What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?

[Procrustes Stretched]

"The Second Amendment is NOT sacrosanct. Only a complete fool believes unfettered access to 21st century armaments to untrained and possibly unstable populations is beneficial in a free society".

Thank God you were not one of our forefathers! We would still belong to the English king.

bullshit alert

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Why does it matter? The FF merely used the militia as an example of the federal interest in the right to keep and bear arms. There was no question that Americans would retain their right to use firearms for defense, hunting and recreation and the rights were upheld in several Supreme Court decisions.

Hell just froze over



caveat: colonies and states regulated weapons

 

[depotoo]

So an organization picked by the govt to defend itself from the govt? You have got to be kidding me.

"the militia" is simple. It's what's written in Article 1 Section 8.

The militia is merely an organisation that can be called up into federal service, has officers appointed by the state etc.

It is not just people who choose to get together armed. That would be dangerous and the Supreme Court has ruled this is not the case anyway.

Your militia that is "merely an organization" is the very essence of "people who choose to get together armed."

You have to remember that the militia is there to PROTECT the constitution.

Both from outside invaders and from the government.
In order to do this it needs to be organised.

What the founders didn't want were armed groups of people who would be a threat to the legitimate government and constitution. But they wanted an organised group that could take down an illegitimate government.

The balance is difficult. So they made "the militia" with the states having the power to appoint officers. The states couldn't have armies. But they had their militia, that could be called up to federal service when needed.

All this was designed to be the balance.

Having unorganised militias is not part of this plan. The "unorganised militia" at present is merely a manner to stop people demanding the right to be in the National Guard. The "unorganised militia" doesn't have state appointed leadership, so it can't actually do anything though.

 

[depotoo]

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." --Cesare Beccaria, On Crimes and Punishment, quoted by Thomas Jefferson in Commonplace Book

 

[depotoo]

The Constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press.”
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
Source a letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright in 1824

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
Thomas Jefferson's Hints for Americans

 

[depotoo]

“…It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control…The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them.”
Samuel Adams

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.

“The said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.”
Samuel Adams of Massachusetts — U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

 

[depotoo]

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation… Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
James Madison, Federalist Papers, #46 at 243-2

 

[depotoo]

“Have we the means of resisting disciplined armies, when our only defense, the militia is put in the hands of Congress?”
Patrick Henry (1736-1799), 3 Elliot Debates 48.

“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
Patrick Henry

 

[depotoo]

“Are we at least brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot Debates 168-169.

 

[hortysir]

The intent of the 2nd seemed to be security for the nation, not for each individual. Heller was decided 5-4, Con's v. Lib's; McDonald too was decided 5-4.

.

But...

What of, if any, beliefs of the founding generation concerning a 'right' to bear arms? After all we know not all rights were enumerated

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

What relation is there between Rights and governmental powers?

 

[Little-Acorn]

What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?


It's offered as a reason why the people's right to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

Even if it turned out that a militia wasn't necessary, the 2nd amendment would still require that government not infringe upon the people's right.

 

[depotoo]

Noah Webster American Patriot (1758-1843) (Author of America’s first dictionary)

“Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.”
Noah Webster (1758-1843) American patriot and scholar, author of the 1806 edition of the dictionary that bears his name, the first dictionary of American English usage.
Defined the militia similarly as “the effective part of the people at large.”
Source: An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787

 

[depotoo]

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The intent of the 2nd seemed to be security for the nation, not for each individual. Heller was decided 5-4, Con's v. Lib's; McDonald too was decided 5-4.

.

But...

What of, if any, beliefs of the founding generation concerning a 'right' to bear arms? After all we know not all rights were enumerated

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

What relation is there between Rights and governmental powers?

Governments can ignore rights, protect rights or take them away. It depends on what kind of government rules a people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?


It's offered as a reason why the people's right to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

Even if it turned out that a militia wasn't necessary, the 2nd amendment would still require that government not infringe upon the people's right.

yet colonial and state governments regulated weapons. The Constitution address what?

 

[depotoo]

And my above quote is so fitting-
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

and our founders knew that as they had experienced it in England, and wanted it not to be repeated here.

The intent of the 2nd seemed to be security for the nation, not for each individual. Heller was decided 5-4, Con's v. Lib's; McDonald too was decided 5-4.

.

But...

What of, if any, beliefs of the founding generation concerning a 'right' to bear arms? After all we know not all rights were enumerated

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

What relation is there between Rights and governmental powers?

Governments can ignore rights, protect rights or take them away. It depends on what kind of government rules a people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Noah Webster American Patriot (1758-1843) (Author of America’s first dictionary)

“Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.”
Noah Webster (1758-1843) American patriot and scholar, author of the 1806 edition of the dictionary that bears his name, the first dictionary of American English usage.
Defined the militia similarly as “the effective part of the people at large.”
Source: An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787

Shays‍ ' Rebellion was an armed uprising in Massachusetts (mostly in and around Springfield) during 1786 and 1787.

Washington and the Whiskey Rebellion - Bill of Rights Institute

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

And my above quote is so fitting-
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
Daniel Webster (1782-1852)

and our founders knew that as they had experienced it in England, and wanted it not to be repeated here.

The intent of the 2nd seemed to be security for the nation, not for each individual. Heller was decided 5-4, Con's v. Lib's; McDonald too was decided 5-4.

.

But...

What of, if any, beliefs of the founding generation concerning a 'right' to bear arms? After all we know not all rights were enumerated

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

What relation is there between Rights and governmental powers?

Governments can ignore rights, protect rights or take them away. It depends on what kind of government rules a people.

IDIOT!!!


Our founders did not experience anything in England. Most were American born colonists you dope

 

[depotoo]

“The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms has justly been considered the palladium of the liberties of the republic, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers, and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
1833 Joseph Story (1779-1845) U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1811-1845

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

“The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms has justly been considered the palladium of the liberties of the republic, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers, and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
1833 Joseph Story (1779-1845) U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1811-1845

Supreme Court Justices are the last word?

Cool: Obamacare