What is the average IQ of a Bernie supporter?

[JoeNormal]

In previous discussions with you, you seemed to lean pretty hard in that direction. No?

I'm fiscally conservative, but I'm for a far smaller, defensive focused military and the elimination of all morality laws. I'm a classic liberal.

It's ironic that you call me black and white then prove that you are wanting to boil everyone down to Democrat or Republican, left or right

Ok, point taken. It's hard for me to keep track of everyone on this forum so the posters who tend to defend the greed and incompetence of Wall Street and corporate upper management get placed in my right wing column. Sorry if you find that offensive.

I don't defend those so you're still lost and confused, little boy.

I'm for free markets where if your boss or your financial services company don't perform you can fire them

Ever seen the resumes of some of these jackasses? The most incompetent fool can be made to appear as if they perform.

That's true in every job in every industry. What does it have to do with anything? I spent years on Wall Street and my career is in management and corporate management. It's like everything else, there are good and bad ones.

Free markets sort all that out, they let the bad ones fail

Free markets don't sort that all out. That's my point. When they drag one company under, they tend to move on to the next.

 

[Lewdog]

The problem most conservatives have is not with mathematics but in algebraic projection.

It is as if they have never plotted a graph and extended it to a point in time on the X axis.

Figure this out;

A) jobs are being destroyed by the robotics revolution.

B) We live in a democratic Republic

C) as enough jobs are destroyed so that more and more Americans feel like they cannot survive in a purely capitalist system any more, what will they do?

Starve or vote for more and more socialism?

We need to manage this trend by getting ahead of it and putting in place workable solutions ahead of time instead of laughing it all off as 'lazy people wanting free shit'.

If you think that is the case, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

Long term your point about robotics is valid.

Short term, Germany has twice the rate of manufacturing jobs we have.

They are not technologically backwards Third Worlds who are competing by working on slave wages



and somehow they do it.

How?

IMO, better Trade Policy.

Yes! The Germans are handling the problem much better than we are.

Would you say that we could learn a few things from them? Or how about Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland? Can we learn from them? Oh what would those lessons be?

To not wait for the rain to mend your roof?

Not to be the world's bitch when it comes to trade?

What good is trade if everyone is unemployed by robotics and have no money to spend?

The system we have in place now is only going to get worse until you reach the point of not a political revolution, but a military one, and it isn't going to be pretty.

 

[kaz]

I'm fiscally conservative, but I'm for a far smaller, defensive focused military and the elimination of all morality laws. I'm a classic liberal.

It's ironic that you call me black and white then prove that you are wanting to boil everyone down to Democrat or Republican, left or right

Ok, point taken. It's hard for me to keep track of everyone on this forum so the posters who tend to defend the greed and incompetence of Wall Street and corporate upper management get placed in my right wing column. Sorry if you find that offensive.

I don't defend those so you're still lost and confused, little boy.

I'm for free markets where if your boss or your financial services company don't perform you can fire them

Ever seen the resumes of some of these jackasses? The most incompetent fool can be made to appear as if they perform.

That's true in every job in every industry. What does it have to do with anything? I spent years on Wall Street and my career is in management and corporate management. It's like everything else, there are good and bad ones.

Free markets sort all that out, they let the bad ones fail

Free markets don't sort that all out. That's my point. When they drag one company under, they tend to move on to the next.

I don't even know what that means, but neither do you. You don't trust people to make our own choices, but you trust government to make them for us. Now that's just stupid

 

[hazlnut]

Math seems hard for Bernie supporters. Hard to believe I know.

Math Is Hard for Sanders Supporters | The American Spectator

Seventy years ago, George Orwell explained why so many bad ideas are unquestioningly accepted and advocated by the left: “At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it.” This is precisely why the Urban Institute (UI) is under attack from Bernie Sanders supporters and other progressives. The left-of-center think tank recently released a study that says the unsayable — Medicare for All is an unaffordable fantasy.
Medicare for All is the single-payer health care system that most progressives support as a replacement for Obamacare. Sanders, the Vermont senator who is ostensibly running against Hillary Clinton for the Democrat presidential nomination, has made it the centerpiece of his campaign. His website assures us that “Bernie’s plan” will save the country $6 trillion over the next ten years, but UI committed the sin of checking the math, and the study’s authors are not feeling the Bern: “[N]ational health expenditures would increase … by 6.6 trillion (16.6 percent) between 2017 and 2026.”
And this is just a drop in the bucket compared to how much it will increase thegovernment’s health spending:

Nothing is a fantasy. There is enough wealth in this country to fix everything. There is enough wealth in the U.S.A. to fix every school, pay every college tuition (for those who can not afford it) and even provide them with a job and health care if we wanted to.

There is that much wealth controlled/owed by Americans (the top 1%) -- a huge of chunk of the wealth is off shore, but, with the right incentive (jail) that's easily transferred back into American banks and businesses.

Here's the rub - Those with the bulk of the wealth just have to be willing to part with it. Pay higher taxes.

Which they are not. And with their wealth they have 10x more influence over policy and decisions.

Bernies math is indeed shit. But don't pretend we don't have the money. Don't pretend the top 1% of Americans don't control trillions in wealth.

We put too much emphasis on "growth" and "expansion" -- raising taxes on the wealthy back to Clinton or Reagan era levels would indeed harm the market economy and fund managers would have to go out and get real jobs. Scale back CEO pay to normal pre-1990's tax laws levels. But do not raise taxes on the middle class -- they sustain our consumer driven economy, and we want them spending.

Basically, appeal to the top 1%'s sense of patriotism and freedom. You're an American, do it for your country, or go to jail for tax evasion.

 

[JoeNormal]

Ok, point taken. It's hard for me to keep track of everyone on this forum so the posters who tend to defend the greed and incompetence of Wall Street and corporate upper management get placed in my right wing column. Sorry if you find that offensive.

I don't defend those so you're still lost and confused, little boy.

I'm for free markets where if your boss or your financial services company don't perform you can fire them

Ever seen the resumes of some of these jackasses? The most incompetent fool can be made to appear as if they perform.

That's true in every job in every industry. What does it have to do with anything? I spent years on Wall Street and my career is in management and corporate management. It's like everything else, there are good and bad ones.

Free markets sort all that out, they let the bad ones fail

Free markets don't sort that all out. That's my point. When they drag one company under, they tend to move on to the next.

I don't even know what that means, but neither do you. You don't trust people to make our own choices, but you trust government to make them for us. Now that's just stupid

Government has traditionally played the role of the mediator. Now we have a bunch of small government right wingers who've decided it would be just fine to put the foxes in charge of the hen house. And guess what, the foxes are looting the place and the hens are getting slaughtered. Who could've seen that coming.

 

[dannyboys]

Math seems hard for Bernie supporters. Hard to believe I know.

Math Is Hard for Sanders Supporters | The American Spectator

Seventy years ago, George Orwell explained why so many bad ideas are unquestioningly accepted and advocated by the left: “At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it.” This is precisely why the Urban Institute (UI) is under attack from Bernie Sanders supporters and other progressives. The left-of-center think tank recently released a study that says the unsayable — Medicare for All is an unaffordable fantasy.
Medicare for All is the single-payer health care system that most progressives support as a replacement for Obamacare. Sanders, the Vermont senator who is ostensibly running against Hillary Clinton for the Democrat presidential nomination, has made it the centerpiece of his campaign. His website assures us that “Bernie’s plan” will save the country $6 trillion over the next ten years, but UI committed the sin of checking the math, and the study’s authors are not feeling the Bern: “[N]ational health expenditures would increase … by 6.6 trillion (16.6 percent) between 2017 and 2026.”
And this is just a drop in the bucket compared to how much it will increase thegovernment’s health spending:

Nothing is a fantasy. There is enough wealth in this country to fix everything. There is enough wealth in the U.S.A. to fix every school, pay every college tuition (for those who can not afford it) and even provide them with a job and health care if we wanted to.

There is that much wealth controlled/owed by Americans (the top 1%) -- a huge of chunk of the wealth is off shore, but, with the right incentive (jail) that's easily transferred back into American banks and businesses.

Here's the rub - Those with the bulk of the wealth just have to be willing to part with it. Pay higher taxes.

Which they are not. And with their wealth they have 10x more influence over policy and decisions.

Bernies math is indeed shit. But don't pretend we don't have the money. Don't pretend the top 1% of Americans don't control trillions in wealth.

We put too much emphasis on "growth" and "expansion" -- raising taxes on the wealthy back to Clinton or Reagan era levels would indeed harm the market economy and fund managers would have to go out and get real jobs. Scale back CEO pay to normal pre-1990's tax laws levels. But do not raise taxes on the middle class -- they sustain our consumer driven economy, and we want them spending.

Basically, appeal to the top 1%'s sense of patriotism and freedom. You're an American, do it for your country, or go to jail for tax evasion.

You're an idiot!
I bet you've never even held a hundred dollar bill.
If you think the wealthy are going to give you their money you didn't earn you are fucking delusional.
We actually make fun and ridicule your 'type' behind closed doors.
We know as long as there are fucking morons like you out there our wealth is secure.

 

[Lewdog]

I'd say that the false equivalency here is wisdom with common sense. Those are two very different things. In fact, wisdom and IQ are positively correlated.

OK, then where is the common sense or wisdom in telling jobless people to 'go eat cake' in a democratic republic?

The majority of Americans want either Sanders, Clinton, or Trump in the White House. Half the Clinton supporters say a Federal indictment would not change their opinion of her. Enough said.

It's the Age of Stupidity and we now live in the time Prophocized when evil is called good and good called evil.

Out of the three, no one can dig up dirt on Bernie Sanders other than to say he has a net worth of less than a million dollars. In fact, Sanders has a net worth of less than what Hillary Clinton gets paid for ONE speech. So, who are the stupid ones? The ones voting for a rich, lying, Wall Street backed narcissist in Hillary, or a rich, lying, narcissist in Trump? Both of whom are dealing with legal troubles while on the campaign trail. The worst anyone can dredge up on Bernie is that he wants to spread the equality of wealth to the lower and middle class from the 1% ers that have taken advantage of the system for hundreds of years.

So who is the ignorant ones here?

 

[Lewdog]

History is filled with people of very high IQ's who can't safely walk across the street alone

or are mass murderering tyrants.

You're switched tracks from intelligence to morality. Absolutely zero justification for doing so.

Just off the top of my head, Bobby Fisher can't safely walk across the street alone.
Hitler, Pol Pot - all high IQ.
If you want a link, start using that high IQ of yours to start learning things even I know.

Links to back up your claims please.

 

[JimBowie1958]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Out of the three, no one can dig up dirt on Bernie Sanders other than to say he has a net worth of less than a million dollars. In fact, Sanders has a net worth of less than what Hillary Clinton gets paid for ONE speech. So, who are the stupid ones? The ones voting for a rich, lying, Wall Street backed narcissist in Hillary, or a rich, lying, narcissist in Trump? Both of whom are dealing with legal troubles while on the campaign trail. The worst anyone can dredge up on Bernie is that he wants to spread the equality of wealth to the lower and middle class from the 1% ers that have taken advantage of the system for hundreds of years.

So who is the ignorant ones here?

In a democracy, theft by government is called taxes and not looked upon as evil.

 

[Lewdog]

The problem most conservatives have is not with mathematics but in algebraic projection.

It is as if they have never plotted a graph and extended it to a point in time on the X axis.

Figure this out;

A) jobs are being destroyed by the robotics revolution.

B) We live in a democratic Republic

C) as enough jobs are destroyed so that more and more Americans feel like they cannot survive in a purely capitalist system any more, what will they do?

Starve or vote for more and more socialism?

We need to manage this trend by getting ahead of it and putting in place workable solutions ahead of time instead of laughing it all off as 'lazy people wanting free shit'.

If you think that is the case, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

The jobs that are being replaced by robots are manufacturing & low skill jobs.

The solution isn't to change the entire country dumbass. The solution is to change your career.

You can't change your career if you can't afford to get a higher education, and even with that, some people just aren't smart enough to get higher educations. So what do we do with the people who can't either afford to get a higher education or aren't smart enough to get one? Let them clog up the streets and starve to death? Ohhh...maybe we can start having them dig ditches, then shoot them and bury them there.

 

[kaz]

I don't defend those so you're still lost and confused, little boy.

I'm for free markets where if your boss or your financial services company don't perform you can fire them

Ever seen the resumes of some of these jackasses? The most incompetent fool can be made to appear as if they perform.

That's true in every job in every industry. What does it have to do with anything? I spent years on Wall Street and my career is in management and corporate management. It's like everything else, there are good and bad ones.

Free markets sort all that out, they let the bad ones fail

Free markets don't sort that all out. That's my point. When they drag one company under, they tend to move on to the next.

I don't even know what that means, but neither do you. You don't trust people to make our own choices, but you trust government to make them for us. Now that's just stupid

Government has traditionally played the role of the mediator. Now we have a bunch of small government right wingers who've decided it would be just fine to put the foxes in charge of the hen house. And guess what, the foxes are looting the place and the hens are getting slaughtered. Who could've seen that coming.

Maybe you could tone down the Marxist rhetoric and be a little more specific

 

[JimBowie1958]

These Are The Careers to be Impacted By the Coming Jobless Economy

The problem most conservatives have is not with mathematics but in algebraic projection.

It is as if they have never plotted a graph and extended it to a point in time on the X axis.

Figure this out;

A) jobs are being destroyed by the robotics revolution.

B) We live in a democratic Republic

C) as enough jobs are destroyed so that more and more Americans feel like they cannot survive in a purely capitalist system any more, what will they do?

Starve or vote for more and more socialism?

We need to manage this trend by getting ahead of it and putting in place workable solutions ahead of time instead of laughing it all off as 'lazy people wanting free shit'.

If you think that is the case, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

As a machinist and a NC programmer I have to wonder why you are so against more efficient methods of manufacturing and assembly. Some "parts" such as the titanium fins in an aircraft's jet fans are made far easier and more reliably on a 5 axis CNC mill than could ever be manufactured using manual mills and lathes.

Yes it is true that some jobs are eliminated by robotics but as the mill and lathe operators become educated on how to program and operate the NC machines new jobs are waiting for them.

The REAL job killer is not robotics, it is the outsourcing of critical manufacturing to countries that don't pay a living wage to the machine operators. Another thing that is horrible in outsourcing is quality control. Many of the failures in aircraft accidents have been traced to inferior products like the lithium batteries that self ignite from poor quality controls.

Many of our highly elected representatives leave office to become agents for foreign countries in pushing trade bills that are contrary to our best interests.

K Street in DC is NOT our friend.

These Are The Careers to be Impacted By the Coming Jobless Economy

 

[JoeNormal]

Ever seen the resumes of some of these jackasses? The most incompetent fool can be made to appear as if they perform.

That's true in every job in every industry. What does it have to do with anything? I spent years on Wall Street and my career is in management and corporate management. It's like everything else, there are good and bad ones.

Free markets sort all that out, they let the bad ones fail

Free markets don't sort that all out. That's my point. When they drag one company under, they tend to move on to the next.

I don't even know what that means, but neither do you. You don't trust people to make our own choices, but you trust government to make them for us. Now that's just stupid

Government has traditionally played the role of the mediator. Now we have a bunch of small government right wingers who've decided it would be just fine to put the foxes in charge of the hen house. And guess what, the foxes are looting the place and the hens are getting slaughtered. Who could've seen that coming.

Maybe you could tone down the Marxist rhetoric and be a little more specific

I'll give you some recent, personal history. Our company hired a consultant to give us a course on agile methodology. I'll even admit that he did a good job at that. But they hired him on in spite of the fact that he knew nothing about our industry, he knew nothing about DSP, he knew nothing about firmware and as near as I can figure, hadn't written a line of code in about 15 years. Good at self promotion as all of these guys are. Nevertheless, he convinced a small group of like-minded, shoot from the hip, go with your gut upper level managers that he knew how to make us stellar. I can appreciate that there are times when information is sketchy and you do have to go with your gut but there were a bunch of people with 15, 20, 25 years of experience who could have told them all where it would blow up and they never bothered to listen. Here we are, after losing a bunch of good people and with productivity in the tank trying to keep this ship afloat. It appears we might do that but now we're working twice as hard for the same results. The only consolation is that all of these guys are gone now - one was forced into retirement, one saw the writing on the wall and found someplace else to go, one was outright fired (he found another place too) and the last went to a different division where hopefully he won't have any further impact.

These are the types of guys who want to outsource my job for their own gain but darn it, they just can't.

 

[SwimExpert]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

 

[Lewdog]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

You don't care about the people that are poorly educated and would be unable to learn a new profession or go back to school? I mean they are just animals right? Maybe we should put them in rail cars and send them somewhere that all their gold fillings are taken out, their glasses are taken away, and we use them for experiments, used as slave labor, or just gas them and get rid of them... Yep, sounds like a good idea.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

You don't care about the people that are poorly educated and would be unable to learn a new profession or go back to school? I mean they are just animals right? Maybe we should put them in rail cars and send them somewhere that all their gold fillings are taken out, their glasses are taken away, and we use them for experiments, used as slave labor, or just gas them and get rid of them... Yep, sounds like a good idea.

Oh cry me a river you whiny fuck bag.

You care? Do tell. How much time and money of your own do you invest in helping these people?

The Democratic idea of caring meaning wasting taxpayer money on people too lazy to take care of their own future is stupid.

 

[Lewdog]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

You don't care about the people that are poorly educated and would be unable to learn a new profession or go back to school? I mean they are just animals right? Maybe we should put them in rail cars and send them somewhere that all their gold fillings are taken out, their glasses are taken away, and we use them for experiments, used as slave labor, or just gas them and get rid of them... Yep, sounds like a good idea.

Oh cry me a river you whiny fuck bag.

You care? Do tell. How much time and money of your own do you invest in helping these people?

The Democratic idea of caring meaning wasting taxpayer money on people too lazy to take care of their own future is stupid.

If I told you all the things I do, then that would defeat the purpose of doing it out of the kindness of my heart, and instead make it some kind of social designation.

 

[SwimExpert]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

You don't care about the people that are poorly educated and would be unable to learn a new profession or go back to school? I mean they are just animals right? Maybe we should put them in rail cars and send them somewhere that all their gold fillings are taken out, their glasses are taken away, and we use them for experiments, used as slave labor, or just gas them and get rid of them... Yep, sounds like a good idea.

Other than your absurd contention that some people are unable to learn, what the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Lewdog]

But all of that is still very expensive, and that is the biggest challenge we are going to face. It's inaccessible for many, and financially counter-productive for many others. The changes need to take place during the formative years. Instead of spending 12 years [poorly] preparing children for four years of college, often with wasted repetition in the process and without regard to the feasibility of sending an individual to a four year school, we need to redesign our approach starting at about 8th or 9th grade.

And what about all the poorly educated already out of the educational system that used to do the low skilled factory work?

Are they supposed to just eat cake?

Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care. I'm not looking for perfect solutions for everyone to enjoy utopia. I'm looking for reasonable, actionable solutions that provide good solutions for the country's future.

You don't care about the people that are poorly educated and would be unable to learn a new profession or go back to school? I mean they are just animals right? Maybe we should put them in rail cars and send them somewhere that all their gold fillings are taken out, their glasses are taken away, and we use them for experiments, used as slave labor, or just gas them and get rid of them... Yep, sounds like a good idea.

Other than your absurd contention that some people are unable to learn, what the fuck are you talking about?

I know you are kidding right? So if most if not all of the low skill labor jobs are eliminated by robotics, you think everyone is able to learn how to be a mechanical engineer? a nurse? a teacher? I know some people that are too dumb to use a mop bucket, that doesn't mean we should let them starve and die like you said. I thought you were intelligent?

SwimExpert - "Sure, whatever. Or they could die. I really don't care."

You said it, now own it.