What is fair, what is right, what is just

[pvsi]

Some may say that I, being born in another country, have no business to dictate what is right for America, but since America has been dictating and policing the rest of the world, and has military bases all over the world, I am convinced that I have perfect right to dictate what is right for America. And as a person who speaks more than one language, I have the authority to tell all Hispanics and other nationals, to either learn English, or get out - There shall be only one official language in America, and that is the English language.
We can never agree on everything, but we can all agree, that our politicians, who make promises to get elected, can almost never keep those promises. On behalf of the New World Government, I am about to make some big promises, and before you ask me how will I get money to keep these promises, ask them - how they got trillions of dollars that they spent on wars for international bankers.

1. First of all, Abolish federal reserve, whose name is a fraud to begin with, because it is a privately owned institution, and has nothing to do with federation; And also because American founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and James Madison warned us about this scheme of international bankers before it was even created.
2. Government must have authority to print money without the added interest to serve the welfare class of international criminals - these are not my words, these are words of America's founding fathers.
3. Paid politicians can not be career politicians, they must not serve more than one term, since as the time goes by, they get surrounded by those who expect favors from them.
4. Politicians can not live in gated communities - just like soldiers are sacrificing their lives in a war zone, politicians have to be ready to die if they make people angry enough
5. Every living soul on this earth over the age of 50 deserves a modest retirement
6. Property taxes must never rise - this hurts retired people the most, and it is an inhumane.
7. Children who are gifted at studies, must automatically qualify for higher education, without the need to go through the hassles of obtaining a student loan.
8. All convicted criminals must sustain themselves either by their own labor, be funded by their families, find a charity, or be put out of their misery.
9. Fight gangs and drug dealers by putting them out of business - free cheap drugs for addicts will stop them from robbing others to get drug money
- Rehabilitation island for addicts willing to quit their addictions
- Lawless Island for addicts who are beyond help and other nuisance to humanity.

 

[deltex1]

It's Monday morning dude....I'll get back to you on Thursday.

 

[emilynghiem]

Some may say that I, being born in another country, have no business to dictate what is right for America, but since America has been dictating and policing the rest of the world, and has military bases all over the world, I am convinced that I have perfect right to dictate what is right for America. And as a person who speaks more than one language, I have the authority to tell all Hispanics and other nationals, to either learn English, or get out - There shall be only one official language in America, and that is the English language.
We can never agree on everything, but we can all agree, that our politicians, who make promises to get elected, can almost never keep those promises. On behalf of the New World Government, I am about to make some big promises, and before you ask me how will I get money to keep these promises, ask them - how they got trillions of dollars that they spent on wars for international bankers.

1. First of all, Abolish federal reserve, whose name is a fraud to begin with, because it is a privately owned institution, and has nothing to do with federation; And also because American founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and James Madison warned us about this scheme of international bankers before it was even created.
2. Government must have authority to print money without the added interest to serve the welfare class of international criminals - these are not my words, these are words of America's founding fathers.
3. Paid politicians can not be career politicians, they must not serve more than one term, since as the time goes by, they get surrounded by those who expect favors from them.
4. Politicians can not live in gated communities - just like soldiers are sacrificing their lives in a war zone, politicians have to be ready to die if they make people angry enough
5. Every living soul on this earth over the age of 50 deserves a modest retirement
6. Property taxes must never rise - this hurts retired people the most, and it is an inhumane.
7. Children who are gifted at studies, must automatically qualify for higher education, without the need to go through the hassles of obtaining a student loan.
8. All convicted criminals must sustain themselves either by their own labor, be funded by their families, find a charity, or be put out of their misery.
9. Fight gangs and drug dealers by putting them out of business - free cheap drugs for addicts will stop them from robbing others to get drug money
- Rehabilitation island for addicts willing to quit their addictions
- Lawless Island for addicts who are beyond help and other nuisance to humanity.

I agree with the points about individual responsibility.
the same way parties are pushing for a track to citizenship,
there should be an accessible track and program for communities to become independent cities, and counties to become independent states.
http://www.earnedamnesty.org
http://www.ithacahours.org

by basing citizenship on lawful conduct and agreement to financial responsibility and laws,
we can reward productive law abiding behavior and require restitution for wrongdoing that costs taxpayers instead of killing the country with either social or corporate welfare never paid back. education and training should be paid for with loans, grants or scholarships or in exchange for providing services to the public through work study or internships/credits.

by also rewarding whole communities for becoming self sufficient and self governing, all the other issues will take care of themselves.

no need to legislate from the top down. when people learn enough to become independent, they naturally figure out there must be equal responsibility. so either teach and train people through accessible tracks, or let groups become independent to avoid being taxed by those who refuse to share responsibility. eventually everyone will learn by rewarding those who do with citizenship and/or with the right to form independent self-governing districts.

 

[hangover]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, then see which hand fills up. Those wishes are about as possible as liberals wishing for the rich and corporations to pay off the national debt. Try some real proposals.

 

[pvsi]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, then see which hand fills up. Those wishes are about as possible as liberals wishing for the rich and corporations to pay off the national debt. Try some real proposals.

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

 

[Katzndogz]

I would go for making the word "fair" an archaic and seldom used word.

 

[Moonglow]

In this nation fair has never been about the American experience. We as a nation in our history is notorious for taking advantage of the weak and powerless.

 

[hangover]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, then see which hand fills up. Those wishes are about as possible as liberals wishing for the rich and corporations to pay off the national debt. Try some real proposals.

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

 

[pvsi]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, then see which hand fills up. Those wishes are about as possible as liberals wishing for the rich and corporations to pay off the national debt. Try some real proposals.

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

 

[healthmyths]

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Dot.com bust, 9/11, worst hurricane seasons, 28 million freed, 2.7 million children NOT starved, more people working then today, GDP grew 16%, tax revenue greatest in history..
and ALL done with the MSM ..Well, our job is to bash the president, that's what we do... and same NewsWeek editor made that statement ...calls Obama a god!

So again.. what did Bush do wrong when:
So if in spite of nearly 3 million jobs lost due to Recession/dot.com/9/11 and worst hurricanes IF those events hadn't occurred that would have been a total of
nearly 10 million more people working at the end of 2008 then at the beginning!

 

[pvsi]

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Dot.com bust, 9/11, worst hurricane seasons, 28 million freed, 2.7 million children NOT starved, more people working then today, GDP grew 16%, tax revenue greatest in history..
and ALL done with the MSM ..
1. Well, our job is to bash the president, that's what we do
2. nearly 10 million more people working at the end of 2008 then at the beginning!

1. Might as well bash your laptop, because it has more power than the president:
2. What kind of jobs? surveillance? airport security masseuses? NSA? homeland security? what else?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qNR5X1ntGo]FARRAKHAN Speech on OBAMA the PUPPET for CORPORATE AMERICA. Elite New World Order Agenda - YouTube[/ame]

 

[emilynghiem]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, then see which hand fills up. Those wishes are about as possible as liberals wishing for the rich and corporations to pay off the national debt. Try some real proposals.

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

I hear what you are saying. I AGREE that if you build your own solutions with your own efforts and resources, that DOES have more authority and influence than just a talking head blabbing empty promises for political points.

I would love to work with you on sustainable, ethical solutions using the free enterprise system and Constitutional framework of limited federal govt, shifting authority and control over programs and policies to the people through the States.

Would you like to continue using this thread to discuss workable solutions?

The key to not crossing the line and waxing "too liberal" with govt regulations, is to collaborate with more conservative Constitutionalists, especially Libertarians and Republicans, to check against their norms. If we stick to where we agree lands within Constitutional bounds, then that is more likely to pass through both parties and houses of Congress or local States. Otherwise, where parties disagree, this is where I suggest separating programs by party and giving tax credits or deductions rewarding citizens and leaders for funding and running their own solutions to cut the costs and burden of govt.

instead of punishing people with more regulations and political red tape, we should reward them for taking back responsibility and creating self-managed solutions that can be replicated.

Thanks pvsi
if you want, we can keep fleshing out pros, cons, problems and solutions with each of your points, and/or discuss short cuts (like relegating a whole problems to different parties to solve them separately to avoid division and conflict if they are not going to agree anyway)

As for holding corporations and citizens accountable, I would like to propose having both sign agreements accepting responsibility upon registration as a legal entity or voter.
so each state or city could write out their own terms, and vote on a policy for opting in.

instead of fighting over legalization, health care, and abortion issues, states could implement a third level of law for health and safety regulations, where citizens and corporations agree not to abuse freedom to impose health care costs or damages from ANY type of crime, abuse, violation or corruption onto other citizens/taxpayers, or else agree to be financially responsible for paying these costs if convicted of premeditated acts. For negligence, accidents or oversights, insurance could be an option to cover those costs, but not required if you can pay another way. if you cannot pay the cost of debts or damages, there should be programs set up as options, such as working off the debt through a correctional program per case (in the case of environmental damage, it would be cleaning up the damage; in case of trafficking it could be restoring the community where the abuses took place).

in addition to solving costs of crime vs. health care and disagreement who should pay for whose system, this system would also prevent a lot of unnecessary political fighting over civil or criminal laws regarding drug use or abortion by focusing on health and safety, and agreeing on standards for handling complaints and counseling for abusive relationships or addictions BEFORE crimes or costs occur.

if people do not agree on a policy for intervention on this level, then you already know to separate by groups and not mix these people under one public policy or it's conflicting. we can organize communities by public schools and if people don't agree what policies to fund they should have equal freedom to fund private schools and community ordinances that do meet their standards as taxpayers. either reconcile or separate funding and taxes so all people are represented and not forced to pay for programs that go against religious beliefs.

 

[emilynghiem]

1. I believe people have equal executive power by free exercise of religion or free will which we are born with. We are just not all educated or trained how to use it, such as by forming consensus with others to implement our own plans and contracts that are equally valid as anyone else's agreements. We don't all have equal authority to tell another church, group or the military what to do; but we each have authority within our own realm NO ONE ELSE HAS. We are each unique to our own role and purpose, equally as any Judge on a bench exercising free speech to express their interpretation of law, or as the President who can influence as many people as will listen and follow. you are right, we have freedom of the press, speech, and right to assemble and petition to redress grievances by the internet.

2. I also compared my answers in a voter guide and found myself most compatible with Nader. But since McCain was the stronger Constitutionalist, that's who I supported. I tend to vote Green because in TX the state normally goes to GOP so all the electoral votes go there anyway. So I use my votes to help promote indie candidates who need more % to grow.

Most of the liberal agenda through the Democrats can be better achieved by free chioce by investing locally in grassroots democratically run and managed programs without govt bureaucracy or political hijacking. so I support my fellow liberals, progressive, prochoice Green and Democrat and independents of all parties who put the Constitution first adn include everyone underneath that umbrella.

I just found out the Kingwood Tea Party does not discriminate or allow political bashing by party, but enforces a very clear inclusion principle for their group. So I might check them out. Otherwise I have been working and networking independently because of divisive biases that get in the way. I can tolerate people of diametrically opposing views, but they cannot tolerate each other so combining ideas from all of them puts pressure on people to change their perception and work with each other. I need to find more people who can.

you sound like one of those. you may not be used to working with conservatives, but neither are they used to working with liberals who build our own solutions. if you open up to them, they will open up to you when they see your ideas consolidate with theirs.

For the ones that clash, those conflicts can be resolved so they don't scare people off.
don't be scared either to work with conservatives. I have more success explaining to them using constitutional arguments than I do with fellow liberals who only use politics instead.

sorry if you have had bad experiences with that, but it's important to overcome these barriers and work on constitutional inclusion and points of agreement to build solutions.

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Dot.com bust, 9/11, worst hurricane seasons, 28 million freed, 2.7 million children NOT starved, more people working then today, GDP grew 16%, tax revenue greatest in history..
and ALL done with the MSM ..
1. Well, our job is to bash the president, that's what we do
2. nearly 10 million more people working at the end of 2008 then at the beginning!

1. Might as well bash your laptop, because it has more power than the president:
2. What kind of jobs? surveillance? airport security masseuses? NSA? homeland security? what else?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qNR5X1ntGo]FARRAKHAN Speech on OBAMA the PUPPET for CORPORATE AMERICA. Elite New World Order Agenda - YouTube[/ame]

 

[FJO]

What would right, fair and just, if those who know their rights so well, would be just as knowledgeable and conscientious about their responsibilities, obligations and duties, and act accordingly.

 

[hangover]

The difference is that liberals on TV are a part of that corporation they moan against, while I am a part of society, part of work force, a small business owner, an independent who works with his own hands for a living.

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Calling a Vietnam war hero a scumbag proves you're a con. Only a chicken hawk would say something like that. It's cons like you that give me a hangover. I voted for Nader four times.

 

[pvsi]

you may not be used to working with conservatives, but neither are they used to working with liberals who build our own solutions. if you open up to them, they will open up to you when they see your ideas consolidate with theirs.

On the contrary, I never discriminate people by political party affiliation, religion, race, etc. The only people I could not work with are the people we have been seeing on television, and that yes includes John McCain who you said you support, but I DEFINITELY can work with you and any liberal or conservative who has not been a part of the establishment - the people in the establishment, honestly, I could not even look into their eyes because there isn't enough respect for them. And you are absolutely right - we need to form a coalition, which includes libertarians, greens, conservatives and socialists.

 

[pvsi]

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Calling a Vietnam war hero a scumbag proves you're a con. Only a chicken hawk would say something like that. It's cons like you that give me a hangover. I voted for Nader four times.

I don't give a shit what it proves to you, last time I voted for this cockroach John Kerry, and yes I AM ANGRY, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE ANGRY, because that is not elections, I WENT IN THERE WITH INTENTION TO VOTE FOR ANOTHER GUY, and while I was hesitating in the booth thinking what to do, looking for a pen, almost wanting to write his name on the wall, I KNOW THAT IF I DID WRITE HIS NAME THERE I COULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND WENT TO PRISON FOR VANDALISM, SO FUCK YOUR ELECTIONS AND FUCK YOUR WAR HEROES.
This has been my freedom of speech and I stand by it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Oh I see, liberals are corporate America, while the cons are the only ones that are small business owners. Wow! Who would believe that?

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Calling a Vietnam war hero a scumbag proves you're a con. Only a chicken hawk would say something like that. It's cons like you that give me a hangover. I voted for Nader four times.

WHAT? Kerry, both Clinton's and Obama
have offended as many liberals on the left as conservatives on the right.

you can be conservative or moderate and still lean liberal/progressive.

very few leaders are pure constitutionalist, so they are going to sell out left and right!

 

[emilynghiem]

Why would you get arrested for vandalism for a write in vote?
Where were you voting?

As for Kerry, I witnessed a roomful of disgusted progressive liberals wanting to push resolutions, and couldn't get into the Democrat convention unless you were a Kerry delegate. so cutting out other voices and input from these political games for elections
happens within the parties, in order to streamline the votes, the agenda and media focus.

Everyone gets painted with the same brush, same with GOP whose dissenters get labeled all kind of names, as do liberal left who are silenced protesting against Democrat sellouts.

of course people on both sides are angry to get sold down the river by partisan politics
the problem is we blame each other instead of banding together.

Hey PVSI here is a song I wrote during the Kerry campaign and what it felt like:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org/callthis.html

i have a whole collection of other song spoofs like this one
to express the anger and work towards solutions that address the real issues.

I hope this makes you feel better you are not alone.
And with your openness to work with folks from all views,
you should set up a local tea party like the one in kingwood that takes that approach
to including all members from all views, and prohibiting any divisive hate protests etc.
everything is based on sticking with Constitutional principles and limits where ppl agree.
anything we dont agree on should remain private and not imposed by govt anyway; that is abuse of power and we need to stand up and quit the bullying by coercion or exclusion.

thanks for making this effort.
sometimes people with an immigrant background
see things differently that others take too much for granted

good for you for pushing for reform from a more universal inclusive perspective
we need more leaders and ideas to come forth like this! Thanks!

Listen you hangover alcoholic, last time I voted was for a liberal scumbag John Kerry, only because there was no write in option and no other way to vote for my candidate which was Ralph Nader (also not a conservative) don't fucking insult me by bring up conservatives, I do not want to be associated with them after 1 year of Bush it, much less 8.

Calling a Vietnam war hero a scumbag proves you're a con. Only a chicken hawk would say something like that. It's cons like you that give me a hangover. I voted for Nader four times.

I don't give a shit what it proves to you, last time I voted for this cockroach John Kerry, and yes I AM ANGRY, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE ANGRY, because that is not elections, I WENT IN THERE WITH INTENTION TO VOTE FOR ANOTHER GUY, and while I was hesitating in the booth thinking what to do, looking for a pen, almost wanting to write his name on the wall, I KNOW THAT IF I DID WRITE HIS NAME THERE I COULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND WENT TO PRISON FOR VANDALISM, SO FUCK YOUR ELECTIONS AND FUCK YOUR WAR HEROES.
This has been my freedom of speech and I stand by it.

 

[pvsi]

Why would you get arrested for vandalism for a write in vote?
Where were you voting?

This was in North Philadelphia in 2004. I went to vote with intention to vote for Ralph Nader, but saw there is no write in option anywhere. I asked the staff, the staff member responded "just select all democrats in the list" I looked around for another minute, thinking it was a mistake, I remember I was wishing I had a marker with me so that I could just write the name on the box somewhere, but did not have it with me, and I know full well that if I did have a marker, it would have been considered VANDALISM because the only place I could write it was on the ballot box itself which was full of pre written names or on the walls - that is vandalism and it is not something they would read as a vote for Nader anyway.