What is a Patriot?

[Billo_Really]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

I don't support the military murdering innocent civilians in my name.

That's not what this country is about. That is not patriotic.

 

[USNavyVet]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

I don't support the military murdering innocent civilians in my name.

That's not what this country is about. That is not patriotic.

I never said it was.

 

[Sallow]

So you don't think nationalists can be patriots? I think being a nationalist makes it easier to be a patriot because you automatically want what's best for your country and put it above you.

While I think liberals, the left, or whatever you want to call them can certainly be patriotic, I think their constant attacks on the military and veterans negates their patriotism. To me there are many patriots but our military is filled with them and to attack those individuals the way the Democrats/left/liberals do, in my opinion, ensures that the attacker is not a patriot.

You think protesting a war is un-patriotic?

I think putting the military in harms way over made up lies and pure BS is un-patriotic.

I support the military by wanting them home with their families.

I don't support them murdering innocent civilians and making jokes as they're doing it.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZNJm35V2_0]Collateral Murder: WikiLeaks bombshell 'killing' video goes online - YouTube[/ame]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Which President fought the Nazis?

 

[Billo_Really]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

You say you support the military and are a navy vet. Let's put that to the test.

What is your position on the USS Liberty?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Patriot. You hear this word spoken all the time in American politics. Yet there seems to be so many definitions attributed to it. On one hand, you have Conservatives/Republicans/Libertarians defining a patriot who extols the will of our Constitution. Or a soldier on the battlefield defending our freedom. On the other, you have Liberals/Democrats/Progressives defining patriotism as helping the poor, educating our children and offering change to the country that would better suit the collective. An activist standing up for the rights of others. You hear the word bandied about and abused as a weapon or a tool for the disparagement of others in the political arena. But does anyone know what a real patriot is?

I was taught that patriotism was something resulting in love of country over self. I still believe that. I love my country, even in the sordid state of affairs it's in right now. But there are so many ways people define a Patriot. Many people when they hear the term, conjure up images of George Washington crossing the Delaware River or the First Continental Congress signing the Declaration of Independence. But nobody knows what a real patriot is, neither side has it right. To be a patriot is to be devoted to your country and her citizens, through thick and thin, to love her and cherish her like the finest cut diamond.

Patriotism isn't something which can be linked to political viewpoints. It is blasphemous to suggest such. If one questions anothers patriotism, is it for disagreement in politics? If it is, the one is a fool, for he knows not the true meaning of patriotism. If one questions anothers patriotism, is it for gauging their love of country? If it is, then the one is enlightened, knowing full well the meaning of what it takes to be a patriot.

My question to you:

Do you know what makes a patriot?

A patriot is someone who does things out of a sake of duty to his country, not for personal profit or gain. A patriot is someone who's willing to say things many people don't want to hear, because he knows it is the right thing to do for his country. A patriot is someone who stays true to the principles his country was founded upon.

We were not founded upon the principles of "enhanced interrogation", indefinate detention and military aggression. We were founded upon the principles of a man is innocent until proven guilty, the right to voice our dissent with government and everyone shall be given due process of law. We are a country based on the rule of law. Demonstrating respect for the law, is being patriotic. Supporting armed aggression against country's in violation of that law, is not being patriotic. Supporting a persons right to disagree with you, is being patriotic. Shouting down someone else's opinion because you don't like to hear it, is not being patriotic.

This might sound corny, but truth and justice, is the American way.

Demonstrating respect for the law is patriotic? To what extent do you "demonstrate respect for the law"? To be patriotic would be knowing when those laws are unjust and tyrannical. To "demonstrate respect for the law" without question is nothing more than slavery. Now if you were unhappy with people "supporting armed aggression towards another country that is violation of the law" then where where you when Obama attacked Libya? Or Yemen? Or Pakistan? Was Obama being patriotic?

Why is it you say "shouting down down someone else's opinion because you don't like to hear it" is unpatriotic, when just recently Obama's friends from Organizing for America tried to shout down Ted Cruz at the Values Voters Summit this past Friday? Were they supporting his right to disagree?

And when you suggest that "everyone should be given due process of law" just who is 'everyone'? Illegals? Foreign terrorists? That's odd. That is unpatriotic.

Forgive me if I call bullshit on your reply.

 

[Sallow]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

I don't support the military murdering innocent civilians in my name.

That's not what this country is about. That is not patriotic.

I never said it was.

Sure you did.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

I don't support the military murdering innocent civilians in my name.

That's not what this country is about. That is not patriotic.

Mmmhmm.. then what about all those drone strikes Obama ordered? They've killed hundreds of children so far. Have you spoken out against them?

 

[Londoner]

A patriot is business man.

The business man wants cheaper labor so he can produce higher returns for his investors. (This is called "getting incentives right").

The businessman gets those higher returns when his products are made in dictator-lead freedom-hating nations by workers who make $5/day.

So the business man funds elections (and he lobbies Washington) so that he can create the legislative machinery to globalize production (so he can benefit from cheaper labor costs. He does this even though it leads to the dispossession of American workers, who can't survive on the labor rates he gets in places like Taiwan. So it's not like the businessman just needs tax incentives to bring jobs back - rather, he needs an exploited working class that just makes $5/day).

UNFORTUNATELY the businessman has a problem. He needs to get the American workers whom he dispossessed to vote for the politicians who will take care of investors/owners (by shipping jobs to places like China). So he funds a propaganda system which employs people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin to use the Culture War (religion, patriotism, terrorism, the gay agenda, atheists, "Real Americans!") to get average Americans to vote for the "right people".

Patriotism is used by the Right to get American citizens to vote for their own dispossession. It is funded by the same people who profit by shipping their jobs to Communist China.

The OP is one of the ones being manipulated.

 

[USNavyVet]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

You say you support the military and are a navy vet. Let's put that to the test.

What is your position on the USS Liberty?

I wasn't n the USS Liberty and there are the official transcripts of what happened and the conspiracy theories. If conspiracies are your thing there's a forum for that.

 

[Billo_Really]

I never said it was.

Then you must be part of the 90% of the military that does it's job in a professional and responsible manner.

That's the part I support.

 

[Sallow]

I think attacking the military is unpatriotic. Not supporting the military as they perform their duties is unpatriotic. I didn't think this would be hard to understand.

I don't support the military murdering innocent civilians in my name.

That's not what this country is about. That is not patriotic.

Mmmhmm.. then what about all those drone strikes Obama ordered. They've killed hundreds of children so far.

So you want to repeal the AUMF and introduce a clause to the war powers act that states a President may not order strikes against a country which has not attacked us, and respect borders even if they are hiding terrorists?

That's pretty bold.

 

[Billo_Really]

I wasn't n the USS Liberty and there are the official transcripts of what happened and the conspiracy theories. If conspiracies are your thing there's a forum for that.

I believe the testimony's of the sailors who were there, not some damage control report in Washington written way after the fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Balance and common sense, please, are part of patriotism.

One or two folks at the Cruz venue were escorted out immediately: they way it should be.

At our town meetings in summer 2009, we have a crowd of 12 to 15 who began shouting. They were told before hand that handcuffs, a JP hearing, and a police insurance bond was their future if they did so. After warning, we still had to have three led out in cuffs to their hearing and posting of bonds.

Who were the patriots? Those who disrupted Cruz or those who disrupted the town meeting.

I would suggest neither.

Part of patriotism in our system is the understanding that those who disagree with you have the right to their forums without disruption.

 

[USNavyVet]

I wasn't n the USS Liberty and there are the official transcripts of what happened and the conspiracy theories. If conspiracies are your thing there's a forum for that.

I believe the testimony's of the sailors who were there, not some damage control report in Washington written way after the fact.

I don't see how that proves one's patriotism.

 

[Billo_Really]

Mmmhmm.. then what about all those drone strikes Obama ordered? They've killed hundreds of children so far. Have you spoken out against them?

You bet your ass I have!

And I'm not done bitching about them either.

This is one subject Bush will not be blamed for. This is all Obama. Lock, stock and barrell and I find it disgusting.

 

[Billo_Really]

I don't see how that proves one's patriotism.

It proves my support for the military.

 

[Sallow]

Mmmhmm.. then what about all those drone strikes Obama ordered? They've killed hundreds of children so far. Have you spoken out against them?

You bet your ass I have!

And I'm not done bitching about them either.

This is one subject Bush will not be blamed for. This is all Obama. Lock, stock and barrell and I find it disgusting.

The AUMF is not Bush's baby?

 

[Billo_Really]

Balance and common sense, please, are part of patriotism.

One or two folks at the Cruz venue were escorted out immediately: they way it should be.

At our town meetings in summer 2009, we have a crowd of 12 to 15 who began shouting. They were told before hand that handcuffs, a JP hearing, and a police insurance bond was their future if they did so. After warning, we still had to have three led out in cuffs to their hearing and posting of bonds.

Who were the patriots? Those who disrupted Cruz or those who disrupted the town meeting.

I would suggest neither.

Part of patriotism in our system is the understanding that those who disagree with you have the right to their forums without disruption.

People shouting and not giving others the right to voice their opinion, are not patriots.

 

[USNavyVet]

I don't see how that proves one's patriotism.

It proves my support for the military.

I don't agree. Your stance on one issue that is controversial proves nothing. Now if you supported/opposed the Mai Lai massacres that would have meaning. Not a controversy there.

 

[Billo_Really]

The AUMF is not Bush's baby?

That is. Using drones isn't.