What is the cause of kids commiting mass shootings in school ?

[Hiryuu]

I don't want to talk politics or guns on this subject because guns have been around for hundreds of yrs and politics even longer ......when I was in high school kids would drive to school with rifles and shot guns hanging on gun racks and you never heard about someone getting shot much less dozens being injured or killed ......so instead of arguing over the weapons used or not used in these mass killings I would like opinions on what motivates todays kids to commit acts of evil that was unheard of 30yrs ago ? what has changed ? what is different about the way kids think today ?

Trying to put myself in to kids heads, my gut tells me it starts with isolation, you can be connected to everyone and still have no real friends. The world should be fair but other kids seem to have it all and that is seen as being unfair. Put all of this together and it is requires a cry for help. Most kids learn to deal with it but a few can't and act out their cry for attention and help. As a society we worship fame, for whatever reason, and mass killings equate to fame. What better way to grab the attention you have never had than to do something extreme. Plenty of others have done it before.

You both have points, especially regarding 30 years ago and isolation (while being connected to everyone).

Thirty years ago, if you wanted to interact with your peers, you had to find compromise and common ground.
You may want to ride bikes, they may want to watch television or go fishing.
Children were required to find ways to manage social situations with the people around them.

Nowadays, you can go online and find a million people who agree with what you think, or what you want.
That will never assist you in finding more productive ways to deal with the person standing next to you.

That promotes divisiveness and isolation, when people become an island unto themselves, surrounded by people who simply have different desires.
That's only compounded when we fail to assign value to a distinction between the norm and those that excel, in that you have removed a favorable goal.
Victimization often complicates matters by establishing a false sense of morality associated with recognizing a problem versus actually addressing it.

 

[ChrisL]

Very complicated question which could have a number of different answers or many different combinations of factors. I know, very helpful, aren't I?

If they are crazy, there is just no understanding a crazy person's brain and how it operates though. It does not operate normally, we know that much.

 

[ChrisL]

Social media.

Children are conditioned to believe that a like on facebook from a "friend" is more important than the respect of an actual person in their daily lives.

They have yet to see that the online world is not the real world where people actually have to interact.

Because of this these kids are only concerned about a false online image of themselves and have become narcissists that instead of gazing in a mirror stare in rapt attention at their own avatar thinking it is the real them

So, THIS is how artificial intelligence will kill off the human race! Lol!

 

[Hiryuu]

Very complicated question which could have a number of different answers or many different combinations of factors. I know, very helpful, aren't I?

If they are crazy, there is just no understanding a crazy person's brain and how it operates though. It does not operate normally, we know that much.

Perhaps the real question is whether or not we are making them crazy?

 

[ChrisL]

The one thing that these mass murderers seem to have in common is that they were all on or at one time on psychiatric meds.

 

[ChrisL]

Very complicated question which could have a number of different answers or many different combinations of factors. I know, very helpful, aren't I?

If they are crazy, there is just no understanding a crazy person's brain and how it operates though. It does not operate normally, we know that much.

Perhaps the real question is whether or not we are making them crazy?

Would you be a little more specific?

 

[ChrisL]

Today most parents will say things like 'Let's not do this because of that, ok??' Most of the time the kid will say OK, then turn right around & do it again. Then the parents will count to 3, and the kid continues and the parent counts to 3 again......without ever following thru with a consequence.

My parents told me 'Don't do that or else' and many times I got the 'or else'. There was no bargaining or counting about it.

When I was 5, I was being bad, so I ran up to the top of a tree to escape a whipping.

I was all "Haha! You can't get me"

Next thing I know, the teacher is right below me, and I had 2 options:

I could either come down right now and spend time in timeout,

or she'd get me down and I get a whippin' and double the timeout.

I picked option A

Was corporal punishment still legal when you were in school?

 

[ChrisL]

I just can't help but to think there MUST be some negative consequences of pumping your kid full of prescription "mood altering" medications at a young age and continuing it for years during crucial stages of development.

 

[Hiryuu]

Would you be a little more specific?

Just wondering if the "crazy" we are trying to address is not the result of policies that have been put in place.
Some people have mentioned an increased sense of narcissism in the youth.

That could very well be attributed to the ideas surrounding self-esteem and participation trophies.
Giving the child the idea that their desires and concerns outweigh the need to pursue a more competitive and rewarding course.

It doesn't do a good job of teaching them to accept that we all fail at some point, nor how to deal with failure in a healthy manner.
In extreme cases, it goes more towards attempting to express those that don't fail are somehow responsible for the failures of those that do.

That's just one thing that has been mentioned.
There are others, and when combined it could be argued that we have created the problem.

 

[ChrisL]

Would you be a little more specific?

Just wondering if the "crazy" we are trying to address is not the result of policies that have been put in place.
Some people have mentioned an increased sense of narcissism in the youth.

That could very well be attributed to the ideas surrounding self-esteem and participation trophies.
Giving the child the idea that their desires and concerns outweigh the need to pursue a more competitive and rewarding course.

It doesn't do a good job of teaching them to accept that we all fail at some point, nor how to deal with failure in a healthy manner.
In extreme cases, it goes more towards attempting to express those that don't fail are somehow responsible for the failures of those that do.

That's just one thing that has been mentioned.
There are others, and when combined it could be argued that we have created the problem.

I agree. Kids need to have coping mechanisms and have to be able to deal with their failures in a healthy and productive way.

It just seems like if any of these things were the one and only answer then there would be a LOT more of these school shootings happening. It has to be a combination of factors and a "perfect storm" so to speak.

 

[ChrisL]

Not all of these school shooters were from broken homes either.

Eric Harris
Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. The Harris family relocated often, as Eric's father, Wayne Harris, was a U.S. Air Force transport pilot. His mother, Katherine Ann Poole, was a homemaker. The family moved from Plattsburgh, New York, to Littleton, Colorado, in July 1993, when Wayne Harris retired from military service.[5]

The Harris family lived in rented accommodations for the first three years that they lived in the Littleton area. During this time, Eric met Dylan Klebold. In 1996, the Harris family purchased a house south of Columbine High School. Eric's older brother, Kevin, attended college at the University of Colorado Boulder.[6][7]

Dylan Klebold
Klebold was born in Lakewood, Colorado, to Thomas and Susan Klebold.[5] His parents were pacifists and attended a Lutheranchurch with their children. Both Dylan and his older brother, Byron, attended confirmation classes in accordance with the Lutheran tradition.[8] As had been the case with his older brother, Dylan was named after a renowned poet – in Dylan's case, the playwrightDylan Thomas.[9]

At the family home, the Klebolds also observed some rituals in keeping with Klebold's maternal grandfather's Jewish heritage.[8][10]Klebold attended Normandy Elementary in Littleton, Colorado for the first two grades before transferring to Governor's Ranch Elementary and became part of the CHIPS ("Challenging High Intellectual Potential Students") program.[11] He found the transition to Ken Caryl Middle School difficult.[5]

 

[Hiryuu]

I agree. Kids need to have coping mechanisms and have to be able to deal with their failures in a healthy and productive way.

It just seems like if any of these things were the one and only answer then there would be a LOT more of these school shootings happening. It has to be a combination of factors and a "perfect storm" so to speak.

I like the way you refer to it as a "perfect storm".
A perfect storm still requires a set of conditions to achieve the "perfect".

I don't know how well we can separate all the conditions to figure out the ones that have the most influence.
Since we are dealing with individuals with different environmental conditions, it could be even harder to identify specifics and corrective actions.
Attempting to reverse engineer the solution, may be pie in the sky depending on how systemic the problems are.

 

[ChrisL]

I agree. Kids need to have coping mechanisms and have to be able to deal with their failures in a healthy and productive way.

It just seems like if any of these things were the one and only answer then there would be a LOT more of these school shootings happening. It has to be a combination of factors and a "perfect storm" so to speak.

I like the way you refer to it as a "perfect storm".
A perfect storm still requires a set of conditions to achieve the "perfect".

I don't know how well we can separate all the conditions to figure out the ones that have the most influence.
Since we are dealing with individuals with different environmental conditions, it could be even harder to identify specifics and corrective actions.
Attempting to reverse engineer the solution, may be pie in the sky depending on how systemic the problems are.

Well, one thing ALL of these murderers have in common is that they were all on or were recently on some heavy duty psychiatric medications. The government apparently hasn't felt the need to fund any studies into any relationships between pumping kids up with these psychiatric meds and incidents of violence. It is pretty well known that teens who were on Zoloft had felt an urge to kill and that was blamed on a "side effect" of Zoloft.

I recall a story of a boy who was suffering from relatively minor mental health issues, who was put on Zoloft and ended up killing both of his grandparents.

 

[ChrisL]

A lot of parents nowadays also do not really want to be "parents." They want to "have kids" but not actually be a parent. I can't tell you how many parents I see just stick an iPAD or a iPhone in their 3 or 4-year-old kids' faces while pushing them in the stroller. They will do ANYTHING to get them to shut up besides disciplining them. I watch this and I think, "this cannot be healthy."

 

[Hiryuu]

Well, one thing ALL of these murderers have in common is that they were all on or were recently on some heavy duty psychiatric medications. The government apparently hasn't felt the need to fund any studies into any relationships between pumping kids up with these psychiatric meds and incidents of violence. It is pretty well known that teens who were on Zoloft had felt an urge to kill and that was blamed on a "side effect" of Zoloft.

I recall a story of a boy who was suffering from relatively minor mental health issues, who was put on Zoloft and ended up killing both of his grandparents.

Where I am certainly against the idea of over-prescribing medications, that's one area where we do find conflict.

The medications have been proven to be effective in numerous cases.
There are clear warnings on the packaging indicating it necessary to monitor the behavior of the person prescribed.
Side effects vary with the individual, and violence, mood swings or suicidal thoughts are boldly noted.

It is a matter of recognizing when what you are doing is not achieving the required/desired goal.
That burden, and the burden of addressing those failures, requires active participation and the desire look for an alternative method.

 

[ChrisL]

And the kids are totally oblivious to anything else that is going on around them. ALL of their attention and concentration is focused on that iPhone. This is an age (3 or 4 years old) where they are just beginning to learn all of their socialization skills. Common sense alone (without any studies needed) should tell us how BAD this is for kids.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, one thing ALL of these murderers have in common is that they were all on or were recently on some heavy duty psychiatric medications. The government apparently hasn't felt the need to fund any studies into any relationships between pumping kids up with these psychiatric meds and incidents of violence. It is pretty well known that teens who were on Zoloft had felt an urge to kill and that was blamed on a "side effect" of Zoloft.

I recall a story of a boy who was suffering from relatively minor mental health issues, who was put on Zoloft and ended up killing both of his grandparents.

Where I am certainly against the idea of over-prescribing medications, that's one area where we do find conflict.

The medications have been proven to be effective in numerous cases.
There are clear warnings on the packaging indicating it necessary to monitor the behavior of the person prescribed.
Side effects vary with the individual, and violence, mood swings or suicidal thoughts are boldly noted.

It is a matter of recognizing when what you are doing is not achieving the required goal.
That burden, and the burden of addressing those failures, requires active participation and the desire look for an alternative method.

Well, psychiatry used to be about finding out what is the underlying issue and treating that issue with therapy and SOMETIMES medication (some people may have a chemical imbalance and need meds), but it just seems that doctors are more than happy to just write a prescription and call it good.

 

[ChrisL]

You know what I'm saying though? Kids don't actually "cope" with anything. Feeling sad or depressed? There's a "feel good" pill for that. Don't bother trying to work through or actually cope with your issues, just take a pill and make it go away instead.

 

[boedicca]

I don't want to talk politics or guns on this subject because guns have been around for hundreds of yrs and politics even longer ......when I was in high school kids would drive to school with rifles and shot guns hanging on gun racks and you never heard about someone getting shot much less dozens being injured or killed ......so instead of arguing over the weapons used or not used in these mass killings I would like opinions on what motivates todays kids to commit acts of evil that was unheard of 30yrs ago ? what has changed ? what is different about the way kids think today ?

Differences:

1. Destruction of the nuclear family structure in which boys had dads at home to teach them how to become responsible men.
2. The Great Society programs that encouraged #1 by paying teenage girls to be unwed mothers.
3. Prog takeover of public schools and the ensuing transformation of education programs into Prog indoctrination.
4. Identity politics that have enabled #3 to eliminate proper discipline in schools.
5. The demonization of men which has resulted in treating little boys like deformed girls and drugging them with ADHDs.
6. Social Media which is fucking up children's minds.

For starters.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm so glad my son was an "outdoor kid." He loved going to the swamp and catching fish and frogs and turtles and snakes. God, I don't think there is a critter that escaped him. We have had many "pets" over the years!