What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[eagle1462010]

How about California becoming part of Mexico. Everyone is leaving the Socialist Paradise and being replaced by illegals. Might as well become part of Mexico

 

[Flopper]

Give us an example of a human facility of the size and scope and for the same types of *immigrants* that the left has invited to our border.

You know, facilities that will *hold* families safely while trying to figure out who the fuck they are and where they came from and whether or not they are murderers or rapists or terrorists on the run.

Let's see an example of the sort of facility you want us to emulate.

Pretty sure what BusyBee and Coyote have in mind would look like this.. But with a Welcome to America banner draped elegantly from the front Promenade.

Pretty sure you are wrong.

Opposing ripping away their children while they are awaiting a hearing is hardly equivalent to this and was not necessary before. There were adequate facilities that managed to keep families intact.

Wtf is wrong with people! Opposing this policy is now equivalent to wanting open borders and five star hotels for them? Illegal immigrants are now equated with murders and rapists?

This country has gon in a truly evil direction.

Having separate housing's for those detained is for their own protection. It is a liability if the children get harmed or raped being detained with adults awaiting a hearing.

If they were allowed to be detained together and something happened the left would be in arms of not protecting them.

Bottom line. The left want Catch and release which is the same as Welcome to America. Open borders. They don't show up for hearings under that policy and blend into the country.

Immigration is s numbers game. There are too many in plight South of the border to take them all in. The problem there is not OUR fault. These countries did it to themselves and expect us to take care of them for their own mistakes.

They need to retake their countries from the drug Lord's and stop the need to flee here.

This thread is identity politics now. Your evil BS. Sell that snake oil somewhere else

Eventually, we have to take a practically workable approach to illegal immigration. Deportation at best keeps the number of illegal immigrants from increasing. 80% of all deportees are captured within a short distance of the boarder. The other 20% (internal deportations) come from the rest of the country. At the current rate that Trump is deporting, it will take between 150 and 230 years to deport all illegal immigrants. The actually time would probably be a lot longer because we will not always have a zealot such as Trump in the White House and a republican congress.

It's very unlikely that the wall across the Mexican boarder will be built. Trump has already shot down that idea of wall that spans the boarder. His last word I heard was he was planning to build a wall in certainly places and upgrade fencing. However, even if the wall is build, this may not significantly reduce illegal immigration. If we are successful in reducing Southern boarder crossings, we have to consider our other boarders. We have nearly 100,000 miles of boarder including our shoreline and the Canadian boarder. which are largely unguarded compared to our southern boarder. As crossing our Southern boarder get's harder, people will turn to other alternatives which will not be as costly as you might think.

One thing rarely mentioned is cost. Using ICE's on cost figures, the cost per deportee in 2016 is $10,854. Best estimates are that there are 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. If you do the math, you will see that comes out to over 120 billion dollars. To that we have to add the 12 billion/yr. in Social Security illegal immigrants pay that they will never draw plus income tax paid and sales tax. Then there is additional cost to get our crops picked, custodial services, landscaping, etc.

The cost of them staying is much higher. welfare schooling etc.

They detained 100 k in 2 months and that doesn't count the ones getting through. That adds close to a million more per year under Catch and Release.

That's not a viable option

The evidence is pretty sketchy and mostly anecdotal. Federal law makes it illegal to spend any federal dollars on aid to illegal immigrants. If you think state employees are approving application for aid without proof of citizenship, you've sadly mistaken. I recently looked at a state application for financial aid in my state. First it's felony not to reveal non-US citizenship. All persons on the application must supply birth dates and social security numbers. If they can't be verified electronically then an in office interview is scheduled. If anyone in the family is not a US citizen, they have to list the citizenship of everyone in the household and provide proof that they are legally in the country. Primary proof of citizenship is birth certificates or passports. If they are not available, then there's a number of secondary supporting documents required. Most of the rhetoric about illegals on welfare goes back to the early 90's when there was little required to get aid.

What is important about deportation stats is not the total deportations but internal deportations, (those picked up more than 30 miles from the border) because this is where the vast majority of our illegals reside, not on the boarder. Most of the immigrants picked up are found crossing the boarder or close by. Removing these people keeps the number in the US from rising but does little to reduce the overall total.

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons. First, ICE has to have cooperation from cities and towns. Secondly, expedited deportation can not be used for internal deportation or for those who have been in the US for more than a year. The deportation has to work it's way through immigration court which currently has a backlog of over 200,000 cases. Once in immigration court, the detainee has the right to counsel, right to a hearing to request release while waiting for a court appearance which can take months. At the court appearance the judge is in control. He or she can grant postponements for a number of reasons. Even after the judge signs the deportation order, the detainee can request a review by a 3 judge panel which typically takes 30 to 90 days. Then the person can be deported. It can easily take 6 mos. to a year to deport without expedited deportation. If there are applications pending for asylum, it can take longer.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Do you know what it is like to have to go out every morning and collect discarded Mexican pacifiers from the children's immigration path from the back yard? I've had enough!

 

[eagle1462010]

Pretty sure what BusyBee and Coyote have in mind would look like this.. But with a Welcome to America banner draped elegantly from the front Promenade.

Pretty sure you are wrong.

Opposing ripping away their children while they are awaiting a hearing is hardly equivalent to this and was not necessary before. There were adequate facilities that managed to keep families intact.

Wtf is wrong with people! Opposing this policy is now equivalent to wanting open borders and five star hotels for them? Illegal immigrants are now equated with murders and rapists?

This country has gon in a truly evil direction.

Having separate housing's for those detained is for their own protection. It is a liability if the children get harmed or raped being detained with adults awaiting a hearing.

If they were allowed to be detained together and something happened the left would be in arms of not protecting them.

Bottom line. The left want Catch and release which is the same as Welcome to America. Open borders. They don't show up for hearings under that policy and blend into the country.

Immigration is s numbers game. There are too many in plight South of the border to take them all in. The problem there is not OUR fault. These countries did it to themselves and expect us to take care of them for their own mistakes.

They need to retake their countries from the drug Lord's and stop the need to flee here.

This thread is identity politics now. Your evil BS. Sell that snake oil somewhere else

Eventually, we have to take a practically workable approach to illegal immigration. Deportation at best keeps the number of illegal immigrants from increasing. 80% of all deportees are captured within a short distance of the boarder. The other 20% (internal deportations) come from the rest of the country. At the current rate that Trump is deporting, it will take between 150 and 230 years to deport all illegal immigrants. The actually time would probably be a lot longer because we will not always have a zealot such as Trump in the White House and a republican congress.

It's very unlikely that the wall across the Mexican boarder will be built. Trump has already shot down that idea of wall that spans the boarder. His last word I heard was he was planning to build a wall in certainly places and upgrade fencing. However, even if the wall is build, this may not significantly reduce illegal immigration. If we are successful in reducing Southern boarder crossings, we have to consider our other boarders. We have nearly 100,000 miles of boarder including our shoreline and the Canadian boarder. which are largely unguarded compared to our southern boarder. As crossing our Southern boarder get's harder, people will turn to other alternatives which will not be as costly as you might think.

One thing rarely mentioned is cost. Using ICE's on cost figures, the cost per deportee in 2016 is $10,854. Best estimates are that there are 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. If you do the math, you will see that comes out to over 120 billion dollars. To that we have to add the 12 billion/yr. in Social Security illegal immigrants pay that they will never draw plus income tax paid and sales tax. Then there is additional cost to get our crops picked, custodial services, landscaping, etc.

The cost of them staying is much higher. welfare schooling etc.

They detained 100 k in 2 months and that doesn't count the ones getting through. That adds close to a million more per year under Catch and Release.

That's not a viable option

The evidence is pretty sketchy and mostly anecdotal. Federal law makes it illegal to spend any federal dollars on aid to illegal immigrants. If you think state employees are approving application for aid without proof of citizenship, you've sadly mistaken. I recently looked at a state application for financial aid in my state. First it's felony not to reveal non-US citizenship. All persons on the application must supply birth dates and social security numbers. If they can't be verified electronically then an in office interview is scheduled. If anyone in the family is not a US citizen, they have to list the citizenship of everyone in the household and provide proof that they are legally in the country. Primary proof of citizenship is birth certificates or passports. If they are not available, then there's a number of secondary supporting documents required. Most of the rhetoric about illegals on welfare goes back to the early 90's when there was little required to get aid.

What is important about deportation stats is not the total deportations but internal deportations, (those picked up more than 30 miles from the border) because this is where the vast majority of our illegals reside, not on the boarder. Most of the immigrants picked up are found crossing the boarder or close by. Removing these people keeps the number in the US from rising but does little to reduce the overall total.

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons. First, ICE has to have cooperation from cities and towns. Secondly, expedited deportation can not be used for internal deportation or for those who have been in the US for more than a year. The deportation has to work it's way through immigration court which currently has a backlog of over 200,000 cases. Once in immigration court, the detainee has the right to counsel, right to a hearing to request release while waiting for a court appearance which can take months. At the court appearance the judge is in control. He or she can grant postponements for a number of reasons. Even after the judge signs the deportation order, the detainee can request a review by a 3 judge panel which typically takes 30 to 90 days. Then the person can be deported. It can easily take 6 mos. to a year to deport without expedited deportation. If there are applications pending for asylum, it can take longer.

So.....

Just ignore it and say Welcome. If the Gop had any balls wedw get rid of the loop holes and turn them straight back around. Problem solved

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are plenty of ways to deter it without descending to this. It's cruel and there is no other way to put it.

Can you explain what is cruel about it?

Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations.

That's one of the first things Trump did. But if your boat is sinking, you can't expect to get anywhere by bailing out the water with a pail unless you fix the hole first.

Increase manpower and electronic border security.

Democrats are stopping any and all efforts to manually secure the border. Blame them.

 

[eagle1462010]

Do you know what it is like to have to go out every morning and collect discarded Mexican pacifiers from the children's immigration path from the back yard? I've had enough!

Yeah. I heard herds of babies were crawling across the border .not a single stroller. The shame. I also heard Americans forced them to come here. Terrible. Just plain terrible.

And they all had diaper rash.

Heard their parents made them crawl

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pretty sure you are wrong.

Opposing ripping away their children while they are awaiting a hearing is hardly equivalent to this and was not necessary before. There were adequate facilities that managed to keep families intact.

And then you wonder why they keep coming? Bet you next time they will think of this before attempting to make another journey here.

And there actually are NOT adequate facilities for families, which is why so many of them ended up being released for a promise to return, which they then never did. Hence the change in policy.

But Coyote's position is "Fuck reality, fuck the USA, I want THIS to be right, and so it IS right, no matter what!"

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Parents taking their kids across borders are now “child smugglers.”



View attachment 196200

If they took heroin across the border, are they drug smugglers?

 

[koshergrl]

...promising that they will be united with their children if they sign a voluntary deportation agreement

That is evil.

It's also purely a figment of your imagination, which means the evil is something inside you.

No. It isn't. I quoted it from the post above nitwit. Learn to read.

I DID read. I read you finding someone saying what you wanted to believe, and simply assuming that OF COURSE it was correct about what was happening, because that's ALSO what you want to believe.

Learn to think, lackwit.

Clearly your reading comprehension skills are smaller than your mouth. I merely quoted from the post. There is nothing there that I made up.

Clearly, YOUR reading comprehension skills are small enough to fit in a gnat's ear.

"I merely quoted the post." Yes, and the post remains NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. It's just something you picked out randomly because it said what you wanted to hear.

And you continue to invent the whole "use the children to coerce the people to voluntarily deport" conspiracy right out of your own demented pseudo-brain.

She makes shit up.

 

[koshergrl]

Parents taking their kids across borders are now “child smugglers.”



View attachment 196200

If they took heroin across the border, are they drug smugglers?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Parents taking their kids across borders are now “child smugglers.”



View attachment 196200

If they took heroin across the border, are they drug smugglers?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons.

No, if we really wanted to reduce the number of illegals, all we have to do is pass a law that anybody caught here illegally faces a minimum five year prison sentence. It could be more depending on how good the judge feels that day.

At least 11 million of the illegals will be running to that border so fast it would make your head spin.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's also purely a figment of your imagination, which means the evil is something inside you.

No. It isn't. I quoted it from the post above nitwit. Learn to read.

I DID read. I read you finding someone saying what you wanted to believe, and simply assuming that OF COURSE it was correct about what was happening, because that's ALSO what you want to believe.

Learn to think, lackwit.

Clearly your reading comprehension skills are smaller than your mouth. I merely quoted from the post. There is nothing there that I made up.

Clearly, YOUR reading comprehension skills are small enough to fit in a gnat's ear.

"I merely quoted the post." Yes, and the post remains NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. It's just something you picked out randomly because it said what you wanted to hear.

And you continue to invent the whole "use the children to coerce the people to voluntarily deport" conspiracy right out of your own demented pseudo-brain.

She makes shit up.

Yup, that's pretty much what I've been saying.

 

[protectionist]

American have been asked time and again by different polling services how they feel about amnesty and deportation.
They overwhelming support amnesty and oppose deportation and building a wall
Immigration

"polling services" ? LOL. You mean the same polling services that on November 7, 2016 said Hillary Clinton was going to win easily ?

The Americans were really asked about it on November 8, 2016. Here's how they answered >>

 

[Cecilie1200]

How about California becoming part of Mexico. Everyone is leaving the Socialist Paradise and being replaced by illegals. Might as well become part of Mexico

Fuck that. There's some very good quality, valuable real estate there. It's only the leftists living there that are useless. Mexico can have them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are plenty of ways to deter it without descending to this. It's cruel and there is no other way to put it.

Can you explain what is cruel about it?

Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations.

That's one of the first things Trump did. But if your boat is sinking, you can't expect to get anywhere by bailing out the water with a pail unless you fix the hole first.

Increase manpower and electronic border security.

Democrats are stopping any and all efforts to manually secure the border. Blame them.

Funny thing is, she says, "Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations", like it's some brilliant alternative she's come up with that no one else saw, because her leftism makes her so superior and more compassionate, but HER OWN DAMNED LINK said that that's the cornerstone of the program she's bitching about. If she had bothered to read more than the headline before shouting, "Eureka! Something else I can hate Trump for!" she would know that.

 

[Flopper]

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons.

No, if we really wanted to reduce the number of illegals, all we have to do is pass a law that anybody caught here illegally faces a minimum five year prison sentence. It could be more depending on how good the judge feels that day.

At least 11 million of the illegals will be running to that border so fast it would make your head spin.

Those people from Honduras would probably consider 5 years in a federal prison free room and board, far better than what awaits them at home. It just delays deportation and cost a bunch of money. This is one of the reasons we rarely imprison someone for illegal entry.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are plenty of ways to deter it without descending to this. It's cruel and there is no other way to put it.

Can you explain what is cruel about it?

Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations.

That's one of the first things Trump did. But if your boat is sinking, you can't expect to get anywhere by bailing out the water with a pail unless you fix the hole first.

Increase manpower and electronic border security.

Democrats are stopping any and all efforts to manually secure the border. Blame them.

Funny thing is, she says, "Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations", like it's some brilliant alternative she's come up with that no one else saw, because her leftism makes her so superior and more compassionate, but HER OWN DAMNED LINK said that that's the cornerstone of the program she's bitching about. If she had bothered to read more than the headline before shouting, "Eureka! Something else I can hate Trump for!" she would know that.

She drifted from stopping illegals from coming here to what to do about deportations once they do get here.

So we try to speed up the process because we have so many illegals. Okay, why do we have so many illegals? Because we didn't put up much of a deterrent from them coming here. Now that Trump is putting up a very small deterrent, she's complaining about the deterrent.

It's like watching a cat chase his tail. Either we are going to start creating more and more deterrents or we're not. If we're not, then expect more people to do the same as the ones that just got here, and yes, with their kids as well.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons.

No, if we really wanted to reduce the number of illegals, all we have to do is pass a law that anybody caught here illegally faces a minimum five year prison sentence. It could be more depending on how good the judge feels that day.

At least 11 million of the illegals will be running to that border so fast it would make your head spin.

Those people from Honduras would probably consider 5 years in a federal prison free room and board, far better than what awaits them at home. It just delays deportation and cost a bunch of money. This is one of the reasons we rarely imprison someone for illegal entry.

No, it's because it's only considered a misdemeanor. If it was a first degree felony, we would reduce our immigration population by at least 90%, and reduce border crossings by even more.

 

[protectionist]

No, if we really wanted to reduce the number of illegals, all we have to do is pass a law that anybody caught here illegally faces a minimum five year prison sentence. It could be more depending on how good the judge feels that day.

At least 11 million of the illegals will be running to that border so fast it would make your head spin.

A bill like that was attempted, proposed by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). It was called the Stop Illegal Reentry Act, and also "Kate's Law", named after Kate Steinle, who was killed by an illegal alien, in San Francisco. The bill was defeated by Democrats who voted solidly against it.