What is the difference between WWII and Liberation of Iraq???

[velvtacheeze]

The difference was we obliterated our enemy and WENT HOME after ww2. In Iraq we pussy footed around and stayed behind teying to play Mr Rodgers...Won't you be my neighbor

We went home? We don't have bases in Germany and Japan to this very day? What's the matter with you? Are you stupid?

 

[velvtacheeze]

The BIGGEST difference is Americans in WWII would NEVER accuse their OWN soldiers as these traitor,idiots did:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "The war is lost, the surge is not accomplishing anything "

U.S. Rep. John Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”

Senator Kerry (D) "American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children."

Durbin (D) "must have been done by Nazis, Soviets"--action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
Senator Obama said "troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians,"

Americans in WWII were much smarter then to HELP the enemy by calling American troops "Terrorists" Civilian killers"...
WWII Americans would NEVER consider making such statements as they would with common sense KNOW that the enemy would use those statements!
ONLY idiots in America today much like many on this board DON"T comprehend the simple fact the enemy loved to have those statements!
And as I've written before a Harvard study showed that:

A Harvard study found here THE "EMBOLDENMENT EFFECT"

"Are insurgents in Iraq emboldened by voices in the news media expressing dissent or calling for troop withdrawals from Iraq?
The short answer is YES!!!
according to Radha Iyengar, a Robert Wood Johnson Scholar in health policy research at Harvard and Jonathan Monten of the Belfer Center at the university's Kennedy School of Government.

STUDY ABSTRACT
Are insurgents affected by information on US casualty sensitivity?
Using data on attacks and variation in access to international news across Iraqi provinces, we identify an “emboldenment” effect by comparing the rate of insurgent
attacks in areas with higher and lower access to information about U.S news after public statements critical of the war.
We find in periods after a spike in war-critical statements, insurgent attacks increases by 5-10 percent.

Only Americans today are so stupid as the above traitors show by calling our troops equal to Nazis, the Soviets!
To me... that shows how absolutely without a shred of common sense, smarts these people are!

Kerry the dick was one of MANY DEMOCRATS that called for Saddam's removal which unless you are a real idiot you don't accomplish without some resistance from Saddam!

"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ....
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ....
"Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.

Trying to blame the war's critics for losing the war is a failed debate tactic that went down in defeat in the 2006 elections.

The war never should have been fought, and the US voters realized that liberals had been right all along.

It's not liberals' fault for having been right about what a mistake the Iraq War would be.

This debate was over years ago, and your side lost. Get over it.

 

[healthmyths]

Iraq was an illegal war of choice that killed thousands of innocent people, it doesn't matter who killed them. They are not more or less dead based on who killed them. Had we not attacked Iraq, they would be alive.

It also wasted billions of dollars that our kids have to pay back.

There is no defense of the Iraq War that is not laughable. The GOP lost its majority in 2006 because the US voter decided that liberal critics of the war had been right all along, and McCain and Romney lost because they refused to admit Iraq was a mistake, and failed to promise to not repeat the mistake.

A) So when Saddam signed the 1991 Cease Fire... you think it was just a joke and the USA said... that's OK Saddam you don't have to abide by the agreement you signed!
Are you that naive ? I don't think your car loan people would have you thumb your nose at the signed documents that said if you renegade on any your car is repo'd!
But it was OK for Saddam to do the following in spite of signing the "1991 Cease Fire" that kept him alive??
Newsweek January 11, 1999
Saddam + Bin Laden? America's two enemies are courting.
By Christopher Dickey, Gregory Vistica, and Russell Watson

In the no-fly zones of northern and southern Iraq, Saddam Hussein's gunners blindly fired surface-to-air missiles at patrolling American and British warplanes. In Yemen, terrorists seized a group of British Commonwealth and American tourists, and four of the hostages died in a shootout. In Tel Aviv, the US Embassy abruptly closed down after receiving a terrorist threat. Perhaps it was just a typical week in the Middle East. But in a region where no one puts much faith in blind coincidence, last week's conjunction of Iraqi antiaircraft fire and terrorism aimed at the countries that had just bombed Iraq convinced some that a new conspiracy was afoot.

Here's what is known so far: Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas -- assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. US sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two US embassies in Africa last summer. US intelligence has had reports of contacts between low-level agents. Saddam and bin Laden have interests -- and enemies -- in common. Both men want US military forces out of Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden has been calling for all-out war on Americans, using as his main pretext Washington's role in bombing and boycotting Iraq. Now bin Laden is engaged in something of a public-relations offensive, having granted recent interviews, one for NEWSWEEK. He says "any American who pays taxes to his government" is a legitimate target.
Freedom Agenda - Quotes and Facts on Iraq

SO what did you say about "ILLEGAL WAR"???

Second... NOW it doesn't matter who killed the 100,000 innocent Iraqis??? NOW that there is proof that you people that have for years used the phrase "Bush killed 100,000 Iraqis.."

Third... So Saddam stays in power the USA looks the other way as SADDAM by continued ignoring the sanctions allows 2,073,000 children to starve over the past 18 years!
That's OK?


Lady... logic doesn't work with you so how about compassion???

YOU surely must have some compassion for people like these that suffered from Saddam and his sick sons??

Ahmad was Uday's chief executioner. Last week, as Iraqis celebrated the death of his former boss and his equally savage younger brother Qusay, he nervously revealed a hideous story. His instructions that day in 1999 were to arrest the two 19-year-olds on the campus of Baghdad's Academy of Fine Arts and deliver them at Radwaniyah. On arrival at the sprawling compound, he was directed to a farm where he found a large cage. Inside, two lions waited. They belonged to Uday. Guards took the two young men from the car and opened the cage door. One of the victims collapsed in terror as they were dragged, screaming and shouting, to meet their fate. Ahmad watched as the students frantically looked for a way of escape. There was none. The lions pounced. 'I saw the head of the first student literally come off his body with the first bite and then had to stand and watch the animals devour the two young men. By the time they were finished there was little left but for the bones and bits and pieces of unwanted flesh,' he recalled last week."
-- Sunday Times, London, July 27, 2003


"Ali would then draw out a pair of pliers and a sharp knife. Gripping the tongue with pliers, he would slice it up with the knife, tossing severed pieces into the street. "'Those punished were too terrified to move, even though they knew I was about to chop off their tongue,' said Ali in his matter-of-fact voice. 'They would just stand there, often praying and calling out for Saddam and Allah to spare them. By then it was too late.

"'I would read them out the verdict and cut off their tongue without any form of anaesthetic. There was always a lot of blood. Some offenders passed out. Others screamed in pain. They would then be given basic medical assistance in an ambulance which would always come with us on such punishment runs. Then they would be thrown in jail.'"

-- Fedayeen Saddam member interviewed in The Sunday Times (London), April 20, 2003
Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

In a recent Frontline documentary, a woman who fled Iraq recounted how she and others had been forced to witness the public beheadings of 15 women who had been rounded up for prostitution and other crimes against the state. One of the women was a doctor who had been misreported as speaking against the regime. "They put her head in a trash can," she said.

In 1987, Mr. Jaiyashy and a thousand other inmates were transferred to an outdoor prison camp. There, they were allowed a visit with their relatives, so long as they said nothing of their lives in prison. Mr. Jaiyashy's parents came, hoping he might still be alive. He remembers the day all the families came. "There was so much crying. We called it the crying day."

But of course the USA and Bush did FAR FAR WORSE RIGHT???

 

[rdean]

Check out the governments in Europe and the government in Iraq. What people ended up with tells a lot about how it happened.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Do most of you think the US military methodically, systematically plan to "air raid villages and killing civilians"?

Do most of you think that of the 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths almost all were done by the US military?

If you do, why? Why would you think YOUR fellow Americans would methodically, systematically, without hesitation shoot innocent men,women children?

Why would you believe that most of the 100,000 Iraqi deaths were at the hands of Americans... and not the terrorists? WhY?

I do NOT believe our military has ever Methodically and without any forethought planned the destruction of civilians.

Yet many of you blame the US military for most of the 100,000 Iraqi deaths! And if you do not only do I feel sorry for you but you are dead wrong!

When are you going to pick up a gun and go to Iraq, asshole?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The difference was we obliterated our enemy and WENT HOME after ww2. In Iraq we pussy footed around and stayed behind teying to play Mr Rodgers...Won't you be my neighbor

Umm... we never went home, bud. We've been there for 70 years.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We're a nation with something like five thousand nuclear weapons, not to mention our unmatched conventional forces, and yet our 'leaders' were able to convince Americans that we were in danger of Saddam Hussein becoming the next Adolph Hitler,

with all the consequences that implied.

Saddam lasted a few weeks against us in 1991 and was much weaker in 2003, and still GW Bush and Co. were able to sell an image of him and his country as a dire threat to the world.

How could so many have fallen for that?

 

[healthmyths]

We're a nation with something like five thousand nuclear weapons, not to mention our unmatched conventional forces, and yet our 'leaders' were able to convince Americans that we were in danger of Saddam Hussein becoming the next Adolph Hitler,

with all the consequences that implied.

Saddam lasted a few weeks against us in 1991 and was much weaker in 2003, and still GW Bush and Co. were able to sell an image of him and his country as a dire threat to the world.

How could so many have fallen for that?

Sorry to say with ALL their information resources and their combined intellectually capability.. they were manipulated by that cunning YET dumb GWB!
But you with your limited resources and obvious psychic ability YOU knew better oh mighty one who lives in your parents basement!
YES YOU were so prescient to see that GWB had planted bombs HIMSELF on WTC buildings.. ordered CIA NOT to tell FBI... yea that's the ticket!
AND YOU knew all along how all this would turn out.

WELL what are you doing sitting in your parents basement?
Why aren't you leading some influential think tank putting out 100% accurate predictions... better yet.. WHY are you wasting your valuable intelligence on this lowly board?

Seriously your knowledge is right up there with Obama's if not more!
What a waste of your intellect. Your insights! We all bow to your God like knowledge.. neigh you are a god just like Evan Thomas monikered Obama.."sort of a god" above us all!

 

[NYcarbineer]

We're a nation with something like five thousand nuclear weapons, not to mention our unmatched conventional forces, and yet our 'leaders' were able to convince Americans that we were in danger of Saddam Hussein becoming the next Adolph Hitler,

with all the consequences that implied.

Saddam lasted a few weeks against us in 1991 and was much weaker in 2003, and still GW Bush and Co. were able to sell an image of him and his country as a dire threat to the world.

How could so many have fallen for that?

Sorry to say with ALL their information resources and their combined intellectually capability.. they were manipulated by that cunning YET dumb GWB!
But you with your limited resources and obvious psychic ability YOU knew better oh mighty one who lives in your parents basement!
YES YOU were so prescient to see that GWB had planted bombs HIMSELF on WTC buildings.. ordered CIA NOT to tell FBI... yea that's the ticket!
AND YOU knew all along how all this would turn out.

WELL what are you doing sitting in your parents basement?
Why aren't you leading some influential think tank putting out 100% accurate predictions... better yet.. WHY are you wasting your valuable intelligence on this lowly board?

Seriously your knowledge is right up there with Obama's if not more!
What a waste of your intellect. Your insights! We all bow to your God like knowledge.. neigh you are a god just like Evan Thomas monikered Obama.."sort of a god" above us all!

I happily concede that my time spent on this board is a waste. It's pretty much the only vice I have, having outgrown all the other ones.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Iraq was an illegal war of choice that killed thousands of innocent people, it doesn't matter who killed them. They are not more or less dead based on who killed them. Had we not attacked Iraq, they would be alive.

It also wasted billions of dollars that our kids have to pay back.

There is no defense of the Iraq War that is not laughable. The GOP lost its majority in 2006 because the US voter decided that liberal critics of the war had been right all along, and McCain and Romney lost because they refused to admit Iraq was a mistake, and failed to promise to not repeat the mistake.

A) So when Saddam signed the 1991 Cease Fire... you think it was just a joke and the USA said... that's OK Saddam you don't have to abide by the agreement you signed!
Are you that naive ? I don't think your car loan people would have you thumb your nose at the signed documents that said if you renegade on any your car is repo'd!
But it was OK for Saddam to do the following in spite of signing the "1991 Cease Fire" that kept him alive??
Newsweek January 11, 1999
Saddam + Bin Laden? America's two enemies are courting.
By Christopher Dickey, Gregory Vistica, and Russell Watson

In the no-fly zones of northern and southern Iraq, Saddam Hussein's gunners blindly fired surface-to-air missiles at patrolling American and British warplanes. In Yemen, terrorists seized a group of British Commonwealth and American tourists, and four of the hostages died in a shootout. In Tel Aviv, the US Embassy abruptly closed down after receiving a terrorist threat. Perhaps it was just a typical week in the Middle East. But in a region where no one puts much faith in blind coincidence, last week's conjunction of Iraqi antiaircraft fire and terrorism aimed at the countries that had just bombed Iraq convinced some that a new conspiracy was afoot.

Here's what is known so far: Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas -- assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. US sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two US embassies in Africa last summer. US intelligence has had reports of contacts between low-level agents. Saddam and bin Laden have interests -- and enemies -- in common. Both men want US military forces out of Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden has been calling for all-out war on Americans, using as his main pretext Washington's role in bombing and boycotting Iraq. Now bin Laden is engaged in something of a public-relations offensive, having granted recent interviews, one for NEWSWEEK. He says "any American who pays taxes to his government" is a legitimate target.
Freedom Agenda - Quotes and Facts on Iraq

SO what did you say about "ILLEGAL WAR"???

Second... NOW it doesn't matter who killed the 100,000 innocent Iraqis??? NOW that there is proof that you people that have for years used the phrase "Bush killed 100,000 Iraqis.."

Third... So Saddam stays in power the USA looks the other way as SADDAM by continued ignoring the sanctions allows 2,073,000 children to starve over the past 18 years!
That's OK?


Lady... logic doesn't work with you so how about compassion???

YOU surely must have some compassion for people like these that suffered from Saddam and his sick sons??

Ahmad was Uday's chief executioner. Last week, as Iraqis celebrated the death of his former boss and his equally savage younger brother Qusay, he nervously revealed a hideous story. His instructions that day in 1999 were to arrest the two 19-year-olds on the campus of Baghdad's Academy of Fine Arts and deliver them at Radwaniyah. On arrival at the sprawling compound, he was directed to a farm where he found a large cage. Inside, two lions waited. They belonged to Uday. Guards took the two young men from the car and opened the cage door. One of the victims collapsed in terror as they were dragged, screaming and shouting, to meet their fate. Ahmad watched as the students frantically looked for a way of escape. There was none. The lions pounced. 'I saw the head of the first student literally come off his body with the first bite and then had to stand and watch the animals devour the two young men. By the time they were finished there was little left but for the bones and bits and pieces of unwanted flesh,' he recalled last week."
-- Sunday Times, London, July 27, 2003


"Ali would then draw out a pair of pliers and a sharp knife. Gripping the tongue with pliers, he would slice it up with the knife, tossing severed pieces into the street. "'Those punished were too terrified to move, even though they knew I was about to chop off their tongue,' said Ali in his matter-of-fact voice. 'They would just stand there, often praying and calling out for Saddam and Allah to spare them. By then it was too late.

"'I would read them out the verdict and cut off their tongue without any form of anaesthetic. There was always a lot of blood. Some offenders passed out. Others screamed in pain. They would then be given basic medical assistance in an ambulance which would always come with us on such punishment runs. Then they would be thrown in jail.'"

-- Fedayeen Saddam member interviewed in The Sunday Times (London), April 20, 2003
Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

In a recent Frontline documentary, a woman who fled Iraq recounted how she and others had been forced to witness the public beheadings of 15 women who had been rounded up for prostitution and other crimes against the state. One of the women was a doctor who had been misreported as speaking against the regime. "They put her head in a trash can," she said.

In 1987, Mr. Jaiyashy and a thousand other inmates were transferred to an outdoor prison camp. There, they were allowed a visit with their relatives, so long as they said nothing of their lives in prison. Mr. Jaiyashy's parents came, hoping he might still be alive. He remembers the day all the families came. "There was so much crying. We called it the crying day."

But of course the USA and Bush did FAR FAR WORSE RIGHT???

The Bush War on Iraq made things worse for both Iraq and the US. This is not something that's debated often, because only dead enders support the failed Iraq War.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The difference was we obliterated our enemy and WENT HOME after ww2. In Iraq we pussy footed around and stayed behind teying to play Mr Rodgers...Won't you be my neighbor

Umm... we never went home, bud. We've been there for 70 years.

You're right, we occupied Japan for a decade.

Wait wait.....no we didn't

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The difference was we obliterated our enemy and WENT HOME after ww2. In Iraq we pussy footed around and stayed behind teying to play Mr Rodgers...Won't you be my neighbor

We went home? We don't have bases in Germany and Japan to this very day? What's the matter with you? Are you stupid?

You know god damn well what I ment. You fools can avoid the truth if you like but we DIDN'T occupy Japan.

 

[tjvh]

What is the difference between WWII and Liberation of Iraq???

Emperor Hirohito launched a sneak attack on the sovereign nation of the United States and delivered a declaration of war the next day. Three days later, Germany declared war on the United States.

Emperor Bush launched a sneak attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq. No declaration of war was ever delivered.

You do realize there was such a thing as a coalition and a U.S. congress, and that Iraq was violating the precious U.N. sanctions liberals hold so dear? And anyone who thinks they didn't have WMD's should read UNSCOM 1441 again, and look up the Al Samoud 2 missile and pay close attention to the max range as dictated by Res. 1441. That is all.

 

[Bfgrn]

What is the difference between WWII and Liberation of Iraq???

Emperor Hirohito launched a sneak attack on the sovereign nation of the United States and delivered a declaration of war the next day. Three days later, Germany declared war on the United States.

Emperor Bush launched a sneak attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq. No declaration of war was ever delivered.

You do realize there was such a thing as a coalition and a U.S. congress, and that Iraq was violating the precious U.N. sanctions liberals hold so dear? And anyone who thinks they didn't have WMD's should read UNSCOM 1441 again, and look up the Al Samoud 2 missile and pay close attention to the max range as dictated by Res. 1441. That is all.

Addressed it. Bush LIED.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7420812-post22.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7421513-post36.html

 

[ScienceRocks]

A lie is knowing for a fact something and saying something else. He didn't know one way or the other for sure.

 

[healthmyths]

We're a nation with something like five thousand nuclear weapons, not to mention our unmatched conventional forces, and yet our 'leaders' were able to convince Americans that we were in danger of Saddam Hussein becoming the next Adolph Hitler,

with all the consequences that implied.

Saddam lasted a few weeks against us in 1991 and was much weaker in 2003, and still GW Bush and Co. were able to sell an image of him and his country as a dire threat to the world.

How could so many have fallen for that?

Sorry to say with ALL their information resources and their combined intellectually capability.. they were manipulated by that cunning YET dumb GWB!
But you with your limited resources and obvious psychic ability YOU knew better oh mighty one who lives in your parents basement!
YES YOU were so prescient to see that GWB had planted bombs HIMSELF on WTC buildings.. ordered CIA NOT to tell FBI... yea that's the ticket!
AND YOU knew all along how all this would turn out.

WELL what are you doing sitting in your parents basement?
Why aren't you leading some influential think tank putting out 100% accurate predictions... better yet.. WHY are you wasting your valuable intelligence on this lowly board?

Seriously your knowledge is right up there with Obama's if not more!
What a waste of your intellect. Your insights! We all bow to your God like knowledge.. neigh you are a god just like Evan Thomas monikered Obama.."sort of a god" above us all!

I happily concede that my time spent on this board is a waste. It's pretty much the only vice I have, having outgrown all the other ones.

Then you really think you are a god???

 

[healthmyths]

Iraq was an illegal war of choice that killed thousands of innocent people, it doesn't matter who killed them. They are not more or less dead based on who killed them. Had we not attacked Iraq, they would be alive.

It also wasted billions of dollars that our kids have to pay back.

There is no defense of the Iraq War that is not laughable. The GOP lost its majority in 2006 because the US voter decided that liberal critics of the war had been right all along, and McCain and Romney lost because they refused to admit Iraq was a mistake, and failed to promise to not repeat the mistake.

A) So when Saddam signed the 1991 Cease Fire... you think it was just a joke and the USA said... that's OK Saddam you don't have to abide by the agreement you signed!
Are you that naive ? I don't think your car loan people would have you thumb your nose at the signed documents that said if you renegade on any your car is repo'd!
But it was OK for Saddam to do the following in spite of signing the "1991 Cease Fire" that kept him alive??
Newsweek January 11, 1999
Saddam + Bin Laden? America's two enemies are courting.
By Christopher Dickey, Gregory Vistica, and Russell Watson

In the no-fly zones of northern and southern Iraq, Saddam Hussein's gunners blindly fired surface-to-air missiles at patrolling American and British warplanes. In Yemen, terrorists seized a group of British Commonwealth and American tourists, and four of the hostages died in a shootout. In Tel Aviv, the US Embassy abruptly closed down after receiving a terrorist threat. Perhaps it was just a typical week in the Middle East. But in a region where no one puts much faith in blind coincidence, last week's conjunction of Iraqi antiaircraft fire and terrorism aimed at the countries that had just bombed Iraq convinced some that a new conspiracy was afoot.

Here's what is known so far: Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas -- assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. US sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two US embassies in Africa last summer. US intelligence has had reports of contacts between low-level agents. Saddam and bin Laden have interests -- and enemies -- in common. Both men want US military forces out of Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden has been calling for all-out war on Americans, using as his main pretext Washington's role in bombing and boycotting Iraq. Now bin Laden is engaged in something of a public-relations offensive, having granted recent interviews, one for NEWSWEEK. He says "any American who pays taxes to his government" is a legitimate target.
Freedom Agenda - Quotes and Facts on Iraq

SO what did you say about "ILLEGAL WAR"???

Second... NOW it doesn't matter who killed the 100,000 innocent Iraqis??? NOW that there is proof that you people that have for years used the phrase "Bush killed 100,000 Iraqis.."

Third... So Saddam stays in power the USA looks the other way as SADDAM by continued ignoring the sanctions allows 2,073,000 children to starve over the past 18 years!
That's OK?


Lady... logic doesn't work with you so how about compassion???

YOU surely must have some compassion for people like these that suffered from Saddam and his sick sons??

Ahmad was Uday's chief executioner. Last week, as Iraqis celebrated the death of his former boss and his equally savage younger brother Qusay, he nervously revealed a hideous story. His instructions that day in 1999 were to arrest the two 19-year-olds on the campus of Baghdad's Academy of Fine Arts and deliver them at Radwaniyah. On arrival at the sprawling compound, he was directed to a farm where he found a large cage. Inside, two lions waited. They belonged to Uday. Guards took the two young men from the car and opened the cage door. One of the victims collapsed in terror as they were dragged, screaming and shouting, to meet their fate. Ahmad watched as the students frantically looked for a way of escape. There was none. The lions pounced. 'I saw the head of the first student literally come off his body with the first bite and then had to stand and watch the animals devour the two young men. By the time they were finished there was little left but for the bones and bits and pieces of unwanted flesh,' he recalled last week."
-- Sunday Times, London, July 27, 2003


"Ali would then draw out a pair of pliers and a sharp knife. Gripping the tongue with pliers, he would slice it up with the knife, tossing severed pieces into the street. "'Those punished were too terrified to move, even though they knew I was about to chop off their tongue,' said Ali in his matter-of-fact voice. 'They would just stand there, often praying and calling out for Saddam and Allah to spare them. By then it was too late.

"'I would read them out the verdict and cut off their tongue without any form of anaesthetic. There was always a lot of blood. Some offenders passed out. Others screamed in pain. They would then be given basic medical assistance in an ambulance which would always come with us on such punishment runs. Then they would be thrown in jail.'"

-- Fedayeen Saddam member interviewed in The Sunday Times (London), April 20, 2003
Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

In a recent Frontline documentary, a woman who fled Iraq recounted how she and others had been forced to witness the public beheadings of 15 women who had been rounded up for prostitution and other crimes against the state. One of the women was a doctor who had been misreported as speaking against the regime. "They put her head in a trash can," she said.

In 1987, Mr. Jaiyashy and a thousand other inmates were transferred to an outdoor prison camp. There, they were allowed a visit with their relatives, so long as they said nothing of their lives in prison. Mr. Jaiyashy's parents came, hoping he might still be alive. He remembers the day all the families came. "There was so much crying. We called it the crying day."

But of course the USA and Bush did FAR FAR WORSE RIGHT???

The Bush War on Iraq made things worse for both Iraq and the US. This is not something that's debated often, because only dead enders support the failed Iraq War.

So all of the above atrocities are continuing but are WORSE?

There are people in Iraq today having their tongues cut out, their women raped in front of their husbands?
There are people who are putting heads in trash cans... today in Iraq???


And now for FACTS...

Iraq's gross domestic product per person is $7,200 (2012 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html

But of course THINGS were better under Saddam right???

From a study I've downloaded frequently during the Iraq period from 2006 up to last few years from the liberal biased
Brookings Institute! Iraq Index

Page 32 of the above In 2002 (Under Saddam) each Iraqi had $802 in GDP.
FACT...
Today at $7,200 per person that means since 2003 when it was $802 there has been almost a 900% increase in per person's share of GDP!
In other words a 900% increase... I'm saying that several times because you obviously can't understand a FACT!!!

And of course YOU obviously would be very happy for Saddam if he was still in power and from 1995 until today if he was still in power, 2,073,000 children would have
STARVED and that would be better then these Iraqi kids have it today?
You would be happy with 2,073,000 children starving because Saddam would still be in power?

However, Jeffrey Goldberg of Bloomberg asked a group of people who usually get forgotten when the question of the Iraq War comes up -- actual Iraqis.
To be sure, Goldberg asks certain Iraqis whose views might have been prejudiced due to the fact that they were tortured and had family members killed
under the 24 years of Saddam Hussein's misrule.
Oddly enough, with certain caveats about how the war was executed, the Iraqis who were asked think that it was worth it.

The Iraqi democracy that has emerged from the liberation and the grinding insurgency that followed is fragile, to say the least, and is not exactly altogether friendly to the West.
But it replaces a regime that, by some estimates, killed as many as a million of its own people, a number that even considering the fact that Hussein was in power for twice as long as Hitler, approaches Holocaust levels.
Why Iraqis Think that the Liberation of Iraq was Worth It - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[Wyatt earp]

Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us.

Roosevelt forced Japan to attack us, and furthermore he knew in advance Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed. He allowed 3000 Americans to be killed that day.

You still buy into that bullshit story?

 

[bripat9643]

Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us.

Roosevelt forced Japan to attack us, and furthermore he knew in advance Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed. He allowed 3000 Americans to be killed that day.

You still buy into that bullshit story?

It's not a story. It's fact.

 

[daveman]

Democrat President = Good War

Republican President = Bad War

That's really all it is.

The left would gladly have consigned any number of Iraqis to torture and death at the hands of the Hussein regime as long as George W. Bush didn't get his way. They don't, and never have, given a shit about the Iraqi people. It stems in part from the leftist love of brutal totalitarians, but mostly -- it's due to irrational hatred of Bush.