What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?

[9thIDdoc]

You think the President is a militia leader?
lol! Cute.

No, I didn't realize that was a link. So I actually went back and read it and found it to be a monumental waste of time. One man's wild fantasy based on erroneous assumptions. If you're going to post fantasy or opinion why not post your own. Then others can attempt to correct your errors.

That you disagree means nothing. The argument is very compelling and legally sound.

Did you bother to read it? It doesn't even pretend to be anything more than opinion based on (misconstrued) fact.

The fact is sound, the opinion is sound. The militia is subject to the government. The unorganized militia can be called to must for any or no reason.

Untrue. The unorganized militia is -by definition-unorganized. It has no leader, no allegiance, no mission, and no definite role of members. The unit acquires these things when it is formed into an organized unit. The President could form a militia unit (if he could get anyone to join) but he has no need since he is the CiC of the military already. Militia units may (and historically have) be formed by private individuals, cities, counties, states, the US, or from the general population for a particular stated purpose. They be "nationalized" (become part of the regular military).

 

[danielpalos]

SCOTUS - "It is clear that the Framers . . . counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty."

SCOTUS - 2nd amendment rights like 1st amendment rights pre-date the Constitution and therefore are not granted by the Constitution but protected by it.

Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Conditions, which predate our federal Constitution.

 

[9thIDdoc]

The government is required by the Constitution to regulate the militia.

The government is empowered by the Constitution to put the militia in good order according to a standard of proper functioning.

Disagree. Where exactly does the Constitution grant such authority?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The government is required by the Constitution to regulate the militia.

The government is empowered by the Constitution to put the militia in good order according to a standard of proper functioning.

Disagree. Where exactly does the Constitution grant such authority?

You disagree, So what.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The government could regulate any unorganized militia at any time.

The units could be called to muster and regulated.

 

[Arizona Willie]

What is the best kind of shotgun for home defense?

Pistols aren't worth crap unless you've really really trained with them.

Someone breaking into your home .... a person is too nervous to shoot a pistol with any accuracy.

========

OP confuses organized militia from unorganized militia, a doctrine that would develop over time.

OP is living in 1788.

...and I wished I lived before 1890

If you are living polygamously in a LDS environment, be careful. Two families I know are doing that, and now that the children are getting bigger, the pressures are increasing.

why would I need to be careful...you can't shoot worth shit any way.

Stop that. I wouldn't shoot you, although I am very good with a long arm, not too good with a hand gun. My friends are beginning to feel the cultural pressure of being polygamists in LDS wards. They should both move to Saratoga Springs or Eagle Mountain, and carry on. The problem is that one of men works in the Joseph Smith Building. He needs a new job.

 

[9thIDdoc]

The government could regulate any unorganized militia at any time.

The units could be called to muster and regulated.

Again, unorganized units do not exist until formed at which time they are organized. How do you go about mustering something that does not exist?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The government could regulate any unorganized militia at any time.

The units could be called to muster and regulated.

Again, unorganized units do not exist until formed at which time they are organized. How do you go about mustering something that does not exist?

You really don't get it. The governor can muster all of the militia and form and regulate units. Do you not have the IQ to get this?

 

[LOki]

The government is required by the Constitution to regulate the militia.

The government is empowered by the Constitution to put the militia in good order according to a standard of proper functioning.

Disagree. Where exactly does the Constitution grant such authority?

Disagree with Article 1 Section 8 then.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Times were different then.

People came to the Americas to own land.

They came to America to worship Christ as they wanted to, not what each monarchy told them to.

You're of course only partial correct. Your ignorance -- your knowledge of American history is truly fascinating. It would take a while to fill the lacuna there.

Many of the leading colonists came to America with land grants with the intentions of becoming wealthy and starting over. Religion? Sure the Pilgrims. But what of all of the Puritans and others?

The public schools don't teach this any longer because that would be endorsing a Christian religion.
All Pilgrims, Puritans, Quakers was forbidden to practice their religions in certain parts of Europe so they came to the new world in order to worship freely.

It's seems to be you who are ignorant of American history and especially the different protestant religions.
Pilgrims were Calvinists who were a Reformed Protestant group.

The Pilgrims had obtained permission from English authorities to settle in Virginia, they were to help teach the Natives about Christ.

Mayflower Compact.
In ye name of God Amen· We whose names are vnderwriten,
the loyall subjects of our dread soueraigne Lord King James
by ye grace of God, of great Britaine, franc, & Ireland king,
defender of ye faith, &cHaueing vndertaken, for ye glorie of God, and aduancemente
of ye christian ^faith and honour of our king & countrie, a voyage to
plant ye first colonie in ye Northerne parts of Virginia· doe
by these presents solemnly & mutualy in ye presence of God, and
one of another, couenant, & combine our selues togeather into a
ciuill body politick; for ye our better ordering, & preseruation & fur=
therance of ye ends aforesaid; and by vertue hearof, to enacte,
constitute, and frame shuch just & equall lawes, ordinances,
Acts, constitutions, & offices, from time to time, as shall be thought
most meete & conuenient for ye generall good of ye colonie: vnto
which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witnes
wherof we haue herevnder subscribed our names at Cap=
Codd ye ·11· of Nouember, in ye year of ye raigne of our soueraigne
Lord king James of England, france, & Ireland ye eighteenth
and of Scotland ye fiftie fourth. Ano: Dom ·1620·|

and here I thought you were only mildly retarded.

The Spanish came over to the America's pursing gold and land and whatever else -- and they were granted powers to evangelize the native populations: Roman Catholicism!!!

The Pilgrims sought a place to buy land and raise families while being able to practice their own brand of religious freedom -- a religious freedom that did not extend to others who differed. My own ancestors came to the America's in the 1600s and I have researched colonial American history as well as my ancestors. Nowhere have I found your nonsense, until later years in America when the Paranoid Style in American Politics raises it's ugly head -- that be the likes of you

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Until when and in what context? Did the institutions of National Guard fill a militia void or role"?

The National Guard is a military unit (as opposed to the "civilian" portion of the definition); not a militia or a militia unit.

"...and historically, when was the last time a militia saved the USA from something (not counting one man's grazing on federal lands)"

Militia units may, or may not, exist to "save" (or serve) the USA.
Who else-aside from the French- fought the British to allow the formation of the USA? No militias; no USA
Andrew Jackson led mostly militia units against the Indians, Spanish, and British during 1812..
Most forces on both sides of the "Civil War" were either militia or or "Nationalized" militia as was true of Mexican war.

If you don't see how the 'well regulated' Militia and the National Guard are equal, there is no talking sense to you. NG's are civilians in a sense. They practice (well regulated) and live primarily as civilians.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16


The Anti-Federalists feared that Congress would permit the militia to atrophy, leaving the states defenseless against the central government. In the Virginia ratifying convention, George Mason, while advocating a stronger central control over the militia, nevertheless argued that there was a danger that Congress could render the militia useless "by disarming them. Under various pretences, Congress may neglect to provide for arming and disciplining the militia; and the state governments cannot do it, for Congress has an exclusive right to arm them &c." The desire to prevent enfeebling state militias, which provided a check to a standing army, prompted the ratifying conventions to call for an amendment guaranteeing the right of citizens to bear arms. The First Congress responded, but the Second Amendment did not remove national control over armed forces or the state militias.

Federal preemption of state-militia legislation commenced very early in the history of the Republic. In Houston v. Moore (1820), the Supreme Court stated that the federal government's power over the militia "may be exercised to any extent that may be deemed necessary by Congress."
Guide to the Constitution​

You're more of a dime-store historian than a serious student of history. And no matter how much you brag about being in the military a few years out of your life, you suck on military matters

 

[JakeStarkey]

Peach, high schools and colleges, yes, teach the role of religious influence in motivating the Puritans and the Pilgrims.

 

[daws101]

selective fire firearms (AKA full automatic) most states do not prevent outright ownership. However the federal government has extremely stringent requirements for a private citizen to be able to pocess a selective fire firearm. They are also extremely expensive in the 20-30K$ range.

A federal Form 4 must be filled out to make an application for a selective fire firearm. You need to be 21 years of age to start this process. Then you need to be approved by your police cheif and pass an FBI background check and pay for this work and wait for many months.
I
In short selective fire fire arms are not easily obtainable by the public and they are limited to guns that have been made prior to 1986 since there is a ban on civilians buying newly manufactured selective fire fire arms.

Just goes to show that selective fire firearms are not something that are very common for private citizens.

 

[daws101]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

 

[daws101]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

none so far ,on the other hand the people who are proposing it, some on this site, have no problem with the idea willie Gohmert could be elected to the position of speaker of the house.

 

[LOki]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

One.

edit: Maybe not credible?

 

[daws101]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

One.

edit: Maybe not credible?

as I'm not proposing anything ,just stating a fact (that fact being, there are people in this country who want everyone to go packed)
my credibility is not at issue.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

none so far ,on the other hand the people who are proposing it, some on this site, have no problem with the idea willie Gohmert could be elected to the position of speaker of the house.

Loony Louie Gohmert has no chance of being Speaker. Jason Chaffetz has a chance, and that would be a disaster of a US House.

 

[daws101]

I got some of the details wrong the other day but the point still remains a bunch of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers will cause more carnage then they will stop.

How many credible people are proposing American become a nation of of untrained ,unskilled, civilian gunslingers?

none so far ,on the other hand the people who are proposing it, some on this site, have no problem with the idea willie Gohmert could be elected to the position of speaker of the house.

Loony Louie Gohmert has no chance of being Speaker. Jason Chaffetz has a chance, and that would be a disaster of the US.

you could be right.