What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?

[CrusaderFrank]

Why does it matter? The FF merely used the militia as an example of the federal interest in the right to keep and bear arms. There was no question that Americans would retain their right to use firearms for defense, hunting and recreation and the rights were upheld in several Supreme Court decisions.

Many rights simply aren't written into the constitution.

In fact rights were written into the constitution if they had something to do with the govt, and only then.

The right to free speech was there so people could freely talk politics.
The right to KBA was there to act as the ultimate check and balance.

When you're that wrong, you should just stop talking

Fine, when I'm wrong, then I'll stop talking, okay?

Until then, I'll carry on.

Frank is a far right reactionary who will stop if he can free speech he does not like.

..and Jake still hasn't read the OP

 

[Wry Catcher]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Or we might consider this sage article on the distinction between the Organized Militia and the disorganized militia, as well as foreign terrorists and domestic terrorists:

NOTE: Not that I expect any of the willfully ignorant are likely to read and think about this link - but it is food for thought for those of us who actually think!

Mr. President, Please Call Up the Unorganized Militia For Inspection

 

[9thIDdoc]

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

If he has the states call up the militia, you betcha. Wink Wink.

 

[kaz]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

You have got to be joking.

So what's your answer?

 

[kaz]

"the militia" is simple. It's what's written in Article 1 Section 8.

The militia is merely an organisation that can be called up into federal service, has officers appointed by the state etc.

It is not just people who choose to get together armed. That would be dangerous and the Supreme Court has ruled this is not the case anyway.

So in the middle of the bill of rights, the founders decided to throw in a right of government? Why do you suppose the founders were afraid government was going to take it's own guns away exactly?

 

[JakeStarkey]

"the militia" is simple. It's what's written in Article 1 Section 8.

The militia is merely an organisation that can be called up into federal service, has officers appointed by the state etc.

It is not just people who choose to get together armed. That would be dangerous and the Supreme Court has ruled this is not the case anyway.

So in the middle of the bill of rights, the founders decided to throw in a right of government? Why do you suppose the founders were afraid government was going to take it's own guns away exactly?

"militia" is mentioned, bub, and the laws regulate it. End of subject.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

Did you open and bother to read the link?

 

[tyroneweaver]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

...and I wished I lived before 1890

 

[LOki]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Or we might consider this sage article on the distinction between the Organized Militia and the disorganized militia, as well as foreign terrorists and domestic terrorists:

NOTE: Not that I expect any of the willfully ignorant are likely to read and think about this link - but it is food for thought for those of us who actually think!

Mr. President, Please Call Up the Unorganized Militia For Inspection

There's no "disorganized militia" to discuss, Cupcake.

Of course you'll insist there is.

But only to avoid recognizing the legitimacy of the unorganized militia.

Which can be every bit as well-regulated as any militia not organized by the government.

 

[kaz]

Why does it matter? The FF merely used the militia as an example of the federal interest in the right to keep and bear arms. There was no question that Americans would retain their right to use firearms for defense, hunting and recreation and the rights were upheld in several Supreme Court decisions.

Many rights simply aren't written into the constitution.

In fact rights were written into the constitution if they had something to do with the govt, and only then.

The right to free speech was there so people could freely talk politics.
The right to KBA was there to act as the ultimate check and balance.

When you're that wrong, you should just stop talking

Fine, when I'm wrong, then I'll stop talking, okay?

Until then, I'll carry on.

Frank is a far right reactionary who will stop if he can free speech he does not like.

..and Jake still hasn't read the OP

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

Did you open and bother to read the link?

You always say that like those brain dead leftists links convince anyone of anything

 

[Wry Catcher]

"the militia" is simple. It's what's written in Article 1 Section 8.

The militia is merely an organisation that can be called up into federal service, has officers appointed by the state etc.

It is not just people who choose to get together armed. That would be dangerous and the Supreme Court has ruled this is not the case anyway.

So in the middle of the bill of rights, the founders decided to throw in a right of government? Why do you suppose the founders were afraid government was going to take it's own guns away exactly?

Shay's Rebellion ring a bell for you LOki and Watson?

"The uprising in Massachusetts began in the summer of 1786. The rebels tried to capture the federal arsenal at Springfield and harassed leading merchants, lawyers, and supporters of the state government. The state militia, commanded by Gen. Benjamin Lincoln, crushed the rebels in several engagements in the winter of 1787. Shays and the other principal figures of the rebellion fled first toRhode Island and then to Vermont.

"Although it never seriously threatened the stability of the United States, Shays’ Rebellion greatly alarmed politicians throughout the nation. Proponents of constitutional reform at the national level cited the rebellion as justification for revision or replacement of the Articles of Confederation, and Shays’ Rebellion figured prominently in the debates over the framing and ratification of the Constitution."

An unbiased mind can look at this incident and understand the vast difference between a bunch of malcontents and the National Guard. The former are the disorganized militia, a legal fiction, having no authority and no chain of command, vis a vis a well trained military force acting within the law, trained and under the authority of the COTUS and the Congress with officers who are appointed by elected officials.

 

[kaz]

"the militia" is simple. It's what's written in Article 1 Section 8.

The militia is merely an organisation that can be called up into federal service, has officers appointed by the state etc.

It is not just people who choose to get together armed. That would be dangerous and the Supreme Court has ruled this is not the case anyway.

So in the middle of the bill of rights, the founders decided to throw in a right of government? Why do you suppose the founders were afraid government was going to take it's own guns away exactly?

Shay's Rebellion ring a well Watson?

"The uprising in Massachusetts began in the summer of 1786. The rebels tried to capture the federal arsenal at Springfield and harassed leading merchants, lawyers, and supporters of the state government. The state militia, commanded by Gen. Benjamin Lincoln, crushed the rebels in several engagements in the winter of 1787. Shays and the other principal figures of the rebellion fled first toRhode Island and then to Vermont.

"Although it never seriously threatened the stability of the United States, Shays’ Rebellion greatly alarmed politicians throughout the nation. Proponents of constitutional reform at the national level cited the rebellion as justification for revision or replacement of the Articles of Confederation, and Shays’ Rebellion figured prominently in the debates over the framing and ratification of the Constitution."

An unbiased mind can look at this incident and understand the vast difference between a bunch of malcontents and the National Guard. The former are the disorganized militia, a legal fiction, having no authority and no chain of command vis a vis a well trained military force acting within the law, trained and under the authority ofelected officials who were appointed officers.

Yes, I see your point. The founders were terrified that government would take away it's own guns. So the bill of rights is actually 9 rights for citizens and one right of government. They wanted to make sure government wouldn't give up its guns, that would be such a threat to liberty

 

[tyroneweaver]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

You are living in Whoville.

Send him a box of dex, so he gets more oxygen to his brain

 

[JakeStarkey]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

...and I wished I lived before 1890

If you are living polygamously in a LDS environment, be careful. Two families I know are doing that, and now that the children are getting bigger, the pressures are increasing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Or we might consider this sage article on the distinction between the Organized Militia and the disorganized militia, as well as foreign terrorists and domestic terrorists:

NOTE: Not that I expect any of the willfully ignorant are likely to read and think about this link - but it is food for thought for those of us who actually think!

Mr. President, Please Call Up the Unorganized Militia For Inspection

There's no "disorganized militia" to discuss, Cupcake.

Of course you'll insist there is.

But only to avoid recognizing the legitimacy of the unorganized militia.

Which can be every bit as well-regulated as any militia not organized by the government.

The unorganized militia can be called into service muster at any time by the Governor. Any member who fails the call has become a criminal.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

You are living in Whoville.

Send him a box of dex, so he gets more oxygen to his brain

 

[tyroneweaver]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

...and I wished I lived before 1890

If you are living polygamously in a LDS environment, be careful. Two families I know are doing that, and now that the children are getting bigger, the pressures are increasing.

why would I need to be careful...you can't shoot worth shit any way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

...and I wished I lived before 1890

If you are living polygamously in a LDS environment, be careful. Two families I know are doing that, and now that the children are getting bigger, the pressures are increasing.

why would I need to be careful...you can't shoot worth shit any way.

Stop that. I wouldn't shoot you, although I am very good with a long arm, not too good with a hand gun. My friends are beginning to feel the cultural pressure of being polygamists in LDS wards. They should both move to Saratoga Springs or Eagle Mountain, and carry on. The problem is that one of men works in the Joseph Smith Building. He needs a new job.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

Liberals can't understand the Constitution