What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[thereisnospoon]

"Vote your conscience to be sure...but remember this IF the O is immacculated again. "

Oh I see your point. But in my eyes, regardless of who wins, not all that much changes. I'm too old to compromise my principles. If Romney wins, will more jobs be created? Maybe, but again, from my point of view, how many of those jobs will be higher paying with good benefits? I dont consider minimum wage jobs as an actual "job"

A GOP run Government will allow free but not fair trade to continue.

The Democrats, because they answer to labor, are bringing jobs back home, or at least trying to. And because they answer to labor, they are the party for higher wages,not lower. We all know Republicans think everyone but them makes too much.

Just remember, Republicans want us all to make less. Government employees, auto workers, right to work states, breaking unions, hiring illegals for jobs Americans won't do, outsourcing, sending jobs overseas, etc.

But no, not much will change. Not with the GOP's tactic of record breaking number of filabusters. Thanks Mitch McConnell. And funny the liberal media doesn't ever talk about this. Most people don't even realize how bad the GOP have acted since Obama took office. I don't know if it is racist though because they didn't treat Clinton much better.

Like Obama, he had to triangulate with the GOP to get anything done. But man did he go along with way too much. Deregulations, nafta, etc.

And because of this triangulation and because money/corporations own our politics, I actually agree with you.

But there is a huge difference between voting GOP and Dem. Two completely different directions. Go back to the Bush way or keep moving forward.

I must ask, where do you get your information from? Or is it "well everyone knows what I say is true"?

 

[sealybobo]

No I didnt say Obama was creating good paying jobs. I said no matter who wins, it isnt going to change all that much.

Think about GOP logic/reasoning.

Manufacturing jobs left at $35 hr and they applauded saying factory workers were being paid too much to push a broom. They attacked labor/unions as they sent those jobs overseas.

Now those jobs are coming back at $10 hr. So their attack on labor worked!

But now they want to point to those wages and blame Obama because the jobs aren't good paying jobs.

Don't forget. If you are in the GOP, you don't want high paying jobs. If Obama is only adding low paying jobs, you should support him because that's what you want too.

$10 per hour is appropriate for unskilled entry level work.
Union leadership convinces people that putting in time on a the same job for years entitles them to high wages. No.
There is no attack. It's a correction. Unions caused wages for menial work to spiral out of control.

So don't complain that Obama's only adding low paying jobs. The wages are where you want them to be. Low.

There is so much wrong with your attidude. Where do I begin.

Unions make companies pay their employees a fair wage. We have seen over the 20 years as union membership has gone down, so have all of our wages.

You'd be working 80 hour work weeks if it weren't for unions. Wake up middle class!!!

 

[sealybobo]

"Vote your conscience to be sure...but remember this IF the O is immacculated again. "

Oh I see your point. But in my eyes, regardless of who wins, not all that much changes. I'm too old to compromise my principles. If Romney wins, will more jobs be created? Maybe, but again, from my point of view, how many of those jobs will be higher paying with good benefits? I dont consider minimum wage jobs as an actual "job"

A GOP run Government will allow free but not fair trade to continue.

The Democrats, because they answer to labor, are bringing jobs back home, or at least trying to. And because they answer to labor, they are the party for higher wages,not lower. We all know Republicans think everyone but them makes too much.

Just remember, Republicans want us all to make less. Government employees, auto workers, right to work states, breaking unions, hiring illegals for jobs Americans won't do, outsourcing, sending jobs overseas, etc.

But no, not much will change. Not with the GOP's tactic of record breaking number of filabusters. Thanks Mitch McConnell. And funny the liberal media doesn't ever talk about this. Most people don't even realize how bad the GOP have acted since Obama took office. I don't know if it is racist though because they didn't treat Clinton much better.

Like Obama, he had to triangulate with the GOP to get anything done. But man did he go along with way too much. Deregulations, nafta, etc.

And because of this triangulation and because money/corporations own our politics, I actually agree with you.

But there is a huge difference between voting GOP and Dem. Two completely different directions. Go back to the Bush way or keep moving forward.

I must ask, where do you get your information from? Or is it "well everyone knows what I say is true"?

Don't get me started on the cutting and pasting. Typically first righties ask me to back up what I am saying and then they accuse me of being mr. cut copy and paste.

What exactly are you challanging?

 

[Liability]

Unions will strike a company into bankruptcy without a hint of concern for the loss of jobs.

Unions USED to have a legitimate purpose.

Unions often don't SERVE that purpose very well anymore.

 

[The T]

Think about GOP logic/reasoning.

Manufacturing jobs left at $35 hr and they applauded saying factory workers were being paid too much to push a broom. They attacked labor/unions as they sent those jobs overseas.

Now those jobs are coming back at $10 hr. So their attack on labor worked!

But now they want to point to those wages and blame Obama because the jobs aren't good paying jobs.

Don't forget. If you are in the GOP, you don't want high paying jobs. If Obama is only adding low paying jobs, you should support him because that's what you want too.

$10 per hour is appropriate for unskilled entry level work.
Union leadership convinces people that putting in time on a the same job for years entitles them to high wages. No.
There is no attack. It's a correction. Unions caused wages for menial work to spiral out of control.

So don't complain that Obama's only adding low paying jobs. The wages are where you want them to be. Low.

There is so much wrong with your attidude. Where do I begin.

Unions make companies pay their employees a fair wage. We have seen over the 20 years as union membership has gone down, so have all of our wages.

You'd be working 80 hour work weeks if it weren't for unions. Wake up middle class!!!

And what's to stop those low-level workers from changing thier own lot in life? That's right...wringing thier hands and demanding Gubmint do it for them.

Try laziness.

 

[sealybobo]

gotta go. be back later

 

[thereisnospoon]

I think what is happening is the middle class workers are starting to figure out that they are slowly but surely losing ground due to a concerted effort to keep them down. ANd I do not attribute this to only one party. Those with all the money and power want even more of it. As I have said there are those who do not believe class warfare should have a place in this nation. Too late, its only just begun.

Its been going on for a long time. Today is 1948 all over again. The robber barons have never stopped waging class warfare on us since we first won the civil war. We got the New Deal back with FDR and they have never stopped trying to repeal it. We got unions and they have been trying to break them ever since. They have just been more aggressive in their push the last 20 years.

The only times I find the Democrats are working against the middle class is when they either go along with the Republicans or when they act like Republicans and get in bed with the lobbyists. We need campaign finance reform and we need to overturn citizens united.

Sure the Dems take money from lobbyists too, but it has to be clear to everyone by now that the GOP are not the party for the middle class. Not even close. Just ask labor/unions. Who else but them represents the middle class?

Labor unions represent themselves. Unions are businesses and as such are in business to turn a profit. Unions are collectives. They create a group and pit them against their employer.
Unlike democrats/liberals, conservatives want everyone to be a success to the best of their ability.
You people want to create groups and pit them against each other.
Unions are 100% guilty of this. They create a group then set up an adversarial condition with the employer. That keeps people down.
Unions are no more responsible for the present day middle class than a doorknob.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A GOP run Government will allow free but not fair trade to continue.

The Democrats, because they answer to labor, are bringing jobs back home, or at least trying to. And because they answer to labor, they are the party for higher wages,not lower. We all know Republicans think everyone but them makes too much.

Just remember, Republicans want us all to make less. Government employees, auto workers, right to work states, breaking unions, hiring illegals for jobs Americans won't do, outsourcing, sending jobs overseas, etc.

But no, not much will change. Not with the GOP's tactic of record breaking number of filabusters. Thanks Mitch McConnell. And funny the liberal media doesn't ever talk about this. Most people don't even realize how bad the GOP have acted since Obama took office. I don't know if it is racist though because they didn't treat Clinton much better.

Like Obama, he had to triangulate with the GOP to get anything done. But man did he go along with way too much. Deregulations, nafta, etc.

And because of this triangulation and because money/corporations own our politics, I actually agree with you.

But there is a huge difference between voting GOP and Dem. Two completely different directions. Go back to the Bush way or keep moving forward.

Circular file time with that garbage. But kneepad support is all you seem to offer.

But all true.

For example, I know that corporations love free/unfair trade because then they can play countries against each other. If wages start to get too high or if labor organizes, they want to be able to just pick up and move to another broke ass country and this is not good for workers in any country.

This is why government needs to regulate corporations. And its funny because every country does except for America. Is that because the corporations think American workers are too expensive? Of course they do!

And it turns out we aren't that expensive. Or it turns out it isn't cheaper to make it over there and ship it home. But they don't tell us this because even though American workers are very productive, they'll never admit it.

I know this is all too deep for you to comprehend. I'm really talking at you and not to you because I know you don't understand.

Business is already heavily regulated by government.
Unionized labor created an imbalance between the needs of the workers and the capacities of the employers.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Ahhh, your 20 year old Burger King manager caught you again....

gotta go. be back later

 

[thereisnospoon]

"You are just mad your junkyard didn't make you millions like Romney's businesses, so the Gubermint needs to take more from him and trickle down some of that cash to you."

Nope. Not made at all. Happy as can be. Trickle down is a joke.

Instead of trickle down, what is your solution?
Do not use words such as "fair", "give" "owe" or "entitled".

Instead use words like 'hard work', and 'liberty'

They refuse to acknowledge those concepts.

 

[Cuyo]

Instead of trickle down, what is your solution?
Do not use words such as "fair", "give" "owe" or "entitled".

Instead use words like 'hard work', and 'liberty'

They refuse to acknowledge those concepts.

And you and Tank Engine refuse to acknowledge that tyranny and subjugation can be perpetrated by parties other than the government.

 

[initforme]

"Labor unions represent themselves. Unions are businesses and as such are in business to turn a profit. Unions are collectives. They create a group and pit them against their employer.
Unlike democrats/liberals, conservatives want everyone to be a success to the best of their ability.
You people want to create groups and pit them against each other. "

Same old rhetoric. I remember working for my first employer. Driving garbage truck I was. He asked me to work extra. I did for no extra compensation because I thought it was in the best interest of holding down my job. In today's work world, that would be the DUMBEST, MOST ASSINE thing I could ever do. The work market has changed. My message to todays workers is do what you are told to do, no extra, no more. Your employer sees you as a bad bad bad thing.

 

[initforme]

The market has shifted completely to worker VERSUS employer. Thats the way it is intended to be. Sure the employer can offer what they want, but nobody has to apply for the job. Its a two way street. Workers who dont constantly ask for more are always poor workers.

 

[initforme]

I remember my 3rd job. Working for a furniture manufacturing company. They paid me $17 an hour in the management area. After 6 years of working 6 - 7 days per week (ridiculous) and not watching my kids play their sports I had enough. I asked for a raise. They said no at first. I told them I was not coming in the next week. They said fine. Then they crawled on their knees when I quit and gave ZERO notice(proudest day of my working life for those of you business owners) and asked me to come back. I said Ok but called in sick for one week in which they called me in and we negotiated a much higher wage to which they said would strap them somewhat(they were lying). I got mine which I was entitled to. I then quit and started my own business. They closed down 2 years later. I celebrated when I heard of their demise. I learned how to treat my workers fairly from that experience. I learned to expect less profit and keep my workers and their work quality. It keeps customers.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Think about GOP logic/reasoning.

Manufacturing jobs left at $35 hr and they applauded saying factory workers were being paid too much to push a broom. They attacked labor/unions as they sent those jobs overseas.

Now those jobs are coming back at $10 hr. So their attack on labor worked!

But now they want to point to those wages and blame Obama because the jobs aren't good paying jobs.

Don't forget. If you are in the GOP, you don't want high paying jobs. If Obama is only adding low paying jobs, you should support him because that's what you want too.

$10 per hour is appropriate for unskilled entry level work.
Union leadership convinces people that putting in time on a the same job for years entitles them to high wages. No.
There is no attack. It's a correction. Unions caused wages for menial work to spiral out of control.

So don't complain that Obama's only adding low paying jobs. The wages are where you want them to be. Low.

There is so much wrong with your attidude. Where do I begin.

Unions make companies pay their employees a fair wage. We have seen over the 20 years as union membership has gone down, so have all of our wages.

You'd be working 80 hour work weeks if it weren't for unions. Wake up middle class!!!

Since when can the Office of the President add jobs?
I want low wages? Who are you to speak for me?
You fucking liberals work very hard at reading into statements things that are not there.
I never stated nor implies I desire low wages.
One more time genius....Unskilled entry level work earns the lowest pay rates.
Using your example, it is wholly illogical to pay a person who does menial maintenance tasks $35 per hour. Or even $15 per hour. Higher wages should be reserved for highly skilled and ambitious workers. "Putting in time" is NOT an example of ambition.
Here is an example....I have a company with 25 workers. There are 10 unskilled maintenance people...I have 10 semi skilled support people and 5 highly skilled people.
I am always looking to expand my business.
My philosophy is I want my unskilled people to want to learn about all aspects of my business so that they can be promoted to the higher paying jobs. I give them one year to show me which of them has the desire to move up. The ones that are comfortable with doing unskilled jobs are given fair warning that if they do not show me they want to improve their position in the business they face termination. Those that do show potential are retained and offered wage increases. They must grow. If they stagnate, I release them from my employ. Once I promote, I fill that job with a new person on the entry level.
What I am not going to do is allow a person to stay in an unskilled position for an extended period of time. I do not need them. This is wage ( cost) control and incentive.
Sink or swim. It's up to the workers.
That's the way it should be.

 

[initforme]

some of you just need to admit it. You disdain laborers and hard working people.

 

[The T]

some of you just need to admit it. You disdain laborers and hard working people.

As a hard working American? I object to this statement.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A GOP run Government will allow free but not fair trade to continue.

The Democrats, because they answer to labor, are bringing jobs back home, or at least trying to. And because they answer to labor, they are the party for higher wages,not lower. We all know Republicans think everyone but them makes too much.

Just remember, Republicans want us all to make less. Government employees, auto workers, right to work states, breaking unions, hiring illegals for jobs Americans won't do, outsourcing, sending jobs overseas, etc.

But no, not much will change. Not with the GOP's tactic of record breaking number of filabusters. Thanks Mitch McConnell. And funny the liberal media doesn't ever talk about this. Most people don't even realize how bad the GOP have acted since Obama took office. I don't know if it is racist though because they didn't treat Clinton much better.

Like Obama, he had to triangulate with the GOP to get anything done. But man did he go along with way too much. Deregulations, nafta, etc.

And because of this triangulation and because money/corporations own our politics, I actually agree with you.

But there is a huge difference between voting GOP and Dem. Two completely different directions. Go back to the Bush way or keep moving forward.

I must ask, where do you get your information from? Or is it "well everyone knows what I say is true"?

Don't get me started on the cutting and pasting. Typically first righties ask me to back up what I am saying and then they accuse me of being mr. cut copy and paste.

What exactly are you challanging?

You post statements as fact yet offer no links to prove your claims.
That begs the question from where do you get your information to make these conclusions.
One must ALWAYS provide proof of their claims. That's how it works.
Now, offering up opinion pieces from blogs and sources of the like are NOT proof. Once one posts a statement implying it to be factual, one must back up the claim with facts.
You are being challenged on the statements you posted earlier

 

[thereisnospoon]

Instead use words like 'hard work', and 'liberty'

They refuse to acknowledge those concepts.

And you and Tank Engine refuse to acknowledge that tyranny and subjugation can be perpetrated by parties other than the government.

Stay on point.

 

[The T]

I think what is happening is the middle class workers are starting to figure out that they are slowly but surely losing ground due to a concerted effort to keep them down. ANd I do not attribute this to only one party. Those with all the money and power want even more of it. As I have said there are those who do not believe class warfare should have a place in this nation. Too late, its only just begun.

Its been going on for a long time. Today is 1948 all over again. The robber barons have never stopped waging class warfare on us since we first won the civil war. We got the New Deal back with FDR and they have never stopped trying to repeal it. We got unions and they have been trying to break them ever since. They have just been more aggressive in their push the last 20 years.

The only times I find the Democrats are working against the middle class is when they either go along with the Republicans or when they act like Republicans and get in bed with the lobbyists. We need campaign finance reform and we need to overturn citizens united.

Sure the Dems take money from lobbyists too, but it has to be clear to everyone by now that the GOP are not the party for the middle class. Not even close. Just ask labor/unions. Who else but them represents the middle class?

Labor unions represent themselves. Unions are businesses and as such are in business to turn a profit. Unions are collectives. They create a group and pit them against their employer.
Unlike democrats/liberals, conservatives want everyone to be a success to the best of their ability.
You people want to create groups and pit them against each other.
Unions are 100% guilty of this. They create a group then set up an adversarial condition with the employer. That keeps people down.
Unions are no more responsible for the present day middle class than a doorknob.

Unions are Corporations that deal in labour...(heretofore to be referred to as big labour)...that are a money laundering arm for the Democrats.