What is the logic of the travel ban?

[usmbguest5318]

Quite simply there is only policymaking illogic underpinning the ban. The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters. Outside of that, there is nothing rational about the design and execution of Trump's travel ban, except perhaps that it's structured so as to have no impact on Trump's own business exploits.

From the Cato Institute

Chance of Dying in an Attack by a Foreign-Born Terrorist, 1975-2015

U.S. Murder Rates, Excluding Foreign-Born Terrorism

All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Note: *1981 onward


Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, Excluding 9/11, 1975-2015

Foreign-Born Terrorists and Murders in Pre- and Post-9/11 United States

Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil, 1975-2015

Notes:

• A=asylee, F=student on F or M visa, I=illegal, K=K-1 fiancé(e), L=lawful permanent resident, R=refugee, T=tourist on B-visa, U=unknown, V=visa waiver program.
• * If multiple attackers, all casualties spread evenly across all attackers.

Observations:

• ZERO -->The number of Americans killed on US soil from 1975 to 2015 by citizens of the affected by Trump's travel ban.
• ZERO --> Number of the Muslim majority countries that have a Trump hotel, building or office that are on the list.
• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.
• 162 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Egypt, 1975 - 2015.
• 314 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of the UAE, 1975 - 2015.
• 2,369 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, 1975 - 2015.

What about illegal immigrants?

Only 10 illegal immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015. In other words, 2.65 million illegal immigrants entered the United States for each one who ended up being a terrorist.

Only one of those illegal immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American as he was one of the 1993 World Trade Center conspirators. The human cost of terrorism caused by illegal immigrants was thus $15,000,000 or equal to $0.57 cents per illegal immigrant. As a reminder, none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States illegally.
​

Additional Recommended Reading and Reference Materials/Tools:

• TERRORISM SINCE 9/11 The American Cases
  
• RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents
  • Search the database here
• Requiring a Nexus to National Security: Immigration, ‘Terrorist Activities,’ and Statutory Reform
  
• The Strategic National Risk Assessment in Support of PPD 8: A Comprehensive Risk-Based Approach toward a Secure and Resilient Nation
  
• The Quantitative Analysis of Terrorism and Immigration
  
• National Security Division Statistics on Unsealed International Terrorism and Terrorism-Related Convictions 9/11/01-3/18/10

 

[Mac1958]

The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters.

That's my guess. And Bannon's fingerprints are all over this. It's not a surprise he has such a powerful place in the White House, he clearly has won Trump's ear. Trump has even put him on the Security Council.
.

 

[OldLady]

It was my hope that the Trump administration would LOOK at the vetting procedures and policies in place BEFORE instituting any type of ban. LOOK at the actual areas where terrorists in this country have come from. I don't agree with the ban, but if there had to be one, it could have been done with a lot more thought and sense. It probably wouldn't have been done if the Trump administration had learned the facts.

 

[Mac1958]

It was my hope that the Trump administration would LOOK at the vetting procedures and policies in place BEFORE instituting any type of ban. LOOK at the actual areas where terrorists in this country have come from. I don't agree with the ban, but if there had to be one, it could have been done with a lot more thought and sense. It probably wouldn't have been done if the Trump administration had learned the facts.

Yes, and to make things a little worse, this is all being done in massive flurry, giving it the look of just throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks.

Trump & Bannon don't seem to understand that their actions are not happening in a vacuum, and have real global implications.
.

 

[OldLady]

It was my hope that the Trump administration would LOOK at the vetting procedures and policies in place BEFORE instituting any type of ban. LOOK at the actual areas where terrorists in this country have come from. I don't agree with the ban, but if there had to be one, it could have been done with a lot more thought and sense. It probably wouldn't have been done if the Trump administration had learned the facts.

Yes, and to make things a little worse, this is all being done in massive flurry, giving it the look of just throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks.

Trump & Bannon don't seem to understand that their actions are not happening in a vacuum, and have real global implications.
.

Peek at my thread "America First RU Sure" Good article there on the subject

 

[Iceweasel]

Peek at my thread "America First RU Sure" Good article there on the subject

No, it was a globalist propaganda piece by Krauthammer. I guess this and the last administration just picked the countries at random out of a hat?

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Peek at my thread "America First RU Sure" Good article there on the subject

No, it was a globalist propaganda piece by Krauthammer. I guess this and the last administration just picked the countries at random out of a hat?

I love watching these fools beg for more terrorists...helps ensure they never win again.

 

[MarcATL]

This is not going to end well folks.

It just.

Is not.

Going.

To end.

Well.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Geaux4it]

This is not going to end well folks.

It just.

Is not.

Going.

To end.

Well.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

But the movie runs 8 years... Quit fast forwarding to the credits

Good time to be American... again... finally

-Geaux

 

[TNHarley]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

 

[TNHarley]

And why do people scream about ti being unconstitutional? Can someone elaborate on that?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Quite simply there is only policymaking illogic underpinning the ban. The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters. Outside of that, there is nothing rational about the design and execution of Trump's travel ban, except perhaps that it's structured so as to have no impact on Trump's own business exploits.

From the Cato Institute

Chance of Dying in an Attack by a Foreign-Born Terrorist, 1975-2015

U.S. Murder Rates, Excluding Foreign-Born Terrorism

All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Note: *1981 onward


Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, Excluding 9/11, 1975-2015

Foreign-Born Terrorists and Murders in Pre- and Post-9/11 United States

Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil, 1975-2015

Notes:

• A=asylee, F=student on F or M visa, I=illegal, K=K-1 fiancé(e), L=lawful permanent resident, R=refugee, T=tourist on B-visa, U=unknown, V=visa waiver program.
• * If multiple attackers, all casualties spread evenly across all attackers.

Observations:

• ZERO -->The number of Americans killed on US soil from 1975 to 2015 by citizens of the affected by Trump's travel ban.
• ZERO --> Number of the Muslim majority countries that have a Trump hotel, building or office that are on the list.
• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.
• 162 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Egypt, 1975 - 2015.
• 314 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of the UAE, 1975 - 2015.
• 2,369 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, 1975 - 2015.

What about illegal immigrants?

Only 10 illegal immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015. In other words, 2.65 million illegal immigrants entered the United States for each one who ended up being a terrorist.

Only one of those illegal immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American as he was one of the 1993 World Trade Center conspirators. The human cost of terrorism caused by illegal immigrants was thus $15,000,000 or equal to $0.57 cents per illegal immigrant. As a reminder, none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States illegally.
​

Additional Recommended Reading and Reference Materials/Tools:

• TERRORISM SINCE 9/11 The American Cases
  
• RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents
  • Search the database here
• Requiring a Nexus to National Security: Immigration, ‘Terrorist Activities,’ and Statutory Reform
  
• The Strategic National Risk Assessment in Support of PPD 8: A Comprehensive Risk-Based Approach toward a Secure and Resilient Nation
  
• The Quantitative Analysis of Terrorism and Immigration
  
• National Security Division Statistics on Unsealed International Terrorism and Terrorism-Related Convictions 9/11/01-3/18/10

Totally agree. What is the intended goal of the arbitrary 90 day ban?
Nothing real can be accomplished in that timeframe except to score political points.

 

[peabody]

Quite simply there is only policymaking illogic underpinning the ban. The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters. Outside of that, there is nothing rational about the design and execution of Trump's travel ban, except perhaps that it's structured so as to have no impact on Trump's own business exploits.

From the Cato Institute

Chance of Dying in an Attack by a Foreign-Born Terrorist, 1975-2015

U.S. Murder Rates, Excluding Foreign-Born Terrorism

All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Note: *1981 onward


Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, Excluding 9/11, 1975-2015

Foreign-Born Terrorists and Murders in Pre- and Post-9/11 United States

Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil, 1975-2015

Notes:

• A=asylee, F=student on F or M visa, I=illegal, K=K-1 fiancé(e), L=lawful permanent resident, R=refugee, T=tourist on B-visa, U=unknown, V=visa waiver program.
• * If multiple attackers, all casualties spread evenly across all attackers.

Observations:

• ZERO -->The number of Americans killed on US soil from 1975 to 2015 by citizens of the affected by Trump's travel ban.
• ZERO --> Number of the Muslim majority countries that have a Trump hotel, building or office that are on the list.
• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.
• 162 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Egypt, 1975 - 2015.
• 314 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of the UAE, 1975 - 2015.
• 2,369 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, 1975 - 2015.

What about illegal immigrants?

Only 10 illegal immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015. In other words, 2.65 million illegal immigrants entered the United States for each one who ended up being a terrorist.

Only one of those illegal immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American as he was one of the 1993 World Trade Center conspirators. The human cost of terrorism caused by illegal immigrants was thus $15,000,000 or equal to $0.57 cents per illegal immigrant. As a reminder, none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States illegally.
​

Additional Recommended Reading and Reference Materials/Tools:

• TERRORISM SINCE 9/11 The American Cases
  
• RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents
  • Search the database here
• Requiring a Nexus to National Security: Immigration, ‘Terrorist Activities,’ and Statutory Reform
  
• The Strategic National Risk Assessment in Support of PPD 8: A Comprehensive Risk-Based Approach toward a Secure and Resilient Nation
  
• The Quantitative Analysis of Terrorism and Immigration
  
• National Security Division Statistics on Unsealed International Terrorism and Terrorism-Related Convictions 9/11/01-3/18/10

Trump is doing this to keep his base happy. They are scared of dark-skinned people. Trump used the threat of dark-skined people to get elected and promised he would keep them out.

Many of Trumps supporters have seen jobs lost and wages go down and they blame dark-skinned people instead of neoliberalism, but neoliberalism, not immigrants, is where they really should focus their anger.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

Exactly... the only one banned indefinitely is Syria... and that is a no brainer. The others are just 90 days till they figure out the vetting process.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Quite simply there is only policymaking illogic underpinning the ban. The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters. Outside of that, there is nothing rational about the design and execution of Trump's travel ban, except perhaps that it's structured so as to have no impact on Trump's own business exploits.

From the Cato Institute

Chance of Dying in an Attack by a Foreign-Born Terrorist, 1975-2015

U.S. Murder Rates, Excluding Foreign-Born Terrorism

All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Note: *1981 onward


Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, Excluding 9/11, 1975-2015

Foreign-Born Terrorists and Murders in Pre- and Post-9/11 United States

Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil, 1975-2015

Notes:

• A=asylee, F=student on F or M visa, I=illegal, K=K-1 fiancé(e), L=lawful permanent resident, R=refugee, T=tourist on B-visa, U=unknown, V=visa waiver program.
• * If multiple attackers, all casualties spread evenly across all attackers.

Observations:

• ZERO -->The number of Americans killed on US soil from 1975 to 2015 by citizens of the affected by Trump's travel ban.
• ZERO --> Number of the Muslim majority countries that have a Trump hotel, building or office that are on the list.
• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.
• 162 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Egypt, 1975 - 2015.
• 314 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of the UAE, 1975 - 2015.
• 2,369 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, 1975 - 2015.

What about illegal immigrants?

Only 10 illegal immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015. In other words, 2.65 million illegal immigrants entered the United States for each one who ended up being a terrorist.

Only one of those illegal immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American as he was one of the 1993 World Trade Center conspirators. The human cost of terrorism caused by illegal immigrants was thus $15,000,000 or equal to $0.57 cents per illegal immigrant. As a reminder, none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States illegally.
​

Additional Recommended Reading and Reference Materials/Tools:

• TERRORISM SINCE 9/11 The American Cases
  
• RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents
  • Search the database here
• Requiring a Nexus to National Security: Immigration, ‘Terrorist Activities,’ and Statutory Reform
  
• The Strategic National Risk Assessment in Support of PPD 8: A Comprehensive Risk-Based Approach toward a Secure and Resilient Nation
  
• The Quantitative Analysis of Terrorism and Immigration
  
• National Security Division Statistics on Unsealed International Terrorism and Terrorism-Related Convictions 9/11/01-3/18/10

Trump is doing this to keep his base happy. They are scared of dark-skinned people. Trump used the threat of dark-skined people to get elected and promised he would keep them out.

Many of Trumps supporters have seen jobs lost and wages go down and they blame dark-skinned people instead of neoliberalism, but neoliberalism, not immigrants, is where they really should focus their anger.

Who besides you, said anything about "dark skinned" people?

 

[OldLady]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

They are already being vetted and if there is a problem in the system in THIS country, it is with how the FBI and Homeland Security's hands are tied when they do encounter a possible terrorist. Look at the last few terrorist attacks; all of them had contact/investigation by the FBI/Homeland and were deemed not enough evidence to continue monitoring. The last one even got his gun back. THAT is where we seem to have an issue right now, not who is being let into the country from a war WE started.

 

[OldLady]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

Exactly... the only one banned indefinitely is Syria... and that is a no brainer. The others are just 90 days till they figure out the vetting process.

They could have figured it out without stopping immigration. No one dangerous has been let in so far. No one would have been let in during the next 90 days, either. It is all theatre, imo.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

They are already being vetted and if there is a problem in the system in THIS country, it is with how the FBI and Homeland Security's hands are tied when they do encounter a possible terrorist. Look at the last few terrorist attacks; all of them had contact/investigation by the FBI/Homeland and were deemed not enough evidence to continue monitoring. The last one even got his gun back. THAT is where we seem to have an issue right now, not who is being let into the country from a war WE started.

Wait, so you admit we have a problem and your answer is to just keep letting more in? Are you suicidal?

 

[peabody]

Quite simply there is only policymaking illogic underpinning the ban. The only thing that logically warrants Trump's following through with his ban is that he said he'd do it; thus it's a logical thing to do to appease his supporters. Outside of that, there is nothing rational about the design and execution of Trump's travel ban, except perhaps that it's structured so as to have no impact on Trump's own business exploits.

From the Cato Institute

Chance of Dying in an Attack by a Foreign-Born Terrorist, 1975-2015

U.S. Murder Rates, Excluding Foreign-Born Terrorism

All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Note: *1981 onward


Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, 1975-2015

Deadliness of All Terrorists, by Visa Category, Excluding 9/11, 1975-2015

Foreign-Born Terrorists and Murders in Pre- and Post-9/11 United States

Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil, 1975-2015

Notes:

• A=asylee, F=student on F or M visa, I=illegal, K=K-1 fiancé(e), L=lawful permanent resident, R=refugee, T=tourist on B-visa, U=unknown, V=visa waiver program.
• * If multiple attackers, all casualties spread evenly across all attackers.

Observations:

• ZERO -->The number of Americans killed on US soil from 1975 to 2015 by citizens of the affected by Trump's travel ban.
• ZERO --> Number of the Muslim majority countries that have a Trump hotel, building or office that are on the list.
• 1 in 3.6M per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a foreigner attacking on U.S. soil, 1975-2015.
• 1 in 3.64B per year --> Chance of an American being killed by a refugee attacking on U.S. soil, 1975 - 2015.
• 162 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Egypt, 1975 - 2015.
• 314 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of the UAE, 1975 - 2015.
• 2,369 --> The number of Americans killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, 1975 - 2015.

What about illegal immigrants?

Only 10 illegal immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015. In other words, 2.65 million illegal immigrants entered the United States for each one who ended up being a terrorist.

Only one of those illegal immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American as he was one of the 1993 World Trade Center conspirators. The human cost of terrorism caused by illegal immigrants was thus $15,000,000 or equal to $0.57 cents per illegal immigrant. As a reminder, none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States illegally.
​

Additional Recommended Reading and Reference Materials/Tools:

• TERRORISM SINCE 9/11 The American Cases
  
• RAND Database of Worldwide Terrorism Incidents
  • Search the database here
• Requiring a Nexus to National Security: Immigration, ‘Terrorist Activities,’ and Statutory Reform
  
• The Strategic National Risk Assessment in Support of PPD 8: A Comprehensive Risk-Based Approach toward a Secure and Resilient Nation
  
• The Quantitative Analysis of Terrorism and Immigration
  
• National Security Division Statistics on Unsealed International Terrorism and Terrorism-Related Convictions 9/11/01-3/18/10

Trump is doing this to keep his base happy. They are scared of dark-skinned people. Trump used the threat of dark-skined people to get elected and promised he would keep them out.

Many of Trumps supporters have seen jobs lost and wages go down and they blame dark-skinned people instead of neoliberalism, but neoliberalism, not immigrants, is where they really should focus their anger.

Who besides you, said anything about "dark skinned" people?

Stop pretending

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I thought the ban was put forth so they could try and figure out a way to actually vet these people. IMO, it makes complete sense.

Exactly... the only one banned indefinitely is Syria... and that is a no brainer. The others are just 90 days till they figure out the vetting process.

They could have figured it out without stopping immigration. No one dangerous has been let in so far. No one would have been let in during the next 90 days, either. It is all theatre, imo.

Wow, you should be head of Homeland Security since you know so much about every person that has entered the U.S.!