What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

To really reduce the 12 million illegal immigrants in the US we have to start large scale deportations from all of major cities, and that's not going to be easy for a number of reasons.

No, if we really wanted to reduce the number of illegals, all we have to do is pass a law that anybody caught here illegally faces a minimum five year prison sentence. It could be more depending on how good the judge feels that day.


At least 11 million of the illegals will be running to that border so fast it would make your head spin.

Those people from Honduras would probably consider 5 years in a federal prison free room and board, far better than what awaits them at home. It just delays deportation and cost a bunch of money. This is one of the reasons we rarely imprison someone for illegal entry.

No, it's because it's only considered a misdemeanor. If it was a first degree felony, we would reduce our immigration population by at least 90%, and reduce border crossings by even more.

For first time offenders, it's a misdemeanor. Although Trump devotees consider it on par with rape or murder, the penalty makes it about as serious as trespassing. Of course the real punishment is deportation. However, immigration courts don't punish people. Deportation is only a change of immigration status since this is being handled in a civil not a criminal court.

For repeat offenders it can be tried as a felony. In the federal system an imprisonment penalty of one year or over is considered a felony. My understanding is Trump is moving repeat offenders to criminal court which is not likely to consider the reason for the crime nor the effect of conviction on the family plus there is no huge backlog. So they should be open and shut cases, ideal for plea bargains. However, in a criminal court the defendant is entitled to a jury trial unlike immigration court.

I seriously doubt that any penalty other than death for illegal entry would have any effect on illegal immigration. From the questions I read on the Internet from people facing deportation, they don't have a clue how our legal system works and know even less about immigration courts or laws and these are probably the smart ones.

 

[protectionist]

No, it's because it's only considered a misdemeanor. If it was a first degree felony, we would reduce our immigration population by at least 90%, and reduce border crossings by even more.

It would also be a better deterrent, if the prison time was made to be very uncomfortable. Something that after their imprisonment, illegals would not want to risk repeating.

 

[Vandalshandle]

No, it's because it's only considered a misdemeanor. If it was a first degree felony, we would reduce our immigration population by at least 90%, and reduce border crossings by even more.

It would also be a better deterrent, if the prison time was made to be very uncomfortable. Something that after their imprisonment, illegals would not want to risk repeating.

..and here it comes, folks! The argument for the resumption of torture by the USA! (que, "Stars and Stripes Forever").

 

[protectionist]

..and here it comes, folks! The argument for the resumption of torture by the USA! (que, "Stars and Stripes Forever").

"torture" ? Your word, not mine.

 

[Vandalshandle]

..and here it comes, folks! The argument for the resumption of torture by the USA! (que, "Stars and Stripes Forever").

"torture" ? Your word, not mine.

How's that alligator pond from San Diego to Brownsville that you have been advocating, working out?

 

[abrere]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

bs, the stupid jerks should not HAVE kids. They know damned well what causes kids, how to prevent it, and they also know damned well that they can't afford kids. So they come here to steal our jobs and mooch off of the taxpayer. I say eff em. Let them stay where they are, stop having kids and soon, labor will be worth something where they live.

 

[protectionist]

My concern for my fellow human beings is more important than political gain……..oh never mind . You’re a conservative. I doubt you’d understand.

Oh, but we conservatives DO INDEED "understand". What we understand is the difference between conservatives like us, and liberals like you. As Obama calling himself a "citizen of the world", your liberal , internationalist perspective is concern for your "fellow human beings"........

while we nationalist,

(citizens of the USA) ​

conservatives', concern is for our fellow AMERICANS (including the many harms of immigration), first and foremost.

 

[protectionist]

Don't separate the children from their parents.

So if an American couple are arrested for some white collar crime, and are sentenced to 20 years, and they have a 1 year old child, that kid should be in their prison cell with them, until the kid reaches 21 years of age, right ? Right ?

 

[protectionist]

They are not judges. They do not have the right to make those types of judgements. ICE was recently called liars by a federal judge for falsely claiming that a DACA recipient was a member of MS-13.

So if thousands of migrants appeared at the border, and all claimed for asylum, you would let them all in, to be sent to a court later ? If so, where would you suggest that they be during the interim ?

 

[Coyote]

Don't separate the children from their parents.

So if an American couple are arrested for some white collar crime, and are sentenced to 20 years, and they have a 1 year old child, that kid should be in their prison cell with them, until the kid reaches 21 years of age, right ? Right ?

Entering the country illegally is a misdeamener. You realize that don't you?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Don't separate the children from their parents.

So if an American couple are arrested for some white collar crime, and are sentenced to 20 years, and they have a 1 year old child, that kid should be in their prison cell with them, until the kid reaches 21 years of age, right ? Right ?

Entering the country illegally is a misdeamener. You realize that don't you?

Fifty years ago, my step father got a second DUI, which was a felony in our state. In Protectionist's world, the whole family would have served time. Separately, of course.

 

[HappyJoy]

How about the unnecessary separation of children from their parents?

How about the unnecessary smuggling of those children into the U.S. to begin with? How about the unnecessary separation of children from their criminal parents who go to jail?

They aren't in jail, they are not convicted. Also, many of the kids being separated are from parents who are legally entering as refugees.

 

[eagle1462010]

Don't separate the children from their parents.

So if an American couple are arrested for some white collar crime, and are sentenced to 20 years, and they have a 1 year old child, that kid should be in their prison cell with them, until the kid reaches 21 years of age, right ? Right ?

Entering the country illegally is a misdeamener. You realize that don't you?

Felony the second time.

 

[eagle1462010]

Throw them to the wolves........Human trafficking........2014. DHS hand them over to traffickers awaiting their trial............Forced enslavement...take their whole paycheck.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

Immigration in the Omnibus: No Wall Funding, but Gains for Trump

Detention Beds

• President’s request: Currently, the government is required to fill at least 34,000 beds across all immigration detention centers each night. Congress has continued this mandate over many years, despite objections raised by the Obama administration. Trump sought $1.2 billion to expand the mandate to 45,700 beds by the end of FY2017.
• Omnibus bill: Congress approved $526 million for additional beds, raising the number available to 39,324. Congress also approved $33 million for additional transportation and removal costs, as well as $57 million for alternatives to detention.

Immigration courts

• President’s Request: The president’s FY2017 request did not ask for additional immigration court funding. However, the FY2018 budget blueprint called for the hiring of 75 new judge teams. The new resources would aim to speed up case processing in immigration courts, where the backlog has surpassed 542,000 cases, with an average wait time of 677 days.
• Omnibus bill: The Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) budget has been increased by $20 million to $440 million for FY2017, which allows for the creation of 10 additional immigration judge teams this fiscal year.

 

[Coyote]

There are plenty of ways to deter it without descending to this. It's cruel and there is no other way to put it.

Can you explain what is cruel about it?

Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations.

That's one of the first things Trump did. But if your boat is sinking, you can't expect to get anywhere by bailing out the water with a pail unless you fix the hole first.

Increase manpower and electronic border security.

Democrats are stopping any and all efforts to manually secure the border. Blame them.

Funny thing is, she says, "Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations", like it's some brilliant alternative she's come up with that no one else saw, because her leftism makes her so superior and more compassionate, but HER OWN DAMNED LINK said that that's the cornerstone of the program she's bitching about. If she had bothered to read more than the headline before shouting, "Eureka! Something else I can hate Trump for!" she would know that.

Sorry, I never claimed credit for that, it's been in the news. You need get to out more. Meanwhile, please feel to extol the virtues of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers in hour effort to "stop" illegal immigration. A pity you can't put all that energy into stopping rape and murder and child abuse. Oops. You support child abuse don't you? Never mind then. Your warped priorities will hopefuly be just another page in our countries book of shame in a few years.

 

[Coyote]

Those aren't DACA dreamers but then, honesty isn't your strong point is it?

 

[koshergrl]

Don't separate the children from their parents.

So if an American couple are arrested for some white collar crime, and are sentenced to 20 years, and they have a 1 year old child, that kid should be in their prison cell with them, until the kid reaches 21 years of age, right ? Right ?

Entering the country illegally is a misdeamener. You realize that don't you?

Fifty years ago, my step father got a second DUI, which was a felony in our state. In Protectionist's world, the whole family would have served time. Separately, of course.

If your stepfather had the kids in the car, the kids should have been immediately removed from his care for their safety.

 

[eagle1462010]

There are plenty of ways to deter it without descending to this. It's cruel and there is no other way to put it.

Can you explain what is cruel about it?

Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations.

That's one of the first things Trump did. But if your boat is sinking, you can't expect to get anywhere by bailing out the water with a pail unless you fix the hole first.

Increase manpower and electronic border security.

Democrats are stopping any and all efforts to manually secure the border. Blame them.

Funny thing is, she says, "Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations", like it's some brilliant alternative she's come up with that no one else saw, because her leftism makes her so superior and more compassionate, but HER OWN DAMNED LINK said that that's the cornerstone of the program she's bitching about. If she had bothered to read more than the headline before shouting, "Eureka! Something else I can hate Trump for!" she would know that.

Sorry, I never claimed credit for that, it's been in the news. You need get to out more. Meanwhile, please feel to extol the virtues of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers in hour effort to "stop" illegal immigration. A pity you can't put all that energy into stopping rape and murder and child abuse. Oops. You support child abuse don't you? Never mind then. Your warped priorities will hopefuly be just another page in our countries book of shame in a few years.

On the second offense it is a felony..........and those get put into prison with some very bad people.........Let's put the children into prison with drug traffickers and Human Traffickers.

In the Omnibus they only gave Trump half what he requested for more beds.
They also weren't so nice on implementing E-Verify............didn't give enough for more judges but more judges for immigration courts did happen..........

Everything some have complained about here was proposed.................

Want more beds and speedy trials.............how about voting to fund it.