What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Coyote]

If a parent is making the difficult choice to leave a horrible situation, they are not a bad parent.

If they are going to subject their child to a horrible situation, just to escape another horrible situation, what has changed for the child, Coyote?

The situation they were leaving was worse.

(Chuckles)

No.

What is worse is not having a relationship with your parent. Not having the guidance of a parent. I should know, I lived without knowing my mom or dad for the better part of a decade before my father chose to come back and atone for himself. My grandmother has more than picked up the slack, but there's always that wanting there, that regret of not knowing or being loved by the people who brought you into this world.

And I will never look kindly on parents who do these kinds of things to their children. Not ever.

I can understand your perspective, given that. Mine is different. I would probably do whatever I had to to save my children...there are worse things then foster care.

 

[TemplarKormac]

“While Mr. Obama has deported more foreigners than any other president, the pace of deportations has recently declined.”

High deportation figures are misleading

 

[boedicca]

What Human Cost is Tolerable to promote open, uncontrolled borders?

That isn’t the issue.

Actually, it is THE ISSUE that matters. Our government's responsibility is to protect U.S. citizens, not to put them at risk in order to serve some PC Agenda of open borders that enable illegal immigration.

 

[DJT for Life]

It's the parent's fault. They know that they are breaking the law.
Many times when US parents break laws their children are put in foster care.

It is not the parents' fault. Trump knows this which is why he is blaming Democrats.

----------------------------- he is blaming 'dems' / YOU because the moochers in cages photos was taken during 'mrobama' time in office Busybee .

Do you have a clue what you are talking about. We are talking about TRUMP'S decision to separate children from their families. Obama did not start it. Quit blaming Obama for everything.

Obama lost over 4100 children when he was President.

The fact is that it continued under Trump. However we are discussing TRUMP policy of separating children from their families. Obama had nothing to do with it.

And none of the children lost were because they were separated from
their parents.

If your Mama gets arrested stealing a loaf of bread and has to spend
90 days in the county jail...you ain't going there with her.

We aren't offering temporary housing for illegal families.

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

 

[tycho1572]

Despite our differences, you’ll always be loved by me, Coyote.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ok....I think in this case you way wrong....because a child isn’t a thing or property. It is a person with rights as well. That is why we don’t punish children for what their parents did. Though we used to.

The one thing you're failing to realize is that I'm not wanting the child to be punished. I want the child to be treated like a human being. Apparently the parents seem to think they are "things" or "property" because they have to smuggle them. Yes. What do you do with drugs if your in a drug cartel? You smuggle them. What do you do if you're a thief with stolen property and need to get your filched goods from one place to another, you smuggle them.

You're right, they aren't things or property, but their parents are using them as leverage over another sovereign government in order to get here themselves. That, Coyote, is not acceptable.

What would you do as a parent in that situation TK?

I would obey the friggun law, Coyote. I'd much rather maintain my relationship with my child than to use them as a tool to leverage another government for my illegal presence within their borders. I will have none of it. Children are not tools, they are children. Innocent children who essentially have no control over their situations. Ultimately the onus lies on the parents, they set such a vicious cycle in motion.

Not even in a moment of sheer desperation would I ever dare to subject my child to that. I would have to have gone completely insane to do something so barbarous.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

A simple fix is when caught turn them back.

I'm sorry but I've had it up to my eye balls with illegals. The cost is staggering and Americans should come first.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But what about the effect of the policy on the children themselves?

I'm curious about something...

Are the parents considering the effect on their children when they smuggle them across the border illegally? Do they consider the effect this policy will have on their child?

I don't think they do.

Yes I think they do. Very much so. The journey is very dangerous, and often they are fleeing dangerous conditions in their own countries including threats to their children if they don’t join cartels or gangs, even rape. Often it is the sort of thing only desperate people would do. So yes I do believe they think of their children. What would you choose....having your daughter raped by a gang member because you refused to allow your son to serve as a runner for them and the police are either too corrupt or too afraid to do anything about it...or attempting a dangerous where, if you make it your family might be relatively safe?

If the conditions were so bad where they came from, WTF did they have children in the first place?

I made the decision long ago never to have children because of the expense and responsibility. I didn't want to pass on bad genes because my health was bad since a young adult. It wasn't that difficult of a decision to make or carry out. Yet these people come from shitholes and decide to have children and bring them into those shitholes, and somehow that becomes our problem.

We have a bad enough problem taking care of uncared for children by our own people. We don't need to be taking care of the worlds children on top of it. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY!

 

[Manonthestreet]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

How many paid coyotes by prostituting their kids......

 

[Coyote]

What Human Cost is Tolerable to promote open, uncontrolled borders?

That isn’t the issue.

Actually, it is THE ISSUE that matters. Our government's responsibility is to protect U.S. citizens, not to put them at risk in order to serve some PC Agenda of open borders that enable illegal immigration.

It isn’t about open borders. I don’t know anyone outside of the rights imagination who supports truly open borders so that claim is just a deflection from the real issue. How do you handle families, in particular mothers, with children while they await their hearing? Is this really the best way or only way? Is it even cost effective to have to throw all those kids into an already overburdened foster care system. HHS is stuck with paying for it, and they are not equip or funded to do so. So what purpose does it serve?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

God you people are stupid. Her point is about the kids who didn’t choose to be smuggled over the border.

You mean just like the children of incarcerated bank robbers...and how the piece of shit parents forfeited them to the system by way of their own actions?

So you’re equating bank robbers to people who want a better life for their children by crossing a border? God you’re fucking stupid.

The bank robber wants the same thing.

Bank robbery is a felony.

Being here illegally is one misdemeanor count. Parents who have completed their sentence should be reunited with their children.

Then I have a solution to our problem. Make coming here illegal a felony and then take away the kids.

That's not a solution, dope. It certainly does nothing to address the current problem.

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

A simple fix is when caught turn them back.

I'm sorry but I've had it up to my eye balls with illegals. The cost is staggering and Americans should come first.

I think asylum seekers have a right to a hearing no matter what. Most end up deported but it is their legal right. As an American I would feel horrible sending some on back to a horrendous situation without even a hearing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That's not a solution, dope. It certainly does nothing to address the current problem.

And what have the past "solutions" done to solve the problem?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You mean just like the children of incarcerated bank robbers...and how the piece of shit parents forfeited them to the system by way of their own actions?

So you’re equating bank robbers to people who want a better life for their children by crossing a border? God you’re fucking stupid.

The bank robber wants the same thing.

Bank robbery is a felony.

Being here illegally is one misdemeanor count. Parents who have completed their sentence should be reunited with their children.

Then I have a solution to our problem. Make coming here illegal a felony and then take away the kids.

That's not a solution, dope. It certainly does nothing to address the current problem.

Here's the solution......

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

A simple fix is when caught turn them back.

I'm sorry but I've had it up to my eye balls with illegals. The cost is staggering and Americans should come first.

I think asylum seekers have a right to a hearing no matter what. Most end up deported but it is their legal right. As an American I would feel horrible sending some on back to a horrendous situation without even a hearing.

How the hell are we supposed to know if they're telling the truth?

 

[OKTexas]

What about’s are good for other potential discussions but not really relevant to this, a specific policy.

Not quite sure what you were trying to say here...

Immigration is a huge issue, with a lot of policies, laws, and strong opinions. It is hard to focus on one particular aspect without going off on all kinds of tangents. I don’t care about who is to blame, in fact it is irrelevant. Blame is useless and changes nothing. Is it possible to have enforcement policies that go too far? Does this particular policy go too far?

NO.


.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

A simple fix is when caught turn them back.

I'm sorry but I've had it up to my eye balls with illegals. The cost is staggering and Americans should come first.

I think asylum seekers have a right to a hearing no matter what. Most end up deported but it is their legal right. As an American I would feel horrible sending some on back to a horrendous situation without even a hearing.

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

A good parent wouldn't subject their child to this.

They know the risks before they try to enter so it's difficult to feel sorry for them.

Do you think the choices they make are lightly made or the situations they are leaving behind good for their kids? I am not arguing against deportation here, I am saying this is a really bad policy to enforce with zero tolerance. It is barbaric imo, and there are better ways of dealing with it than that.

A simple fix is when caught turn them back.

I'm sorry but I've had it up to my eye balls with illegals. The cost is staggering and Americans should come first.

I think asylum seekers have a right to a hearing no matter what. Most end up deported but it is their legal right. As an American I would feel horrible sending some on back to a horrendous situation without even a hearing.

How the hell are we supposed to know if they're telling the truth?

You just magically believe whatever they say

 

[Coyote]

Ok....I think in this case you way wrong....because a child isn’t a thing or property. It is a person with rights as well. That is why we don’t punish children for what their parents did. Though we used to.

The one thing you're failing to realize is that I'm not wanting the child to be punished. I want the child to be treated like a human being. Apparently the parents seem to think they are "things" or "property" because they have to smuggle them. Yes. What do you do with drugs if your in a drug cartel? You smuggle them. What do you do if you're a thief with stolen property and need to get your filched goods from one place to another, you smuggle them.

You're right, they aren't things or property, but their parents are using them as leverage over another sovereign government in order to get here themselves. That, Coyote, is not acceptable.

What would you do as a parent in that situation TK?

I would obey the friggun law, Coyote. I'd much rather maintain my relationship with my child than to use them as a tool to leverage another government for my illegal presence within their borders. I will have none of it. Children are not tools, they are children. Innocent children who essentially have no control over their situations. Ultimately the onus lies on the parents, they set such a vicious cycle in motion.

Not even in a moment of sheer desperation would I ever dare to subject my child to that. I would have to have gone completely insane to do something so barbarous.

What if your daughter was raped by a gang and your other daughter threatened with the same if you did not pay up? What if the police were bankrolled by that gang? Not fictional, these are the sorts of things recounted. What would you do?

I would get my kids the hell out of Dodge any way I can.

 

[pismoe]

What Human Cost is Tolerable to promote open, uncontrolled borders?

That isn’t the issue.

Actually, it is THE ISSUE that matters. Our government's responsibility is to protect U.S. citizens, not to put them at risk in order to serve some PC Agenda of open borders that enable illegal immigration.

It isn’t about open borders. I don’t know anyone outside of the rights imagination who supports truly open borders so that claim is just a deflection from the real issue. How do you handle families, in particular mothers, with children while they await their hearing? Is this really the best way or only way? Is it even cost effective to have to throw all those kids into an already overburdened foster care system. HHS is stuck with paying for it, and they are not equip or funded to do so. So what purpose does it serve?

--------------------------------- might scare the mothers Coyote .