What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[JakeStarkey]

Everyone in the court system of America has the same rights: end of story.

 

[eagle1462010]

Everyone in the court system of America has the same rights: end of story.

Yes .Felons get thrown in jail and don't bring their kids. End of story.

 

[JakeStarkey]

These same conditions were present under Obama. Where was the concern then........ But he just let them go. I posted info about that.

Really? Explain.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Everyone in the court system of America has the same rights: end of story.

Yes .Felons get thrown in jail and don't bring their kids. End of story.

They are not felons is the point. Not yet anyway.

When the Mueller indictees are convicted and sent away, their children will be separated from them, and that is a very good thing.

 

[eagle1462010]

These same conditions were present under Obama. Where was the concern then........ But he just let them go. I posted info about that.

Really? Explain.

Same beds. Same human trafficking. Same overcrowding. Same detention process

 

[JakeStarkey]

These same conditions were present under Obama. Where was the concern then........ But he just let them go. I posted info about that.

Really? Explain.

Same beds. Same human trafficking. Same overcrowding. Same detention process

Those are your opinions. But you don't give any proof. So your comments can be dismissed for good.

 

[eagle1462010]

Everyone in the court system of America has the same rights: end of story.

Yes .Felons get thrown in jail and don't bring their kids. End of story.

They are not felons is the point. Not yet anyway.

When the Mueller indictees are convicted and sent away, their children will be separated from them, and that is a very good thing.

On the 2nd time they are caught here illegally itsi a felony.

Not the ones walking to the border asking asylum dumb ass.

 

[Doc1]

Those who separate children from family for legally presenting themselves at the border for entry are human demons.

It's only a felony for the 2nd count of being caught here illegally. You make it sound as though they got themself caught. Which is different from coming to the border and seek asylum. You are confused.

Actually you are describing yourself: confused. And accused for supporting the tearing apart of families.

We are only guilty of supporting the laws of the Republic. They are not citizens and aren't.
guaranteed anything

Do it legally or not at all. Adults are housed in prisons not day care centers. It is no place for a child.

We do not build apartment complexes for illegsls but temporary processing and detention centers. And they are booked solid.

If you don't like the laws. Tell Congress to get off their lazy asses and fix it.

It's very interesting that desiring for immigrants to come here legally makes one racist and heartless.

 

[eagle1462010]

These same conditions were present under Obama. Where was the concern then........ But he just let them go. I posted info about that.

Really? Explain.

Same beds. Same human trafficking. Same overcrowding. Same detention process

Those are your opinions. But you don't give any proof. So your comments can be dismissed for good.

Whatever.

 

[Doc1]

These same conditions were present under Obama. Where was the concern then........ But he just let them go. I posted info about that.

Really? Explain.

Same beds. Same human trafficking. Same overcrowding. Same detention process

Those are your opinions. But you don't give any proof. So your comments can be dismissed for good.

Say's the infant WHO never posts a source for anything? Pardon us for never taking you seriously.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I see you got the word. I can't respond beyond opinion until we get more than opinion.

 

[Doc1]

And you remain the hypocrite for demanding it of someone else. You aren't getting any better at this.

 

[eagle1462010]

I see you got the word. I can't respond beyond opinion until we get more than opinion.

Your liberal skirt is showing again fakey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's not a fair comparison. No one is goes to jail for 20 years for unlawful entry into the US or unlawful presence. There is no reason why parents should be separated from their children while they are being detained. They can be held in family detention centers. If the adults are convicted of a crime and sent to prison, then the children should should be turned over to an agency for placement. If they are deported they should be turned back over to parents.

Separating these children from their parents is a disaster waiting to happen particular with the younger kids. The Trump administration has made separating kids of detained parents a policy which means there're going have thousands of them. When these kids start turning up missing or worse and can't be returned to the parents, the democrats will have a field day.

OK so we could ask the question >> if an American couple are arrested for some white collar misdemeanor, and are sentenced to 6 months in a federal prison, and they have a 1 year old child, should that kid should be in their prison cell with them, for that 6 months time ? (so as to prevent their separation ?)
Is this opposition to separation only for foreigners ?

And no, the Trump administration has not made separating kids of detained parents, a policy. It has always been the policy for kids of criminal parents to stay home, while parent serves time. Been that way for 200+ years in America,

Again, your comparison is invalid. Young children taken from American parents typical have a support structure of relatives, friends, and schools that will care for them while their parents are away. That is rarely the case with undocumented immigrants newly arrived in America. If the children are removed while parents are in detention they are typically placed with other immigrant families often undocumented and passed on to others to be lost in the system. This is a traumatic event in the lives of the children that often does irreparable damage. And it is so unnecessary. ICE has family detention centers established by congress in 2006. Also, there are tens of thousands of vacant FEMA trailers scatter all over the country that can be used for detention.

I have never suggested that children be placed in prison with parents. The children should stay with their parents while they are being detained in family detention centers. If a judge decides the parents should spend 6 mos in prison then the children should be remove. However, since most of the parents will be 1st time offenders they will be deported without prison time.

The intention of the Trump administration is to punish the parents by taking the children away. This is an old tactic that works, hold the kids hostage and you'll get whatever you want from their parents.

I doubt these people care two-shits about these kids. If they did, they never would have brought these children with them. If I decided I was going to take a very dangerous journey across Mexico and maybe end up having my kids taken away, then I'm going alone and will send for them later unless they are really not my kids and I don't really care about them.

If you were leaving a dangerous, violent, lawless environment To save your kids, why on earth would you leave them behind?

Because it would be a lot safer than taking them with me. I couldn't stand the thought of some drug lord taking my 11 year old daughter and raping her right in front of me. I'll leave my kids with another adult member of the family before I'd risk that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's not a fair comparison. No one is goes to jail for 20 years for unlawful entry into the US or unlawful presence. There is no reason why parents should be separated from their children while they are being detained. They can be held in family detention centers. If the adults are convicted of a crime and sent to prison, then the children should should be turned over to an agency for placement. If they are deported they should be turned back over to parents.

Separating these children from their parents is a disaster waiting to happen particular with the younger kids. The Trump administration has made separating kids of detained parents a policy which means there're going have thousands of them. When these kids start turning up missing or worse and can't be returned to the parents, the democrats will have a field day.

OK so we could ask the question >> if an American couple are arrested for some white collar misdemeanor, and are sentenced to 6 months in a federal prison, and they have a 1 year old child, should that kid should be in their prison cell with them, for that 6 months time ? (so as to prevent their separation ?)
Is this opposition to separation only for foreigners ?

And no, the Trump administration has not made separating kids of detained parents, a policy. It has always been the policy for kids of criminal parents to stay home, while parent serves time. Been that way for 200+ years in America,

Again, your comparison is invalid. Young children taken from American parents typical have a support structure of relatives, friends, and schools that will care for them while their parents are away. That is rarely the case with undocumented immigrants newly arrived in America. If the children are removed while parents are in detention they are typically placed with other immigrant families often undocumented and passed on to others to be lost in the system. This is a traumatic event in the lives of the children that often does irreparable damage. And it is so unnecessary. ICE has family detention centers established by congress in 2006. Also, there are tens of thousands of vacant FEMA trailers scatter all over the country that can be used for detention.

I have never suggested that children be placed in prison with parents. The children should stay with their parents while they are being detained in family detention centers. If a judge decides the parents should spend 6 mos in prison then the children should be remove. However, since most of the parents will be 1st time offenders they will be deported without prison time.

The intention of the Trump administration is to punish the parents by taking the children away. This is an old tactic that works, hold the kids hostage and you'll get whatever you want from their parents.

I doubt these people care two-shits about these kids. If they did, they never would have brought these children with them. If I decided I was going to take a very dangerous journey across Mexico and maybe end up having my kids taken away, then I'm going alone and will send for them later unless they are really not my kids and I don't really care about them.

Well, they can't exactly send them off to a Swiss boarding school or leave them with their rich aunt. So they do the same thing immigrants to America have done for over two centuries. They pack of the family and take their chances at new life in America.

It's one thing to hop on a boat with your family and head for America, it's another thing to crawl through desert lands with barely enough food and water with criminals behind every rock.

The only advantage of taking children with you is to draw sympathy from the countrymen of America as they obviously have done.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

one of the problems with these imported is that many still view 'mexico' and south america as their homelands and when in the USA they are just a short hop skip and jump away from their homelands . As far as TV , they all have 'dishes' that recieve tv from their homelands . As far as language , they have ghettos full of imports that ALL speak 'spanish' and most are catholic . Just a few comments Flopper .

I think what you are seeing is undocumented immigrants that exist in many families of legal immigrants. Undocumented immigrant do not assimilate primarily because they are undocumented. They live in a subculture dominated by secrecy and fear. They have to avoid associating with strangers, joining organizations that would call attentions to themselves. Avoid employment in places that are unsafe. Avoid the police. Keep their children away from other kids believed to be unsafe. Stay in areas where their are many Latinos. Also, family members that are legal citizens have to be careful not to expose the family to unwanted attention. This is why so many undocumented immigrants hope to return someday to their country of origin so they can be free of the fear. As the Mexican economy has improved over the last few years, many are doing just that.

Assimilation is one of the major benefits of legalization. Millions of people would be able to join the America culture, improve their education, get better jobs, open new businesses, and take part in their community.

Undocumented immigrants is such a cute phrase. It's like calling your neighborhood pusher an unlicensed pharmacist.

You are correct, they eventually do return home, after they've worked here, send most of their money back over the border, and all our US dollars are over there making their lives much easier.

 

[Pop23]

Nothing new here. Been going on for a hundred years.

And yes, if our citizens enter another country illegally, then I’m ok with them separating child from parent

 

[JakeStarkey]

Good for you, Pop. I disagree, because they are presenting themselves at the border legally.

 

[Andylusion]

Most of us have never had to.

Nor have we lived under the conditions and violence in those countries. In fact many of us have ancestors that came here fleeing those kinds of things.

Sure sounds like a nice story though.

It's not a story. Ever hear of the Civil War?

Just because most of us never had to doesn't mean nobody did. We lost a lot of Americans to create and maintain this great place we call America. But that doesn't mean this great place is open to the world. What you want is never ending immigration until the point these people take over our country and turn it into one of theirs which will happen if we don't have massive restrictions on our borders.

We don't have 12 million illegals here because we did enough, we have them because at times we didn't do anything. It's about time we start.

What you are saying is exactly what was said about every other immigration group - they don't assimilate. Yet they do. I'm tired of the constant (and false) argument that if I oppose certain policies I MUST be for open borders and unrestricted immigration.

I'm not.

Oh, sure they assimilate. Why didn't I have to press 1 on my phone to speak our language 20 years ago? Why were signs on the doors in English only 20 years ago and not today? Why do they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I vote; something they never had to ask 20 years ago?

I'm a truck driver and run into a lot of foreigners who are taking American jobs and keeping our wages low. Many of them don't know a word of English, yet they are on the road driving right next to your minivan on our highways with a 75,000 lbs killing machine.

Many of them are not assimilating. They are changing our country instead.

On this I actually agree with Ray.

If you immigrate to Germany, you are required.... REQUIRED.... to learn German. It's not an option. You must do it.

If you go to Denmark, you are required to learn how to swim with co-eds. It's not an option. You must do it.

Why? Because in Germany they speak German, and you need to learn German to be a productive useful citizen that is not a burden on the country. Because in Denmark, there are waterways everywhere, and in order to both be able to save yourself, and your fellow citizens, no matter what gender you are, or they are, you need to know how to swim and save people.

I mention both of these, because both of these countries have deported immigrants who refused to learn German, or learn how to swim with co-eds.

There was some Muslim women that went to Denmark with her family, but refused to learn how to swim. They shipped her butt back to where she came from, and rightly so. There was a Muslim man who refused to learn German because Arabic is all he needed. They shipped his butt back to where he came from.

So where I differ from the right-wingers on here, is that I have no problem at all, with immigrants coming to this country. I find most of the immigrants, with some exceptions, to be wonderful people that I love coming here, and I am particular to Christian immigrants.

However, where I agree with the right-wing completely and if it were up to me, I'd have it be required by law, is that they MUST INTEGRATE. They must learn English, they must learn US customs. They need to learn to how to take a bath. They need to learn how to speak and read properly.

This is one of the very few areas, that I actually support Federal programs for it. Generally I'm against all Federal programs, but I would be supportive of a program for teaching basic American etiquette, and American language. (meaning American English).

You want to come here? Great! Fantastic. Come on in, but you dump your culture that you came from, and you adapt to American Culture. None of this multi-cultural crap that hasn't worked for the last 50+ years. You come here, that's wonderful, but you become an American. You don't want to? That's fine. Stay where you are. You can come when you want to be an American.

The problem is they don't come here to be American, they come here to use America.

We don't have as much of a problem with immigrants up north as they do in the south, but from what I understand, they pack 12 people in a two bedroom house and after all expenses are met, they send the rest of their money back over the border.

We do have a system for integration, and that is to only allow 1 million people a year to come here. At one point in the early 1900's they just about closed down the border to allow people to assimilate because they were getting like the immigrants that are here today and changing the country.

I could not possibly care less about that.

What business is it of mine what they do with their money? The irrelevance of that question is a core fundamental of right-wing ideology. We don't give a crap what people do with the money they rightfully earn.

I don't start dictating what you do with your money. You don't care what I do with my money. We don't complain about what rich people do with their money.

That whole thing, is a left-wing belief system. That's why left-wingers demand regulations and controls on every aspect of our lives, like what light bulb you can buy, what car you can buy, whether you have solar panels on your roof, or what investment bank you use.

We don't do that.

So I don't give a flying crap, what a Mexican immigrant does with the money he earns. I personally send thousands of dollars overseas every year in charity. What business is that of yours, or anyone else?

Nonya.

Now as far as why they come here.... doesn't matter as long as we have them learn English and American customs.

Who cares? What difference does that make?

Are they producing goods and services in the US? IF yes, then that is a benefit to the entire country.

Even if they were burying money in the back yard, their production alone is a benefit.

Now as for the money.... economically speaking, it doesn't matter where the money goes (as long as it isn't government).

It doesn't matter if it goes to Canada, Mexico, Zimbabwe, Russia, China, Japan, or anywhere.

Where ever the money goes, it must come back. It has to. I have relatives that lived in Mexico. Not one said they could use a US dollar, at a Mexican store. They only take pesos. That means they can't use US dollars in Mexico. They have to exchange for Pesos. What does the bank do with it? They can't Pesos for Dollars, to companies that want to import stuff from the US. The money comes back.

By the way, it has to come back, or the economy would be empty of US dollars by now. The trade deficit has been larger than the total amount of US dollars in the world, for decades. If the dollars did not come back, there wouldn't be a single US dollar in the entire US, for decades.

So whether they send most of their money back to Mexico, doesn't matter. It all comes back, it all benefits the US.