What is a small government libertarian?

[Contumacious]

Weird, you know the 13 Colonies WERE Corps right? BUT you 'think' the US Founders would be OK with the current Corps are people and money is speech nonsense? lol

Apparently you believe that statement proves me wrong.

No what proved you wrong was your 'belief' that the rail system was created without Gov't subsidies this was more of a question you blew off!

Dingleberry Sir:


Crony Capitalism and the Transcontinental Railroads


"the first transcontinentals were all creatures, not of capitalism or the private markets, but of government. There simply were not enough people, capital, manufactured goods, or crops between Missouri and the West coast to support a private-sector railroad."

 

[Dad2three]

Wow.... you haven't heard that we disagree with them? Do you pay NO attention at all?

YOU and a SMALL minority of nutters disagree? OK AND? lol

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

 

[Dad2three]

Apparently you believe that statement proves me wrong.

No what proved you wrong was your 'belief' that the rail system was created without Gov't subsidies this was more of a question you blew off!

Dingleberry Sir:


Crony Capitalism and the Transcontinental Railroads


"the first transcontinentals were all creatures, not of capitalism or the private markets, but of government. There simply were not enough people, capital, manufactured goods, or crops between Missouri and the West coast to support a private-sector railroad."

AND? Yes, like I SAID, Gov't created the rail system in the US...

 

[Contumacious]

YOU and a SMALL minority of nutters disagree? OK AND? lol

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

"Our" government works for parasites like you who hate the work ethic, and vote early and often.

.

 

[dblack]

YOU and a SMALL minority of nutters disagree? OK AND? lol

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

Man. Which school did you get that history minor from? You should ask for a refund.

 

[Contumacious]

No what proved you wrong was your 'belief' that the rail system was created without Gov't subsidies this was more of a question you blew off!

Dingleberry Sir:


Crony Capitalism and the Transcontinental Railroads


"the first transcontinentals were all creatures, not of capitalism or the private markets, but of government. There simply were not enough people, capital, manufactured goods, or crops between Missouri and the West coast to support a private-sector railroad."

AND? Yes, like I SAID, Gov't created the rail system in the US...

AND all those created by the government failed, miuserably.

The ONLY one which survived did not ask , nor accept, federal funds. James J. Hill's Great Northern Railroad "

.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

Man. Which school did you get that history minor from? You should ask for a refund.

So you think nasa, nws and the fda doesn't do anything to improve our lives. You people hate government as you want to be cowboys without anyone telling you what to do. You're like that school bully that wants to do what he wants without the adults telling him what to do!

Jezzz. Reality doesn't follow.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

"Our" government works for parasites like you who hate the work ethic, and vote early and often.

.

You think everyone that works for the public sector is a parasite. Wow...

 

[Dad2three]

[/B]

Dingleberry Sir:


Crony Capitalism and the Transcontinental Railroads


"the first transcontinentals were all creatures, not of capitalism or the private markets, but of government. There simply were not enough people, capital, manufactured goods, or crops between Missouri and the West coast to support a private-sector railroad."

AND? Yes, like I SAID, Gov't created the rail system in the US...

AND all those created by the government failed, miuserably.

The ONLY one which survived did not ask , nor accept, federal funds. James J. Hill's Great Northern Railroad "

.

I WAS HOPING SOME DUMBASS WOULD COME UP WITH THAT (MINOR IN HISTORY REMEMBER?)


Government Intervention, James J. Hill and the Great Northern Railway

James J. Hill is often invoked as a hero by apologists for extreme laissez faire, because his railway was allegedly built completely privately, without any government subsidies or land grants. Unfortunately, there some inconvenient facts the free market ideologues leave out when they discuss Hill and the Great Northern Railway:

(1) Hill acquired a pre-existing railway called the Saint Paul and Pacific Railroad (which was originally charted as the “Minnesota and Pacific Railroad” in 1857) as the starting basis for his Great Northern Railway. The Saint Paul and Pacific Railroad existed because of massive government support:

“In 1857, the territorial legislature of the state of Minnesota issued a charter to the Minnesota and Pacific Railroad to build a standard gauge railway from Stillwater in the east to St. Paul in the west .... The railroad received a grant of 2,460,000 acres (1,000,000 ha) of land from the territorial legislature. This was the seventh largest land grant of the 75 given to railroads nationwide between 1850 and 1871. Construction began in the autumn of 1857, and in 1856 the state backed a $5 million bond issue to support the new rail system. But speculators manipulated the nascent railroad’s profits, overcharged it for supplies, and sold off some of its assets. It went bankrupt in 1860, and the new state legislature purchased all of its assets for a mere $1,000. … In 1862, the state legislature reorganized the bankrupt railroad as the St. Paul and Pacific Railroad.
....
But James J. Hill, who ran steamboats on the Red River, knew that the SP&P owned very valuable land grants and saw the potential of the railroad. Hill convinced John S. Kennedy (a New York City banker who had represented the Dutch bondholders), Norman Kittson (Hill’s friend and a wealthy fur trader), Donald Smith (a Montreal banker and executive with the Hudson’s Bay Company), and George Stephen (Smith’s cousin and a wealthy railroad executive) to invest $5.5 million in purchasing the railroad. On March 13, 1878, the road's creditors formally signed an agreement transferring their bonds and control of the railroad to Hill's investment group. On September 18, 1889, Hill changed the name of the Minneapolis and St. Cloud Railway (a railroad which existed primarily on paper, but which held very extensive land grants throughout the Midwest and Pacific Northwest) to the Great Northern Railway. On February 1, 1890, he transferred ownership of the StPM&M, Montana Central Railway, and other rail systems he owned to the Great Northern.”

(2) Hill benefited from government negotiations with Native Americans to obtain the right to build his railway on their land:




OOPS

Lloyd J. Mercer summarises how Hill’s Great Northern System relied on the acquisition of previous state-subsidised railways with land grants:

The unsold portion of that old grant passed to the new company and became the major part of the land grant of the Great Northern System.


This grant formed the remainder of the land grant of the Great Northern System, which became the beneficiary of efforts to subsidize predecessor railroads that were, unlike the Great Northern, truly pioneer effects.”


Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Post Keynesian Perspective: Government Intervention, James J. Hill and the Great Northern Railway

 

[Contumacious]

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

Man. Which school did you get that history minor from? You should ask for a refund.

So you think nasa, nws and the fda doesn't do anything to improve our lives. You people hate government as you want to be cowboys without anyone telling you what to do. You're like that school bully that wants to do what he wants without the adults telling him what to do!

Jezzz. Reality doesn't follow.

We want no one no one telling us what to do. NO ONE.

That , of course, does not prevent YOU from finding a bureaucrat who is willing to stick his fingers in your nostrils and guide your every move.

.

 

[bripat9643]

Shocking, you don't know the difference on MARGINAL tax rates and capital gains rates


"Beginning in 1942, taxpayers could exclude 50 percent of capital gains on assets held at least six months or elect a 25 percent alternative tax rate if their ordinary tax rate exceeded 50 percent. From 1954 to 1967 the maximum capital gains tax rate was 25 percent"
Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

The moron I responded to said 90% was the top rate on capital gains, not income taxes. I just posted the proof that he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. And you, the supposed expert on history, chimed in to defend his idiocy.

YOU need to go to ANOTHER board Bubba, you keep getting proved wrong

"My fave is the meme about the '90% tax rate' of the 1950's and early 1960's, as if that were really what was being paid. In fact, that was the top rate on capital gains, and only on 50% of capital gains, and of course an amazing array of deductions on even that taxable 50%, i.e. if you had $100 in gains you were taxed at 90% on $50 max, and only if you had absolutely no deductions of any kind, which never happened in an era when if you wanted to install solid gold faucets in the CEO's private bathroom, or just have the company buy his house for him, it was 100% deductible, for example, but it makes for great nonsense propaganda to scare the clueless with."

Apparently you are illiterate. What part of "that was the top rate on capital gains" didn't you understand?

 

[Picaro]

Can anyone identify the small government utopia we should base ourselves on?

Apparently Red China, I guess. It's very business friendly.

Are you seriously bringing up China as a small government example?

Are you seriously disputing it isn't 'Free Market Nirvana'? No worker safety regs, no environmental restrictions, no pesky 'labor problems', no restrictions on a company's ability to rob the paychecks of workers for things like taking a leak, 'company store' policies that are straight from the 19th century, barbed wire around factories turned inward to keep workers from escaping those 'voluntary contracts' so beloved by 'libertarianism', workers marched to 15 minute lunches and dinners concentration camp style, etc.? Of course it's 'small government' as defined by 'libertarians' and 'free market capitalists', a very small government indeed for those who aren't from cadre families. It's very much an absolute Paradise of 'small government' from Wall Street and 'private enterprise' perspectives. It's even better than slavery, since when they die or starve to death they can simply be replaced by a virtually unlimited supply of replacements.

 

[Contumacious]

AND? Yes, like I SAID, Gov't created the rail system in the US...

AND all those created by the government failed, miuserably.

The ONLY one which survived did not ask , nor accept, federal funds. James J. Hill's Great Northern Railroad "

.

I WAS HOPING SOME DUMBASS WOULD COME UP WITH THAT (MINOR IN HISTORY REMEMBER?)


Government Intervention, James J. Hill and the Great Northern Railway

James J. Hill is often invoked as a hero by apologists for extreme laissez faire, because his railway was allegedly built completely privately, without any government subsidies or land grants. Unfortunately, there some inconvenient facts the free market ideologues leave out when they discuss Hill and the Great Northern Railway:

(1) Hill acquired a pre-existing railway called the Saint Paul and Pacific Railroad (which was originally charted as the “Minnesota and Pacific Railroad” in 1857) as the starting basis for his Great Northern Railway. The Saint Paul and Pacific Railroad existed because of massive government support:

Mr Dingle Berry Sir

1- The Saint Paul and Pacific Railroad (also known as the St. Paul & Pacific Railroad and the SP&P) was a shortline railroad in the state of Minnesota in the United States which existed from 1857 to 1879. Founded as the Minnesota and Pacific Railroad, it was the state's first active railroad.[1][2

James J. Hill, who ran steamboats on the Red River, knew that the SP&P owned very valuable land grants and saw the potential of the railroad.[14] Hill convinced John S. Kennedy (a New York City banker who had represented the Dutch bondholders), Norman Kittson (Hill's friend and a wealthy fur trader), Donald Smith (a Montreal banker and executive with the Hudson's Bay Company), and George Stephen (Smith's cousin and a wealthy railroad executive) to invest $5.5 million in purchasing the railroad.[1

Show me where the federal government gave Hill's investment group one single penny to buy the bankrupt RR.

.

 

[bripat9643]

YOU and a SMALL minority of nutters disagree? OK AND? lol

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

Why should I leave the country? You can get the fuck out.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

Man. Which school did you get that history minor from? You should ask for a refund.

So you think nasa, nws and the fda doesn't do anything to improve our lives. You people hate government as you want to be cowboys without anyone telling you what to do. You're like that school bully that wants to do what he wants without the adults telling him what to do!

Jezzz. Reality doesn't follow.

Yeah. You seem to be having trouble understanding.

I wouldn't say that NASA, and many other government programs, don't "improve our lives". I just don't think the job of government is to "improve our lives". We can do that fine without government. And if we're to maintain the freedom to decide for ourselves what improving our lives really means, it's crucial that we keep government out of it.

Government is for those issues where uniform consensus is required, where everyone has to agree to one mode of conduct and abide by it. Most of the crap we use government for today doesn't really require consensus and it's wrong to use coercion to achieve it.

Also, comparing libertarians to bullies gave me a chuckle.

 

[Picaro]

The moron I responded to said 90% was the top rate on capital gains, not income taxes. I just posted the proof that he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. And you, the supposed expert on history, chimed in to defend his idiocy.

YOU need to go to ANOTHER board Bubba, you keep getting proved wrong

"My fave is the meme about the '90% tax rate' of the 1950's and early 1960's, as if that were really what was being paid. In fact, that was the top rate on capital gains, and only on 50% of capital gains, and of course an amazing array of deductions on even that taxable 50%, i.e. if you had $100 in gains you were taxed at 90% on $50 max, and only if you had absolutely no deductions of any kind, which never happened in an era when if you wanted to install solid gold faucets in the CEO's private bathroom, or just have the company buy his house for him, it was 100% deductible, for example, but it makes for great nonsense propaganda to scare the clueless with."

Apparently you are illiterate. What part of "that was the top rate on capital gains" didn't you understand?

You truly are stupid. It's your fellow far right idiots who keep claiming there was a '90% tax rate' for years in their silly propaganda, not me nor anybody in this thread you moron. Quit drinking and reading the dumbassery at Free Republic for a week or so, idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

Apparently Red China, I guess. It's very business friendly.

Are you seriously bringing up China as a small government example?

Are you seriously disputing it isn't 'Free Market Nirvana'? No worker safety regs, no environmental restrictions, no pesky 'labor problems', no restrictions on a company's ability to rob the paychecks of workers for things like taking a leak, 'company store' policies that are straight from the 19th century, barbed wire around factories turned inward to keep workers from escaping those 'voluntary contracts' so beloved by 'libertarianism', workers marched to 15 minute lunches and dinners concentration camp style, etc.? Of course it's 'small government' as defined by 'libertarians' and 'free market capitalists', a very small government indeed for those who aren't from cadre families. It's very much an absolute Paradise of 'small government' from Wall Street and 'private enterprise' perspectives. It's even better than slavery, since when they die or starve to death they can simply be replaced by a virtually unlimited supply of replacements.

Sorry, but I don't have any evidence that all the things you say about China are true. Their environmental regulations are obviously lax, but the rest of the stuff you listed could be leftwing horseshit. The claim about the barbed wire is hysterical. You mean they don't allow any employees off the premises? If you believe that, you're the forum's biggest fool, and that's saying something.

 

[dblack]

YOU and a SMALL minority of nutters disagree? OK AND? lol

Yeah.. you keep falling back on the mob rule thing. Kinda sad.

Yeah, Kinda how OUR Gov't works. You can try other nations you know?

I have to double check here... is mob rule really how you think our government is supposed to work?

 

[Dad2three]

The moron I responded to said 90% was the top rate on capital gains, not income taxes. I just posted the proof that he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. And you, the supposed expert on history, chimed in to defend his idiocy.

YOU need to go to ANOTHER board Bubba, you keep getting proved wrong

"My fave is the meme about the '90% tax rate' of the 1950's and early 1960's, as if that were really what was being paid. In fact, that was the top rate on capital gains, and only on 50% of capital gains, and of course an amazing array of deductions on even that taxable 50%, i.e. if you had $100 in gains you were taxed at 90% on $50 max, and only if you had absolutely no deductions of any kind, which never happened in an era when if you wanted to install solid gold faucets in the CEO's private bathroom, or just have the company buy his house for him, it was 100% deductible, for example, but it makes for great nonsense propaganda to scare the clueless with."

Apparently you are illiterate. What part of "that was the top rate on capital gains" didn't you understand?

I'm not wrong often, but admit it when I am. Sorry. You are correct, misread it.

 

[bripat9643]

YOU need to go to ANOTHER board Bubba, you keep getting proved wrong

"My fave is the meme about the '90% tax rate' of the 1950's and early 1960's, as if that were really what was being paid. In fact, that was the top rate on capital gains, and only on 50% of capital gains, and of course an amazing array of deductions on even that taxable 50%, i.e. if you had $100 in gains you were taxed at 90% on $50 max, and only if you had absolutely no deductions of any kind, which never happened in an era when if you wanted to install solid gold faucets in the CEO's private bathroom, or just have the company buy his house for him, it was 100% deductible, for example, but it makes for great nonsense propaganda to scare the clueless with."

Apparently you are illiterate. What part of "that was the top rate on capital gains" didn't you understand?

You truly are stupid. It's your fellow far right idiots who keep claiming there was a '90% tax rate' for years in their silly propaganda, not me nor anybody in this thread you moron. Quit drinking and reading the dumbassery at Free Republic for a week or so, idiot.

I just proved there was a 90% marginal rate on income taxes, moron.

You should give up while you're behind. Every time you post, you're just proving to the entire forum that you're an imbecile.