What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[rylah]

By sending Fadayeen fighters beyond that line to massacre Israelis.
Can't you read your own links?

Maybe that's why you rely so much on cheap demagoguery.

I already stated that both sides were guilty of violating the line and have shown , from two different sources , the UN and Moshe Dayan , that the Israelis violated more than anyone else.

I showed the UN evidence of attacks ( " aggression " ) by Israelis and the fact the Israeli claims about Arab forces were shown to be false and also that they never even bothered to attend the meetings themselves

You want people to believe the BS / lie that the opposite was true and have provided precisely zilch to back it yet here you are trying to criticize others lol

No you just say that, but your own links show otherwise,
nowhere you brought a comparison including these facts.

Cheap demagoguery.

I have supplied one link on this and that is from the UN. I can supply a link to the Moshe Dayan comments about Israel initiating around 80% of the border skirmishes with Syria prior to the 67 war.

You have provided FA and have lied about the one link I supplied

Try again and show where the UN link doesn't state what I claimed it stated or just admit you are making it up as you go along . Spouting " foul " because you don't like the content is pathetic and not even worthy of the term discussion

No I get it, you think the "UN" is a word that magically turns your bs into divine revelation.
And when facts don't fit we jump to discussing Syria.

Where are you taking dance lessons?

 

[Spartacactcus]

Israel did not acquire land through warfare. Immediately after the Six Day War, Israel offered to return the land it had captured while pursuing Arab armies in exchange for peace. 242 only required Israel withdraw to safe and secure borders, not to the pre war border, and safe and secure borders means either a credible peace or keeping some of the captured land as a buffer zone since Israel has no strategic depth to protect it against an attack.

So Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt but only on condition that Egypt severely restrict the military forces it stationed in Sinai. Judea adn Samaria did not fall under the terms of 242, nonetheless Israel offered to turn over to the PA 93% of Judea and Samaria but only with conditions that would protect Israel from continuing Palestinian terrorist attacks and against a military force that might come through Jordan and Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians responded with the second intifada. For at least the last thirty years every Israeli PM, including Netanyahu, has been in negotiations with Syria offering to return the Golan in exchange for peace, but Syria has rejected all offers, which by any reasonable standard means Syria has abandoned its claim to the Golan.

Are you a professional liar in RL too ?

Let's cut out the chaff from the above and deconstruct the dihonesty contained within

comment 1 of yours

" 242 only required Israel withdraw to safe and secure borders, not to the pre war border,"

You are splicing together two seperate parts of 242 so as to create a lie about what it states.

Here's the parts you have spliced together how they ACTUALLY appear

" (i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force; "

It's a deliberate attempt to dishonestly frame what 242 actually states

It calls for a withdrawal of Israeli forces from the territories occupied in the recent conflict THEN it goes on to say the stuff about working towards " secure " borders for EVERY state.

There are other lies and misrepresentations but I have to go out for a while and will systematically go through the dishonest BS you try to peddle as informed opinion

 

[Spartacactcus]

No I get it, you think the "UN" is a word that magically turns your bs into divine revelation.
And when facts don't fit we jump to discussing Syria.

Where are you taking dance lessons?

See , when you are asked to put up or shut up you just carry on regardless.

You claimed my link actually refuted what I claimed. It didn't and when I asked you to show evidence you chose to double down on that dishonesty

Additioally I used the words of Moshe Dayan to support my claim , which was just a repeat of his claim , and you dishonestly decide to make out that I just used the UN

The use of Syria was legitimate because it was actually YOUR introduction when you decided to cite " Arab govts" Note that means the relevant Arab governments involved in the armistice agreements which would include ? Syria

If I ever decide to take up the dancing lessons I will be sure to find out where you have been getting yours , it seems like the best dance school around

 

[Shusha]

They already have the power to take actions including the use of force against any member state and that's what I was referring to , so no new powers are required.They don't have to be forced into it but refusal to cooperate in the spirit of good faith negotiations could and should bring into play the very mechanisms some other states have had to endure for their violations. You don't get away with it just because you are the Jewish state and that's what you people really do believe should be the case imo

The UN could choose to impose sanctions , embargoes , the use of peace keeping forces. To think pariah states are ever going to be dealt with without some consequences for their lawbreaking and/or unwillingness to commit to peace agreements in a reasonable way should have consequences and do have consequences. Even when it's the Jewish state , shock horror!!

First, you would have to demonstrate how Israel is violating international law and what is entailed in their "lawbreaking" or failure to commit to peace agreements.

You've utterly failed to do that so far.

Again, the UN can enforce boundaries, but it can not make them.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, there was nothing in your comment to support what you claim. The Egyptian preparations for war were clear. The intended blockade of the Strait was defined by Israel as an act of war and that act was carried out with the blockade and claimed mining of the waterway by the Egyptians.

Why wouldn't Egypt prepare for a war in the face on an impending attack against another Arab state by Israel to which it was in a mutual defence pact ?

That state was Syria of which none other than Moshe Dayan has since claimed that the Israeli side were responsible for initiating around 80% of the border skirmishes with Syria that led to the tension prior to the movement of Egyptian troops.

The Israelis might have claimed the closure of the Straits of Tiran constituted an at of war but the right of passage in the law only refers to right of " innocent " passage. No country has the legal right to use the waterways of another country it is threatening or intends to attack, so the seizure/searching of vessels by the navy of a country within its territorial waters is wholly reasonable.

I could show you a whole raft of other data that undermines the claim that the leaders of the state of Israel thought the Egyptian preparations were not indicative of an impending attack but you have already made your mind up , clearly. It's those pesky Arabs , it's always those pesky Arabs.

That bigotry was never reasoned in so will not be reasoned out

You offered nothing to indicate that Israel was preparing an impending attack. All indications are that Israel was preparing a defense against hostile Arab-Moslem armies with an announced goal of destroying Israel.

You chose to ignore that Israel had indicated a closure of the Strait would constitute an act of war. You also chose to ignore the later mining of the Strait which, in addition to the earlier closure was a tactical war effort to cut off a supply route to Israel.

It’s always those pesky Jews defending themselves from your gee-had.

 

[JoeB131]

He we have the stereotypical Stolen Land slogan barfed out by the slogan’istas. There’s just never any actual facts to identify what land was “stolen”

Palestine. That's what the Jews stole. It wasn't theirs.

Was it why this the was most neglected and impoverished of lands under the Caliphate rule?

The Fertile Crescent, by the way, is not associated with the Arabs, neither were they those who made the region actually the fertile nest of civilization.

It wasn't. Again, this is a nice myth you guys have written, after you incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turks.

 

[Hollie]

He we have the stereotypical Stolen Land slogan barfed out by the slogan’istas. There’s just never any actual facts to identify what land was “stolen”

Palestine. That's what the Jews stole. It wasn't theirs.

Was it why this the was most neglected and impoverished of lands under the Caliphate rule?

The Fertile Crescent, by the way, is not associated with the Arabs, neither were they those who made the region actually the fertile nest of civilization.

It wasn't. Again, this is a nice myth you guys have written, after you incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turks.

No kidding? The Jews stole Palestine?

Aside from your continued retreat to silly slogans, please define how Palestine was stolen and from whom it was stolen.


Your conspiracy theory about magical Jew powers and using those powers to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turks is not really entertaining. It’s just more conspiracy theory rattling.

 

[JoeB131]

No kidding? The Jews stole Palestine?

Aside from your continued retreat to silly slogans, please define how Palestine was stolen and from whom it was stolen.


Your conspiracy theory about magical Jew powers and using those powers to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turks is not really entertaining. It’s just more conspiracy theory rattling.

Um, no, it's history. The British incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence. INstead, they turned most of the territories into British and French Colonies. Then they passed the Balfour Declaration, to try to resettle the Jews of Europe in Palestine. It was a two-fer. You rid Europe of Jews, and you get people willing to do your colonizing for you.

Funny thing. Between 1919 and 1945, not a whole lot of them were willing to go in there and do it. Until Hitler came up with his own plan to rid Europe of Jews,t hen they were all keen on it. Sadly, those pesky Palestinians, they actually still were on the land.

And this is the problem with the Zionist Entity. It was ALWAYS a bad idea. But sometimes in the heat of the moment, people go along with bad ideas because they feel bad. Everyone felt bad after WWII. But instead of giving them a chunk of Europe to call their very own, they gave them a chunk of the middle east that wasn't really theirs to give away.

 

[Hollie]

No kidding? The Jews stole Palestine?

Aside from your continued retreat to silly slogans, please define how Palestine was stolen and from whom it was stolen.


Your conspiracy theory about magical Jew powers and using those powers to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turks is not really entertaining. It’s just more conspiracy theory rattling.

Um, no, it's history. The British incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence. INstead, they turned most of the territories into British and French Colonies. Then they passed the Balfour Declaration, to try to resettle the Jews of Europe in Palestine. It was a two-fer. You rid Europe of Jews, and you get people willing to do your colonizing for you.

Funny thing. Between 1919 and 1945, not a whole lot of them were willing to go in there and do it. Until Hitler came up with his own plan to rid Europe of Jews,t hen they were all keen on it. Sadly, those pesky Palestinians, they actually still were on the land.

And this is the problem with the Zionist Entity. It was ALWAYS a bad idea. But sometimes in the heat of the moment, people go along with bad ideas because they feel bad. Everyone felt bad after WWII. But instead of giving them a chunk of Europe to call their very own, they gave them a chunk of the middle east that wasn't really theirs to give away.

I was sure with a little nudge you would move from The Zionists to
The Zionist Entity.

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

I was hoping you could better define your earlier conspiracy theory, something about a stolen Palestine and magical Jew powers.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

I was never aware that the Brits reported Palestine being stolen. If the Jews, by way of the magical Jew powers, stole Palestine, I’d have thought the Brits would have reported that to, you know, the Palestine police.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No kidding? The Jews stole Palestine?

Aside from your continued retreat to silly slogans, please define how Palestine was stolen and from whom it was stolen.


Your conspiracy theory about magical Jew powers and using those powers to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turks is not really entertaining. It’s just more conspiracy theory rattling.

Um, no, it's history. The British incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence. INstead, they turned most of the territories into British and French Colonies. Then they passed the Balfour Declaration, to try to resettle the Jews of Europe in Palestine. It was a two-fer. You rid Europe of Jews, and you get people willing to do your colonizing for you.

Funny thing. Between 1919 and 1945, not a whole lot of them were willing to go in there and do it. Until Hitler came up with his own plan to rid Europe of Jews,t hen they were all keen on it. Sadly, those pesky Palestinians, they actually still were on the land.

And this is the problem with the Zionist Entity. It was ALWAYS a bad idea. But sometimes in the heat of the moment, people go along with bad ideas because they feel bad. Everyone felt bad after WWII. But instead of giving them a chunk of Europe to call their very own, they gave them a chunk of the middle east that wasn't really theirs to give away.

I was sure with a little nudge you would move from The Zionists to
The Zionist Entity.

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

I was hoping you could better define your earlier conspiracy theory, something about a stolen Palestine and magical Jew powers.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

I was never aware that the Brits reported Palestine being stolen. If the Jews, by way of the magical Jew powers, stole Palestine, I’d have thought the Brits would have reported that to, you know, the Palestine police.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

That is misleading. The rights and title were released to Palestine. The Mandate did not commence until about three months after the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne. Palestine had to exist before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

No kidding? The Jews stole Palestine?

Aside from your continued retreat to silly slogans, please define how Palestine was stolen and from whom it was stolen.


Your conspiracy theory about magical Jew powers and using those powers to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turks is not really entertaining. It’s just more conspiracy theory rattling.

Um, no, it's history. The British incited the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence. INstead, they turned most of the territories into British and French Colonies. Then they passed the Balfour Declaration, to try to resettle the Jews of Europe in Palestine. It was a two-fer. You rid Europe of Jews, and you get people willing to do your colonizing for you.

Funny thing. Between 1919 and 1945, not a whole lot of them were willing to go in there and do it. Until Hitler came up with his own plan to rid Europe of Jews,t hen they were all keen on it. Sadly, those pesky Palestinians, they actually still were on the land.

And this is the problem with the Zionist Entity. It was ALWAYS a bad idea. But sometimes in the heat of the moment, people go along with bad ideas because they feel bad. Everyone felt bad after WWII. But instead of giving them a chunk of Europe to call their very own, they gave them a chunk of the middle east that wasn't really theirs to give away.

I was sure with a little nudge you would move from The Zionists to
The Zionist Entity.

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

I was hoping you could better define your earlier conspiracy theory, something about a stolen Palestine and magical Jew powers.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

I was never aware that the Brits reported Palestine being stolen. If the Jews, by way of the magical Jew powers, stole Palestine, I’d have thought the Brits would have reported that to, you know, the Palestine police.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

That is misleading. The rights and title were released to Palestine. The Mandate did not commence until about three months after the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne. Palestine had to exist before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.

Yes, yes, yes. The Treaty of Lausanne invented your Magical Kingdom of Pal’istan” (Where Dreams Come True”).

Thanks.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It is a terrible idea for Israel. They would just end up being the next Lebanon.

Lebanon was formed as the Christian country of the Middle east, and despite the precautions set into place to try to protect that, Muslims simply bred themselves into a position of dominance and the country has suffered. Beirut was called the Paris of the middle east when I was young, but now it is just another Islamic shit hole.

Jewish Israelis are fooling themselves if they don't understand the same thing will happen to them as happened to the Lebanese Christians. Within a generation or two they would be a persecuted minority.

Yep, the scourge of religion, on display. There should be no religious countries on the planet.

 

[Spartacactcus]

Immediately after the Six Day War, Israel offered to return the land it had captured while pursuing Arab armies in exchange for peace.
.

BS claim 2

Who did it make the " offer " to ? Not the UN or the Arabs but to the US in view of the fear that the US would tell them at the UN to get out again as they had in 1956. Correct?

And which part of those territories occupied did it NOT include in those proposed withdrawals ? The West Bank

So when you say it made an offer, you try to decieve people that this was a public offer , like you have tried to deceive them about 242, you don't mention it was a private offer to the US .

That "offer " also excluded the West Bank didn't it ? So when you say Israel offered to " return the land it had captured " you are lying again ?

 

[Spartacactcus]

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

It's not conspiracy theory it is a reference to the McMahon Correspondents that preceeded the Balfour Declaration

I thought you were supposed to be knowledgeable about this subject

 

[Hollie]

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

It's not conspiracy theory it is a reference to the McMahon Correspondents that preceeded the Balfour Declaration

I thought you were supposed to be knowledgeable about this subject

You might have been referring to the McMahon correspondence. Those letters don't support your conspiracy theory about the British fomenting an Arab revolt.

If you were knowledgeable about the subject, you would know that.

At any rate, it has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It is a terrible idea for Israel. They would just end up being the next Lebanon.

Lebanon was formed as the Christian country of the Middle east, and despite the precautions set into place to try to protect that, Muslims simply bred themselves into a position of dominance and the country has suffered. Beirut was called the Paris of the middle east when I was young, but now it is just another Islamic shit hole.

Jewish Israelis are fooling themselves if they don't understand the same thing will happen to them as happened to the Lebanese Christians. Within a generation or two they would be a persecuted minority.

Yep, the scourge of religion, on display. There should be no religious countries on the planet.

You are incredibly stupid.

There are countless countries that describe themselves as Islamic republics. There is only one country that represents the aspirations of the Jewish ethnicity, however.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote
⁜→ Dogmaphobe, et al,

Well, you are almost correct.

You are incredibly stupid.

(COMMENT)

I started to mark your Post as one I agree with, but I felt that I might be endorsing this comment directed against a person rather than their content or the position they are maintaining.

There are countless countries that describe themselves as Islamic republics. There is only one country that represents the aspirations of the Jewish ethnicity, however.

(COMMENT)

Well, you are almost correct, but you forget that Jewish Autonomous Oblast (JAO), a province (one of a number of smaller nations) within the Far East District, Russian Federation.

The JAO is about six times larger than the West Bank. And the JOA is ≈ 36000 km² → whereas Israel is just over half the size of the Oblast (≈ 20770 km²).


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[JoeB131]

I was sure with a little nudge you would move from The Zionists to
The Zionist Entity.

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

I was hoping you could better define your earlier conspiracy theory, something about a stolen Palestine and magical Jew powers.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

I was never aware that the Brits reported Palestine being stolen. If the Jews, by way of the magical Jew powers, stole Palestine, I’d have thought the Brits would have reported that to, you know, the Palestine police.

Again, honey, imperialism is not a good thing... The British promised the Arabs independence, they turned them into colonies and imported a bunch of Zionists to do their dirty work.

 

[JoeB131]

You are incredibly stupid.

There are countless countries that describe themselves as Islamic republics. There is only one country that represents the aspirations of the Jewish ethnicity, however.

That's awesome. The countries that call themselves "Islamic Republics" (actually just Iran, but never mind) are places that Muslims have been the majority for hundreds of years.

They didn't have to import them from Europe to steal someone else's land

 

[Hollie]

I was sure with a little nudge you would move from The Zionists to
The Zionist Entity.

Your lates5 conspiracy theory about the British seeking to incite the Arabs to revolt against the Turk with the promise of independence is a slightly revised version of your earlier conspiracy theory. Making up conspiracy theories as you go along tends to color your comments as disjointed and nonsensical.

I was hoping you could better define your earlier conspiracy theory, something about a stolen Palestine and magical Jew powers.

Last I read, the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was, at one time under the sovereign control of the Turks who released all rights and title to the territory, to be administered by the British Mandate.

I was never aware that the Brits reported Palestine being stolen. If the Jews, by way of the magical Jew powers, stole Palestine, I’d have thought the Brits would have reported that to, you know, the Palestine police.

Again, honey, imperialism is not a good thing... The British promised the Arabs independence, they turned them into colonies and imported a bunch of Zionists to do their dirty work.

That’s just a repeat of your usual conspiracy theory.