I'm sure there are billions of people that would love to invade the US.

Let's face it, the United States is preferable to 90% of the countries on Earth, including a lot of the ones in Europe. Personally, I think it's better than any other country on Earth.

Doesn't mean we're obligated to let everyone else on Earth live here.

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

 

[Cellblock2429]

If there was some sort of war or government takeover in these counties, I could better understand. But these countries haven't changed in some time. There is no sudden need to escape an environment they've lived in most of their lives. Sure, they want a better place to live, and that's understandable. But I'm certain you will find many children and parents in Asia and Africa that feel the same way. I'm sure there are billions of people that would love to invade the US.

Let's face it, the United States is preferable to 90% of the countries on Earth, including a lot of the ones in Europe. Personally, I think it's better than any other country on Earth.

Doesn't mean we're obligated to let everyone else on Earth live here.

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

/——/ Nice spin. 100% bullshyt but nice spin.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If there was some sort of war or government takeover in these counties, I could better understand. But these countries haven't changed in some time. There is no sudden need to escape an environment they've lived in most of their lives. Sure, they want a better place to live, and that's understandable. But I'm certain you will find many children and parents in Asia and Africa that feel the same way. I'm sure there are billions of people that would love to invade the US.

Let's face it, the United States is preferable to 90% of the countries on Earth, including a lot of the ones in Europe. Personally, I think it's better than any other country on Earth.

Doesn't mean we're obligated to let everyone else on Earth live here.

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

/----/ Don't the democRATs think they will be voted out of office and replaced with the immigrants? Look what happened in NY with the career democRAT who got primaried out? I wonder what he's thinking now.

"But, but, but....." "Go home Gringo."

And got voted out by an open borders admitted Socialist to boot.

Very few if any real democrats want open boarders. I have never spoken to a Democrat that advocated open boarders. The facts are:

• Not one Democratic President ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Presidential Candidate ever proposed open borders.
• Not one Democratic Senator advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Congressman advocates open borders.
• Not one Democratic Governor advocates open borders.
• And you will not find any Democratic Platform advocating open borders.

Declaring that Democrats will open our boarders is nothing but a scare tactic which draws an equal and opposite claim from the Left that Republicans seek to seal our borders and isolation the US from the rest of the world.

Oh come on with the semantics already. They don't use the term Open Borders like they don't use the term socialists or liberals, but we know what they mean.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

again, illegal immigration is at a 30 year low and we don't have that many people trying to get in. That you think the small amount of people we are taking in is a problem is really more about you than them.

We can solve our problems just fine... we just refuse to.

You are correct, but the Democrats stopped us from building that wall.

Actually, the undocumented are part of that 320 million, and we kind of need immigrants because White People aren't even reproducing at replacement rates. More of us are dying than being born.

So we become a less populated country. Why is that such a bad thing to the left? Oh, that's right, you were told by your puppet masters it was a bad thing, but have no explanation as to why.

The US population in 1970 was 205 million people. That's more than a third less of what we have today. What was so devastating when we only had that size of population?

6.1% unemployment
5.6% inflation
Country was in recession
Thousands of Americans dying in Vietnam
Not that any of that has anything to do with the size of the population.

The problem with reducing the population by 1/3 today is that taxes would not go down by a 1/3 but more important, consumption would go down by a third, retail sales, home buying, etc. We would have 1/3 the tax payers to pay the interest on the debt and other expenses such as defense spending which would not decline with population. This would translate into a shrinking economy and lenders demanding high interest rates on goverment debt.

Some nations could handle a shrinking population fairly well but not the US because our economy is based growing consumption and an every increasing capacity to carry the national debt.

Well with a third less consumption, we would have a third less jobs needed to be filled. These immigrants cost us taxpayers billions of dollars every year, so much for your concern about our debt.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some immigration does that. Those that come in the border illegally don't. They get on welfare, sell drugs, join gangs, etc.
We can't shut immigration down to 0 and we shouldn't. But we should seal the border so only the ones we want get in.

Since most of them find jobs, somebody wanted them in.

Yeah, the Democrats.

 

[Coyote]

GENOCIDAL , who knows , import a fifth column , GENOCIDAL , who knows what the future holds Ray .

I think I know and it's obvious when people vote. DumBama and gang was a shot in the arm of what Socialism/ Communism is all about, and it left a bad taste in our mouths. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of problems with the Republicans as well, but at least we're doing something to fix our party and send a message at the same time.

I also believe that leftist brainwashing is finally starting to fade away; not totally rejected just yet, but in the right direction. More and more people are starting to scratch their heads at Democrat policy and coming to the realization they are all phonies. They always have an ulterior motive when they make policies and laws.

For instance most people understand that it's un-American for leftist entities to force people to give them money. The SC ruled that is not acceptable, and Piglosi ran out there saying how it was an attack on the working people. The right thing (in the mind of a leftist) is force people to pay unions money even though they are not part of the union. Democrats are upset because much of that money comes back to them in campaign contributions. It was a money laundering scheme all along.

So you think it is ok then to force the unions to represent those who don’t pay?